Famous Five Lower - Singing Section v ICT

[Chorley Hibee]

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Most of the support don't need to know he exists.

Well if that is the case then there is no need for the position.

It's laughable we have a Supporter Liaison Officer who doesn't liaise with the support.

[Danderhall Hibs]

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Well if that is the case then there is no need for the position.

It's laughable we have a Supporter Liaison Officer who doesn't liaise with the support.

What is the role for? If I don’t know about it/who it is why/how would I be able to get in touch?

Or do they only contact you after you’ve complained to another part of the club?

[HibeeHibernian4]

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Yup.

And now they’ve decided they don’t like that place, then some people would like to see more long standing season ticket holders punted out their seats to make way for where they want to go this time.

Bottom line is, the atmosphere in the stadium is dictated largely by what’s going on on the pitch. The ground will be noisier when the team is doing a lot of attacking and playing good football.

This first bit is so disingenuous it hurts.

What do you reckon is more likely to have happened: the singing section went “aye we’ll take that practically empty section tucked away up in the corner of the Famous Five please”, or the club told them that they’d go to the block that had the fewest season tickets and thus would cause the least the amount of fuss?

The narrative of “oh the ultras are picking and choosing over everyone else” has been done to death on forums of many other clubs. Celtic, Rangers, Crystal Palace etc. The common thing that underpins the people who push this ***** is that they have no sense of the bigger picture.

What actually happened here is that the club, instead of picking the best solution at first that would’ve benefitted everyone in the long term, tried to find a halfway house compromise solution with the current location. It hasn’t worked out for obvious reasons such as acoustics and positioning. Don’t pretend that’s the fault of the section or that they’re demanding a new place and won’t like that one either.

And to quickly nip your “if what’s going on on the pitch is good the atmosphere will follow” myth, Aberdeen have had regular 2nd place finishes and their 2016-17 team was one of their best in recent memory. Did the atmosphere improve? No. Was it better atmosphere wise when they scraped past Dumbarton 1-0 in January because their chairman went out of the way to create an organised, active support behind the goals? Yes.

Your view of how atmosphere works is outdated. Look at the continent, look at America, they know that the way to improve atmospheres is to have sections that are dedicated to creating them. Most Hibs fans sit on their hands at home games, and the few of us in the East who do sing are almost viewed with suspicion by some. The entire culture has to change in Scotland, from the boardrooms, to the police, to the fans themselves. It has all become way too sanitised and frankly boring. We smugly call the EPL a tourist league, but I fail to see what it matters where somebody’s born if our own fans contribute just as little to the atmosphere as your average Anfield tourist.

[Chorley Hibee]

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What is the role for? If I don’t know about it/who it is why/how would I be able to get in touch?

Or do they only contact you after you’ve complained to another part of the club?

Not a clue, but from his title I'd guess that his role is to achieve a working relationship between the club and its supporters.

Given very few are even aware who he is, and that there seems to be no answer to the current FFL fiasco, then it's fair to question just what his remit entails?

Whatever it is, it certainly isn't working.

[Blaster]

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For league games. Less than 10% have taken up the option to buy their ticket for this cup tie, is that so hard for people to understand or respect the wishes of the rest of our support?

Since you seem to know, what’s my wishes? Just curious

[Barney McGrew]

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This first bit is so disingenuous it hurts.

What do you reckon is more likely to have happened: the singing section went “aye we’ll take that practically empty section tucked away up in the corner of the Famous Five please”, or the club told them that they’d go to the block that had the fewest season tickets and thus would cause the least the amount of fuss?

The narrative of “oh the ultras are picking and choosing over everyone else” has been done to death on forums of many other clubs. Celtic, Rangers, Crystal Palace etc. The common thing that underpins the people who push this ***** is that they have no sense of the bigger picture.

What actually happened here is that the club, instead of picking the best solution at first that would’ve benefitted everyone in the long term, tried to find a halfway house compromise solution with the current location. It hasn’t worked out for obvious reasons such as acoustics and positioning. Don’t pretend that’s the fault of the section or that they’re demanding a new place and won’t like that one either.

And to quickly nip your “if what’s going on on the pitch is good the atmosphere will follow” myth, Aberdeen have had regular 2nd place finishes and their 2016-17 team was one of their best in recent memory. Did the atmosphere improve? No. Was it better atmosphere wise when they scraped past Dumbarton 1-0 in January because their chairman went out of the way to create an organised, active support behind the goals? Yes.

Your view of how atmosphere works is outdated. Look at the continent, look at America, they know that the way to improve atmospheres is to have sections that are dedicated to creating them. Most Hibs fans sit on their hands at home games, and the few of us in the East who do sing are almost viewed with suspicion by some. The entire culture has to change in Scotland, from the boardrooms, to the police, to the fans themselves. It has all become way too sanitised and frankly boring. We smugly call the EPL a tourist league, but I fail to see what it matters where somebody’s born if our own fans contribute just as little to the atmosphere as your average Anfield tourist.

The sense of utter entitlement shines though. Even though the club have bent over backwards to give you an area to all stand in, it’s still not good enough.

Anyone that doesn’t follow your party line is ‘outdated’ and ‘has no sense of the bigger picture’, and ‘the entire culture has to change’.

Your group makes up a tiny fraction of the attendees at Easter Road, and like it or not you’re no more or no less important than any other person that turns up to watch the team on a Saturday afternoon or Wednesday nigh whether they have a drum, sing or don’t sing. Just because your group disagrees with how things currently are does not mean that large swathes of the support need to fall in with that. There’s plenty people who’ve been going to Easter Road since before any of you were born that probably like things the way they are.

You really need to start thinking about how you engage with other parts of the support as well as the club, IMHO.

[Chuck Rhoades]

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The sense of utter entitlement shines though.

Anyone that doesn’t follow your party line is ‘outdated’ and ‘has no sense of the bigger picture’, and ‘the entire culture has to change’.

Your group makes up a tiny fraction of the attendees at Easter Road, and like it or not you’re no more or no less important than any other person that turns up to watch the team on a Saturday afternoon or Wednesday nigh whether they have a drum, sing or don’t sing. Just because your group disagrees with how things currently are does not mean that large swathes of the support need to fall in with that. There’s plenty people who’ve been going to Easter Road since before any of you were born that probably like things the way they are.

The last thing we need is a divide between parts of our support either. Hibs could help things by better communication across the piece. They failed to communicate out the original plans, I see Since 1875 tried to at least do that. Then club u-turn after feedback from a couple of supporters.

Better engagement, planning and communication required.

[HibeeHibernian4]

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As far as I can see, the club has given quite a bit of leeway - they got to move to a different area of the ground when they all wanted seats together (the club even forcibly moved season ticket holders to make way for them), they’ve allowed various tifo displays and they even gave them priority/group tickets for some away games for a period.

What more do you expect them to do?

Your perception of fan culture is so hilariously warped if you think that it’s the ultras who benefit from tifos, rather than the players + the club. It suggests you know zero about this topic and should stay well clear of it to avoid further embarrassment.

[hibbysam]

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Since you seem to know, what’s my wishes? Just curious

I think you’ve missed the sarcasm of my post replying to someone who is presuming that no youngsters want the singing section beside them. The views of the support as a whole will be wide ranging when it comes to getting to the correct outcome, what shouldn’t be wide ranging is the fact the club should be looking to maximise sales and create a much better atmosphere, and in my opinion for cup games that won’t be anywhere near a sell out, closing top tiers and end sections is the way to do that, as well as getting rid of a family section that houses 2/300 at most come kick off time.

[Barney McGrew]

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Your perception of fan culture is so hilariously warped if you think that it’s the ultras who benefit from tifos, rather than the players + the club. It suggests you know zero about this topic and should stay well clear of it to avoid further embarrassment.

Wow. Just wow.

[Barney McGrew]

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The last thing we need is a divide between parts of our support either

Thats one thing we can agree on

[Andy74]

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This is such a false argument, up there with “the atmosphere’s good when the team plays well”. Look around you on a match day. Look how few people actually stand for 90 minutes, never mind sing. It’s not like I’m harking back to a bygone era, the atmosphere in 2016 was booming some games.

Yes, the singing section made a mistake moving (although that was influenced by some people attaching themselves to the group and causing trouble), but that doesn’t mean they should be stuck there “because it will upset fans if they move again”

Truthfully, I do not care if a few fans are upset about losing their seat, I do not care one bit. It doesn’t influence the team’s performance on the pitch, which atmosphere actually does. So yes, I would move every family who didn’t want to sing, there are plenty of places in the ground for that. There are only one or two logical places for a singing section to be situated, and behind the goals is one of them

If any of you are speaking with the club in his way then I don’t fancy your chances of getting much back.

[Chuck Rhoades]

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If any of you are speaking with the club in his way then I don’t fancy your chances of getting much back.

He’s nothing to do with the group.

[hibbyfraelibby]

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Your perception of fan culture is so hilariously warped if you think that it’s the ultras who benefit from tifos, rather than the players + the club. It suggests you know zero about this topic and should stay well clear of it to avoid further embarrassment.

...and you appear to have no perception of how arrogantly self entitled and obnoxious you are begining to sound. Step away from the keyboard.

[BroxburnHibee]

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The last thing we need is a divide between parts of our support either. Hibs could help things by better communication across the piece. They failed to communicate out the original plans, I see Since 1875 tried to at least do that. Then club u-turn after feedback from a couple of supporters.

Better engagement, planning and communication required.

Maybe they didnt communicate the 'plans' because nothing had actually been agreed?

At the moment it seems like there's only one point of view being posted as fact.

[HFC93]

From afar, the folk involved with the signing section have always struck me as rebel without a cause type chrachters. If they were a bit more diplomatic they might get their way a bit more.

[Chuck Rhoades]

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Maybe they didnt communicate the 'plans' because nothing had actually been agreed?

At the moment it seems like there's only one point of view being posted as fact.

Agreed. Which is why the club need to state their case.

[Blaster]

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I think you’ve missed the sarcasm of my post replying to someone who is presuming that no youngsters want the singing section beside them. The views of the support as a whole will be wide ranging when it comes to getting to the correct outcome, what shouldn’t be wide ranging is the fact the club should be looking to maximise sales and create a much better atmosphere, and in my opinion for cup games that won’t be anywhere near a sell out, closing top tiers and end sections is the way to do that, as well as getting rid of a family section that houses 2/300 at most come kick off time.

👍. For what it’s worth, my youngest son is in the family section and would love the singing section beside him! He also rarely misses any games.

My view is that the singing section would be best in the east and sure that’s what the majority who replied to the survey thought. However if they want to try the FF lower then it needs to be done properly for next season.

Trial it in the league cup group stages (if we are in them). State to season ticket holders in sections 19 & 20 that these will be used as singing section for cup games next season. They can join in or get first priority for seats elsewhere. But this has to be communicated in advance otherwise folk will quite rightly be unhappy

[Hibbyradge]

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Agreed. Which is why the club need to state their case.

Has anyone actually properly approached the club?

I very much doubt that any agreement was reached. It's even less likely that it was agreed verbally.

[Hibs90]

Hibs have an SLO? He/She seems to be anonymous. Celtic/Rangers/Hearts etc all have one that I'm aware of and they act like it and interact with fans on social media, e-mail, in person. I genuinely had no idea Hibs had one.

Why is he or she so anonymous?

[Peevemor]

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Well if that is the case then there is no need for the position.

It's laughable we have a Supporter Liaison Officer who doesn't liaise with the support.

Supporter's will contact the club for a variety of different reasons.

When you go to the contact section on the official site, here are the choices you are given.

Why do you need to know if there's an SLO or who he/she is?

[Peevemor]

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Agreed. Which is why the club need to state their case.

If the club had to respond every time somebody posted pish on here (myself included), there'd be more staff than fans.

[B.H.F.C]

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👍. For what it’s worth, my youngest son is in the family section and would love the singing section beside him! He also rarely misses any games.

I think this is quite an important point. Kids are probably the most likely to join in. When you talk about trying to engage kids and effectively turn them in to supporters, turning up to ER every second week and having a bit fun as opposed to rattling around a section that is half full at best, is more likely to do that IMO.

The area of the ground is surely big enough to serve both purposes.

[HibeeHibernian4]

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The sense of utter entitlement shines though. Even though the club have bent over backwards to give you an area to all stand in, it’s still not good enough.

Anyone that doesn’t follow your party line is ‘outdated’ and ‘has no sense of the bigger picture’, and ‘the entire culture has to change’.

Your group makes up a tiny fraction of the attendees at Easter Road, and like it or not you’re no more or no less important than any other person that turns up to watch the team on a Saturday afternoon or Wednesday nigh whether they have a drum, sing or don’t sing. Just because your group disagrees with how things currently are does not mean that large swathes of the support need to fall in with that. There’s plenty people who’ve been going to Easter Road since before any of you were born that probably like things the way they are.

You really need to start thinking about how you engage with other parts of the support as well as the club, IMHO.

If you read what I said, I sit/sometimes stand at the top of the East (44). I know a couple of people who used to be in the old Section 43 ultras group that sadly disbanded, but that’s as far as my involvement with any singing section goes.

The “entitlement” that you’re seeing is entirely a reflection on yourself. I don’t think it’d be unfair to suggest based on your posts that you’re of an older generation and maybe have an irrational dislike of the “youth these days”.

What I am telling you are objective truths. Atmosphere affects results. We as fans, and even the board, can’t control exactly what happens on the pitch. You know what we are in control of though? The atmosphere, and how best that can be created. It is another objective truth that the best, most vocal stands in world football are located directly behind the goals.

Simply put, atmosphere affects the outcomes of football matches to a varying degree. I think it was no coincidence for example that our home record against Celtic improved significantly when they and their Green Brigade IRA nonsense were cut down to half a stand a few seasons back.

If you agree on that, and concede that atmospheres do affect football matches, then surely you would like Hibs to have a good atmosphere, and therefore would like to see the club do what they can to accommodate this? It’s not preferential treatment because what the people in that current section are doing amounts to a pretty thankless task. And if it’s not a thankless task, then why does hardly anybody else in the ground (including many hundreds of people dotted around me in the south end of the East) want to sing?

[hibbyfraelibby]

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If the club had to respond every time somebody posted pish on here (myself included), there'd be more staff than fans.

...and they'd have to be moved to accommodate the South Leith Singing Sopranos who'd want their seats.

[Chorley Hibee]

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Supporter's will contact the club for a variety of different reasons.

When you go to the contact section on the official site, here are the choices you are given.

Why do you need to know if there's an SLO or who he/she is?

So you think there is no need for the support to be aware that we have a designated "Supporter Liaison Officer"?

Surely his title is a misnomer then?

As I mentioned previously, I would have thought a prerequisite of being "Supporter Liaison Officer" would be to make our support aware of his position and his remit.

Seemingly not though.

[HibeeHibernian4]

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From afar, the folk involved with the signing section have always struck me as rebel without a cause type chrachters. If they were a bit more diplomatic they might get their way a bit more.

If they want my advice then I think they should rebel far more. From everything I’ve read on here, no matter how many official channels they go through, the usual suspects will circle the wagons and find something to complain about.

[HibeeHibernian4]

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Why do you need to know if there's an SLO or who he/she is?

...because it’s a supporter’s liaison officer?...

[Hibbyradge]

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If they want my advice then I think they should rebel far more. From everything I’ve read on here, no matter how many official channels they go through, the usual suspects will circle the wagons and find something to complain about.

You're one of the complainants.

[Since452]

The Motherwell ultras never stop singing. Winning, drawing or losing. The atmosphere at Fir Park with around 5k is brilliant. That's mainly because the ultras are right next to the pitch not tucked away in an area where the acoustics are crap because touchline stand is hidden behind the corner of the stand they're in. How much has that contributed to them being 3rd in the league? Who knows but it won't be doing it any harm.

When our ultras were at the bottom of the east stand it was the best atmospheres in my 30 years going to Easter Road. Been said countless times but it just doesn't work in the corner of the FF upper. We know the acoustics of the South lower are good because we're outsung every second week so same rules would apply to the FF lower. A new place needs to be found and the FF lower would be perfect both acoustically and visually. Do people's seats really mean that much to them that they'd refuse to move somewhere else? Really? For one game where the stadium is going to be half empty? Personally I'd watch Hibs anywhere in the ground and would sacrifice my seat if I felt it was going to help the team.