Scottish Independence

[Hibbyradge]

Many a truth spoken in jest

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Does anybody really think using arcane tactics to achieve an objective will play well with the electorate?

As we saw in England, it just looks like people being smart arsed to get things in through the back door.

100% agree. Let’s let Boris Johnson be the one working against the people.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CloudSquall]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

As I've posted before, I'm fairly certain that the SNP know exactly how to take this through the courts. It could well involve texts that are 100s of years old but that makes no difference if they haven't been superseded.

I think Joanna Cherry will be leading that, I think they even quoted from the declaration of Arbroath in the prorogation case that won.

[cabbageandribs1875]

johnson has given the position of defence minister to James Heappey....

https://www.thenational.scot/politic...FXxxC5y-Ez4gTs

I SEE that Johnson has appointed James Heappey to the post of Defence Minister in his London-based Government. He had already shown preference to this individual by having him as His Parliamentary Private Secretary.
James Heappey was the MP who, during the 2017 election campaign, visited a class of sixth-form pupils in his constituency. When one Scottish girl told him she would vote for Scottish independence in a second referendum, he told her to “F*** off.”
He subsequently told another newspaper that “it was intended as a joke” and he “was deeply sorry for any offence caused.” Some joke – an adult using offensive language when a school pupil expresses an opinion with which he disagrees!
READ MORE: Calls for suspension of Tory candidate who told indy-backing Scottish teenager to "F*** off"
The girl told her father, who complained to the school, and it was the school who wrote a letter of apology. Heappey’s apologies followed the publicity his odious behaviour attracted.

[MartinfaePorty]

If tonight doesn't make you vote for independence, nothing will

Sent from my EML-L29 using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

So @BorisJohnson take a look at this. It seems this petition was rejected and advised that it is up to the people of #Scotland & not the UK Government or Parliament. We will have another #ScottishReferendum for #ScottishIndependence @theSNP #indyref2020 #Indyref2 @NicolaSturgeon https://t.co/OBpChDp8Hh

🤔😁🙏❤️

[Ozyhibby]

Pre the snp coming to power at Holyrood, Scotland would have been well represented with yellow dots.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cataplana]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Pre the snp coming to power at Holyrood, Scotland would have been well represented with yellow dots.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There must be some way to prove that.

[Moulin Yarns]

Remember the number of times we are told that it will be difficult to become a member of the EU.

We'll, evidence that some members of the EU would welcome Scotland with open arms.

Two years ago, we (50 politicians from across the EU and political spectrum) wrote a letter to the Scottish Parliament.

Maybe now is the moment to remind everyone in Scotland of our commitment:

Your future is for you to decide, but we will leave our door open. https://t.co/RrvU8HjCcM

[Just_Jimmy]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Hardcore Nationalists - which is pretty much all members - would take Scotland out of the UK on 50% plus 1. Many would like to do it without the tiresome need for a referendum - just look at social media for that.

An independent Scotland would face another 10 years of austerity just to get back to where it started the day before independence. That's fine if it's what people want - nuts, but fine. To think it would be a good idea to strike out on that path with the country divided internally on essentially a 50/50 vote is bonkers.

This for me is key. It's ridiculous that such a massive change can be implemented by one more person voting yes than voting no.

The reason Brexit has been such a mess is because it scraped through. The country is basically 50-50 on the issue still.

These massive constitutional issues should have a minimum 60-65% positive before they change anything. Otherwise they are just destructive.

That's not pro or anti indy or brexit. It's pro not using referendums to cause social division and causing wounds that take decades to heal.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[ronaldo7]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

This for me is key. It's ridiculous that such a massive change can be implemented by one more person voting yes than voting no.

The reason Brexit has been such a mess is because it scraped through. The country is basically 50-50 on the issue still.

These massive constitutional issues should have a minimum 60-65% positive before they change anything. Otherwise they are just destructive.

That's not pro or anti indy or brexit. It's pro not using referendums to cause social division and causing wounds that take decades to heal.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

How about 80% of MPs at a recent election, who stood for independence. 👍

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

This for me is key. It's ridiculous that such a massive change can be implemented by one more person voting yes than voting no.

The reason Brexit has been such a mess is because it scraped through. The country is basically 50-50 on the issue still.

These massive constitutional issues should have a minimum 60-65% positive before they change anything. Otherwise they are just destructive.

That's not pro or anti indy or brexit. It's pro not using referendums to cause social division and causing wounds that take decades to heal.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

Slowly but surely goalposts are being moved.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bangkok Hibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Slowly but surely goalposts are being moved.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes more people talking about this, the media get on board and all of a sudden it's written into law. FFS Scotland get out now before it's too late.

[Just_Jimmy]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

How about 80% of MPs at a recent election, who stood for independence.

Oh they've got a mandate to ask the question. There's no doubt about that.

What I'm saying is that I disagree with the concept that such material change should be made with a 51% winning number. I believe that a substantial percentage of the voting public should be required to impact such change.

I think that was a big issue with brexit and I personally feel like Scotland would be best served if the vote for independence was an over whelming landslide. That doesn't mean it won't be - but it should be because it automatically kills any argument about second votes etc.

Again - I'm not anti Indy. I'm simply sick fed up of infighting across the UK on all levels. Referendums must be decisive.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[Just_Jimmy]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Slowly but surely goalposts are being moved.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yes more people talking about this, the media get on board and all of a sudden it's written into law. FFS Scotland get out now before it's too late.

See my previous reply to Ronaldo.

I'm not anti indy at all. I personally believe it's silly to make such monumental constitutional change on the back of a 51-49/52-48% vote.

It's the same for brexit. It should never have been progressed because as a "advisory referendum" it only told us that the country was really 50-50. Even after all the campaigning.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

See my previous replay to Ronaldo.

I'm not anti indy at all. I personally believe it's silly to make such monumental constitutional change on the back of a 51-49/52-48% vote.

It's the same for brexit. It should never have been progressed because as a "advisory referendum" it only told us that the country was really 50-50. Even after all the campaigning.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

I disagree. Brexit was voted for by the majority and it deserves to go through or at the least be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
You can’t ignore a majority. That’s why the Lib Dem’s policy of just revoking article 50 failed.
50%+1 is all that should be needed in any binary poll.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bangkok Hibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I disagree. Brexit was voted for by the majority and it deserves to go through or at the least be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
You can’t ignore a majority. That’s why the Lib Dem’s policy of just revoking article 50 failed.
50%+1 is all that should be needed in any binary poll.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Absolutely, otherwise the minority will usually win.

[Just_Jimmy]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I disagree. Brexit was voted for by the majority and it deserves to go through or at the least be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
You can’t ignore a majority. That’s why the Lib Dem’s policy of just revoking article 50 failed.
50%+1 is all that should be needed in any binary poll.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's fine in sentiment. However as we all know, it'll mean the argument and division drags on for another 10 years.

If Scotland votes 51-49 to stay in the union will that end talk of independence? We both know it won't.

If it votes 51-49 to leave then it'll be dragged out for years and then we'll be made to vote again.

Ideal situation would be 65% either way which would end the debate and allow progression.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

That's fine in sentiment. However as we all know, it'll mean the argument and division drags on for another 10 years.

If Scotland votes 51-49 to stay in the union will that end talk of independence? We both know it won't.

If it votes 51-49 to leave then it'll be dragged out for years and then we'll be made to vote again.

Ideal situation would be 65% either way which would end the debate and allow progression.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

The debate never ends. It’s what living in a democracy is all about. Have you ever known a time when there wasn’t debate about where the country is going? Have you ever known a time when the opposition never claimed the government weren’t absolutely destroying the country? And yet here we are, all still here and with constantly rising living standards.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Callum_62]

Brexit should have had to confirmed by the 4 nations voting on it

I'm think Sturgeon wanted this but was ignored by Cameron

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[Hibrandenburg]

Anyone else on social media noticing a change in the direction of the sometimes obscene abuse of politicians? Up until 2 weeks ago it was full of derogatory memes and propaganda aimed at Corbyn, Abbott and Swinson, now the abuse has been turned on the Scottish Independence movement and Nicola Sturgeon in particular. The British right wing are now concentrating their efforts on demonising Sturgeon and it's relentless.

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Brexit should have had to confirmed by the 4 nations voting on it

I'm think Sturgeon wanted this but was ignored by Cameron

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

Yip. The UK Union is poorly constructed with all 4 nations having different rights. It’s why we are better off as part of the EU rather than the UK. The EU gives more power to small nations.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Anyone else on social media noticing a change in the direction of the sometimes obscene abuse of politicians? Up until 2 weeks ago it was full of derogatory memes and propaganda aimed at Corbyn, Abbott and Swinson, now the abuse has been turned on the Scottish Independence movement and Nicola Sturgeon in particular. The British right wing are now concentrating their efforts on demonising Sturgeon and it's relentless.

The SNP won’t mind them whipping up British nationalism.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Just_Jimmy]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The debate never ends. It’s what living in a democracy is all about. Have you ever known a time when there wasn’t debate about where the country is going? Have you ever known a time when the opposition never claimed the government weren’t absolutely destroying the country? And yet here we are, all still here and with constantly rising living standards.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Of course not. Which is fine when the level of debate is higher than;

Brexit is great.
Naw it's no. It's pish.

Or indy is great.
Naw it's not. It's pish.

I guess that's a different argument however.

Standards of living have never been higher for some. For others it's abject poverty, disenfranchisement and little hope.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[grunt]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The reason Brexit has been such a mess is because it scraped through. The country is basically 50-50 on the issue still.

I understand that you were making the point about simple majorities and the closeness of the result. But that isn't why Brexit is such a mess - it's a mess because it's a hugely damaging and retrograde step for the country, and the majority of those charged with implementing it know this. So they're trying to put the UK's hand into the fire at the same time as trying to mitigate the pain. They can't, and now we're flying headlong towards no deal we'll soon enough discover how painful it's going to be.

For this reason, Scotland really needs to get its act together and join the EU. If we get a majority of 50% +1, I'd take that in a heartbeat.

[The Modfather]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The reason Brexit has been such a mess is because it scraped through. The country is basically 50-50 on the issue still.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

Not sure I fully agree. I think Brexit is such a mess and divisive because even now we don’t know what Brexit actually means. We should have had the referendum, then a vote on the different versions of Brexit. A separate debate could be had about whether none of the above and revoke Brexit was an option or not. Although I’m not sure it would be particularly fair as the remainders would all vote one way and the leavers dilute their vote on the various visions of Brexit.

I think Indyref 2 should be the same. A black and white question, and then a vote on what version on independence we want.

[grunt]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I think Indyref 2 should be the same. A black and white question, and then a vote on what version on independence we want.

I'm not being funny here, but what different versions of independence do you have in mind?

[The Modfather]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'm not being funny here, but what different versions of independence do you have in mind?

I’ve thought about it in any great detail tbh, but the main issues I can think of are;

• EU membership
• Trident
• Renewable energy appetite
• Tax appetite
• Monarchy (we can but hope anyway)

Etc etc

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I’ve thought about it in any great detail tbh, but the main issues I can think of are;

• EU membership
• Trident
• Renewable energy appetite
• Tax appetite
• Monarchy (we can but hope anyway)

Etc etc

Just the sort of things an independent country would debate anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Skol]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

How about 80% of MPs at a recent election, who stood for independence. 👍

But they didnt stand for independence,. They stood on an anti brexit ticket.