General election 2019

[Hibernia&Alba]

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I don't buy this deterrent argument anyway

Didn't do Iraq any good when they supposedly had WMDs

In other news the Tories are SURGING in Scotland according to the express and a latest poll

I always say, never trust a paper that uses capitalisation in there headlines

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I think the deterrent argument is a nonsense. A deterrent against whom? Are we safer from nuclear attack than those countries which don't have nuclear weapons e.g. Germany, Italy, Canada, Australia etc? Of course not. It's a ridiculous argument to suggest we somehow have added security.

[Scorrie]

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I think the deterrent argument is a nonsense. A deterrent against whom? Are we safer from nuclear attack than those countries which don't have nuclear weapons e.g. Germany, Italy, Canada, Australia etc? Of course not. It's a ridiculous argument to suggest we somehow have added security.

Spot on. The deterrent argument is complete nonsense. A waste of 120bn or however much it is.

[Smartie]

The nuclear weapons give us a seat at the big boys' table when certain decisions are being made.

Possibly not be sniffed at if you trust yourself to use that influence in a good way but we're talking about sending Boris on our behalf FFS.........

[Cataplana]

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The nuclear weapons give us a seat at the big boys' table when certain decisions are being made.

Possibly not be sniffed at if you trust yourself to use that influence in a good way but we're talking about sending Boris on our behalf FFS.........

Countries like Holland, and the Scandinavians don't have that seat, but their citizens are better off than ours.

[Smartie]

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Countries like Holland, and the Scandinavians don't have that seat, but their citizens are better off than ours.

I agree with you, I'm not a fan of nuclear weapons.

Just putting forward what is probably the most compelling reason for hanging onto them.

[Cataplana]

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I agree with you, I'm not a fan of nuclear weapons.

Just putting forward what is probably the most compelling reason for hanging onto them.

And it's not very compelling at all, when you think about it.

[Smartie]

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And it's not very compelling at all, when you think about it.

I don't know. Having at least one adult in the room whilst Donald Trump waves his tadger around might not be a bad thing at all (you could say the same about any number of other warmongers).

[Cataplana]

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I don't know. Having at least one adult in the room whilst Donald Trump waves his tadger around might not be a bad thing at all (you could say the same about any number of other warmongers).

Wishful thinking, I feel. We are minor members of an ever expanding club. We have very little say.

[The Modfather]

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The nuclear weapons give us a seat at the big boys' table when certain decisions are being made.

Possibly not be sniffed at if you trust yourself to use that influence in a good way but we're talking about sending Boris on our behalf FFS.........

I’m not sure Nuclear Weapons are a deal breaker to get us the seat at the big boys table. We’ll be involved in those kind discussions either way IMO, and won’t have any less sway than we do now in reality without nuclear weapons. If we were to use the billions Trident costs to grow the economy, invest in new technologies and renewable energy etc we may end up having bigger influence than through having something that sits invisible in the background and is actually a lead weight around the country as it won’t, and shouldn’t, ever be used.

Appreciate you’re merely putting forward a possible alternative argument rather than defending Trident.

[JeMeSouviens]

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I don't know. Having at least one adult in the room whilst Donald Trump waves his tadger around might not be a bad thing at all (you could say the same about any number of other warmongers).

The way to do that would surely be some sort of co-operative body where the European states could come together and agree a joint policy in our mutual interest. Not sure why nobody's thought of that before ...

[JeMeSouviens]

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I’m not sure Nuclear Weapons are a deal breaker to get us the seat at the big boys table. We’ll be involved in those kind discussions either way IMO, and won’t have any less sway than we do now in reality without nuclear weapons. If we were to use the billions Trident costs to grow the economy, invest in new technologies and renewable energy etc we may end up having bigger influence than through having something that sits invisible in the background and is actually a lead weight around the country as it won’t, and shouldn’t, ever be used.

Appreciate you’re merely putting forward a possible alternative argument rather than defending Trident.

They are one of, if not the most important, reasons the UK still has one of the 5 permanent seats (and a veto) on the UN security council. That, and a bluewater navy and a global strike capability and other things that haven't been sensible strategy for decades. A significant chunk of the UK establishment still thinks its defending the East India company,

[Hibbyradge]

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I see what you are saying but the house itself doesn't use the services provided by the Council, the occupants do. 4 occupants will obviously create more rubbish to be taken away than a single occupancy household.

I live in a small hamlet with no footpaths, streetlighting, sewers, I don't have children at school but I contribute to all these services through the Council Tax.

A tax on property is not an equitable form of taxation because you might have a widow in a 4 bedroom house who pays the same as the 5 person household next door (less the single occupancy rebate)

All IMHO of course

Bring back the Poll Tax ...

[Hibernia&Alba]

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The way to do that would surely be some sort of co-operative body where the European states could come together and agree a joint policy in our mutual interest. Not sure why nobody's thought of that before ...

[Moulin Yarns]

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Bring back the Poll Tax ...

or...

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Not really. Everyone was hit with the same amount in the poll tax, a personal tax which is related to the ability to pay is very different.

[Moulin Yarns]

Meanwhile at the Tory manifesto launch....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGUW...ature=emb_logo

[Frankhfc]

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Bring back the Poll Tax ...

The Greens policy is very similar to Thatcher's Poll Tax but it is different in implementation as its a sliding scale based upon earnings instead of a one size fits all tax sum.

[lapsedhibee]

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Meanwhile at the Tory manifesto launch....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGUW...ature=emb_logo

The slaverer's slaverer.

[Frankhfc]

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I guess it will be up to the first Independently elected Scottish government to decide.

J

I disagree. There's not a hope in hell's chance of an Independent Scotland retaining foreign nuclear weapons of mass destruction either on our soil or in our sea no matter how much we were bribed to in my opinion.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Meanwhile at the Tory manifesto launch....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGUW...ature=emb_logo

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The slaverer's slaverer.

For someone who "doesn't do twitter" Boris Johnson has over 2,700 tweets

[JeMeSouviens]

https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/statu...97894964060160

(watch to the end )

[southsider]

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https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/statu...97894964060160

(watch to the end )

Brought a smile to my face on a drab day.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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Bring back the Poll Tax ...

Never, but as I said earlier, a local income tax based upon earnings is the fairest way to raise local government funds. It works for central government, and we all accept it as the fairest method, so why don't we also use it for local services, instead of a bizarre property tax which throws up so many examples of unfairness?

[ballengeich]

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Never, but as I said earlier, a local income tax based upon earnings is the fairest way to raise local government funds. It works for central government, and we all accept it as the fairest method, so why don't we also use it for local services, instead of a bizarre property tax which throws up so many examples of unfairness?

At national level we have taxes on wealth (capital gains, inheritance etc) in addition to income tax. I don't see why we can't develop a similar hybrid system locally. Some people gain far more than others through arbitrary differences in the rate of change in house prices so I see no objection to some level of tax on property. What you have when you sell a home or leave it to heirs can vary enormously so why shouldn't those with more (unrealised) , wealth pay a bit more?

The big change I'd like to see in local taxation is for far more to be raised locally rather than doled out from a central government pool. The block grant was originally intended to give poorer communities an equal chance to provide local services compared with the more wealthy, but it gradually expanded to become the major source of local government income. It would improve democratic accountability if local parties had to create a relationship between what they plan to do and how much tax they'll have to raise to achieve it.

[southsider]

Maybe but the wealthy will just use their fancy-dan accountants to worm their way out of paying their fair share.

[Frankhfc]

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Maybe but the wealthy will just use their fancy-dan accountants to worm their way out of paying their fair share.

They can shift off to another country if that's the case but will have to leave their assets behind. We want real change in indy Scotland and anyone that thinks they can avoid paying their whack into the system can do one.

[Cataplana]

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They can shift off to another country if that's the case but will have to leave their assets behind. We want real change in indy Scotland and anyone that thinks they can avoid paying their whack into the system can do one.

Then we will be no better off.

[Hibrandenburg]

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Meanwhile at the Tory manifesto launch....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGUW...ature=emb_logo

Manifesto summarised:

Brexit Labour Labour Labour Brexit trust us Labour Brexit Labour Sturgeon Brexit get it done Corbyn's Labour law and order Labour Brexit nurses yada yada yada.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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At national level we have taxes on wealth (capital gains, inheritance etc) in addition to income tax. I don't see why we can't develop a similar hybrid system locally. Some people gain far more than others through arbitrary differences in the rate of change in house prices so I see no objection to some level of tax on property. What you have when you sell a home or leave it to heirs can vary enormously so why shouldn't those with more (unrealised) , wealth pay a bit more?

The big change I'd like to see in local taxation is for far more to be raised locally rather than doled out from a central government pool. The block grant was originally intended to give poorer communities an equal chance to provide local services compared with the more wealthy, but it gradually expanded to become the major source of local government income. It would improve democratic accountability if local parties had to create a relationship between what they plan to do and how much tax they'll have to raise to achieve it.

Me neither, but that's what inheritance tax is for. I prefer a local income tax for local government revenue. Some people will be asset rich, due to the increase in house prices, but cash poor. Taxing income is fairer, then; when a homeowner dies and leaves it to heirs, we have inheritance tax to address the issue you raise. A local income tax is also much more accurate than the house valuation bands we have with council tax, whereby people with vastly different resources can pay the same.

[lapsedhibee]

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Me neither, but that's what inheritance tax is for. I prefer a local income tax for local government revenue. Some people will be asset rich, due to the increase in house prices, but cash poor. Taxing income is fairer, then; when a homeowner dies and leaves it to heirs, we have inheritance tax to address the issue you raise. A local income tax is also much more accurate than the house valuation bands we have with council tax, whereby people with vastly different resources can pay the same.

Inheritance Tax as currently operated has its own unfairnesses. Heavily skewed against unmarried people, and against people without children, for example.

[Future17]

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Me neither, but that's what inheritance tax is for. I prefer a local income tax for local government revenue. Some people will be asset rich, due to the increase in house prices, but cash poor. Taxing income is fairer, then; when a homeowner dies and leaves it to heirs, we have inheritance tax to address the issue you raise. A local income tax is also much more accurate than the house valuation bands we have with council tax, whereby people with vastly different resources can pay the same.

It's possible (and increasingly common) for people with high-value residential properties to make arrangements to significantly reduce the liability on their estates in relation to inheritance tax; at certain levels, the liability can be removed altogether.

There is also the indirectly related difficulty of people occupying homes which are far larger than they require, which causes all sorts of knock-on problems.

I think a "fair" system of local resident taxation would have to take account of the full asset picture, not just income.