General election 2019

[Cataplana]

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It's a pity the forum doesn't have a tongue in cheek smiley.

😂

I'm sure it's got a whoosh one, I just can't find it.

[Ozyhibby]

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Yeah, I think to an extent, the public don’t really have an awareness of the demographics.

We are experiencing a massive rise, which is set to continue, in our older population, 75+ and 85+.

I would have to check but I think the 85+ population is set to treble over the next decade or two.

While some of those people will never or only lightly touch health and care services, a lot more will be living into their eighties with long-term conditions - COPD, diabetes, chronic heart disease, arthritis, several others, and often multiples of those.

It represents a massive demand on NHS and social care, and neither are currently resourced for it.

I also think there is a need for a thoughtful conversation about expectations and entitlement, and what is realistic.

For me, it needs something along the lines of a Royal Commission, instead of politicians of all hues kicking it down the road.

A royal commission might be a good idea but it would be very limited in the solutions it could recommend because of the lack of funding levers held at holyrood.


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[Ozyhibby]

Tories and Lib Dem’s both bragging about how many trees they will plant. Problem is if the SNP were to match these promises then they would need to reduce the amount of trees they are already planting.


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[G B Young]

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If the upcoming election turfs out most of those Tories who took up office in 2017, I'll look forward to your move towards our next independence referendum with glee. The people of Scotland will have spoken after all. ��

The SNP (understandably) thought they'd spoken in 2015 but the over-hasty post-Brexit charge towards a fresh independence referendum didn't work out so well...

FWIW I think it's pretty clear the SNP will all but sweep the boards here next month. Without Ruth Davidson at the helm in Scotland the Tories will struggle for an identity and Labour, well, as others have said, it wouldn't be a surprise if Ian Murray is the last man standing again. Nevertheless, I also think we may find that Johnson isn't as loathed in Scotland as generally portrayed and the Tories may still win a notable share of the vote, while (as in 2015) a sizeable chunk of the SNP vote will be made up of utterly disillusioned former Labour voters who feel switching to the Tories is a step too far (ie not necessarily an endorsement of independence).

As I've said before, should we end up with Corbyn as PM I'll be right with you when it comes to backing independence. However, the only conceivable way I could see that coming even close to reality would be via a pact with the SNP - and given his seeming (and baffling) determination to burn his bridges on that score I think we'll be spared such a fate.

[Mibbes Aye]

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A royal commission might be a good idea but it would be very limited in the solutions it could recommend because of the lack of funding levers held at holyrood.


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Royal Commission is necessary IMO at U.K. level.

SG could commission an inquiry with similar powers at a Scotland-wide level. It would mean the SNP has to take a hit for mismanaging the NHS for the last ten years.

What do you think they will do?

[Ozyhibby]

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Royal Commission is necessary IMO at U.K. level.

SG could commission an inquiry with similar powers at a Scotland-wide level. It would mean the SNP has to take a hit for mismanaging the NHS for the last ten years.

What do you think they will do?

I can’t remember the last time we had a royal commission. They have long since gone out of fashion. They had one on police corruption in Oz when I was there but I doubt the uk has had one in 30 years. I’d say there is zero chance of it happening.
I would have one for criminal justice and drug policy as well but I can’t see it happening.



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[Mibbes Aye]

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I can’t remember the last time we had a royal commission. They have long since gone out of fashion. They had one on police corruption in Oz when I was there but I doubt the uk has had one in 30 years. I’d say there is zero chance of it happening.
I would have one for criminal justice and drug policy as well but I can’t see it happening.



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They were in fashion in the seventies and they carried a lot of clout. Sometimes it is worth revisiting history. And no reason for SG not establishing some sort of public inguiry.

I fully agree with you that it is timely to have one on drug policy.

[Ozyhibby]

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They were in fashion in the seventies and they carried a lot of clout. Sometimes it is worth revisiting history. And no reason for SG not establishing some sort of public inguiry.

I fully agree with you that it is timely to have one on drug policy.

Drug policy really annoys me because everyone knows what we need to do. Every time a politician, police chief etc leaves a job they go public and say we need to legalise and treat as a health issue but nobody is ever brave enough to say it while they are in the job.


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[Mibbes Aye]

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Drug policy really annoys me because everyone knows what we need to do. Every time a politician, police chief etc leaves a job they go public and say we need to legalise and treat as a health issue but nobody is ever brave enough to say it while they are in the job.


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No disagreement from me C, it is a public health issue, not a criminal issue.

[Smartie]

What is a royal commission?

[stoneyburn hibs]

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What is a royal commission?

Google Prince Andrew.

[Moulin Yarns]

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No.

I challenge people posting, saying look at Scotland, we are doing far better than England and Wales.

Those posters, and that includes you, don’t acknowledge that Scotland is failing to meet the targets it set itself and is breaking the law the SNP set itself.

So when you talk about accountability excuse me if I wince or pass a wry smile.

Let us be accurate. Saying we are doing better than England is firstly a false comparison, because the local government cuts are two years ahead there, which impacts on social care, which impacts on acute performance.

Secondly, trumpeting that things are less worse in Scotland is pathetic. It’s akin to saying “Hey, Colin Calderwood. Better than that Terry Butcher, eh?”

I think less defensiveness and more honesty are in order, rather than clinging to the fact that Scotland fails to meet its targets but slightly less worse at it than other parts of the UK

Sorry MA but you are just repeating the same opinions over and over again. I worked in local government and can assure you that, at least in my area, the cuts have been going on for over 10,maybe even 18 years.

On targets for the NHS which are the ones that are not being met and when will there be litigation for missing targets?

At least accept that NHS Scotland, whilst not perfect, is performing better than its closest comparators.

[Ozyhibby]

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What is a royal commission?

As far as I remember it’s like a massive public enquiry where nothing is off the table and it has far reaching powers.
The one they had in Australia when I was there had massive powers and were not slow to jail anyone who even thought about lying to it.


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[Mibbes Aye]

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What is a royal commission?

I am not being smart but google as it was very big in the 1970s

At its best it is a very thorough inspection where everything is on the table, as Ozyhibby stated, and folk have to answer or face contempt of court.

It is a massive enquiry into what is going on. The Scottish NHS is failing, as is the NHS in England and Wales. It is easy to make political points. No one looks pretty when you look at the results.

[Cataplana]

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I am not being smart but google as it was very big in the 1970s

At its best it is a very thorough inspection where everything is on the table, as Ozyhibby stated, and folk have to answer or face contempt of court.

It is a massive enquiry into what is going on. The Scottish NHS is failing, as is the NHS in England and Wales. It is easy to make political points. No one looks pretty when you look at the results.

There is a massive conversation to be had about what people can reasonably expect from the NHS. It some point the elephant in the room of overuse, and misuse of the service has to be broached.

This could stretch from over reliance on prescriptions to the role the medical profession plays in the benefit system.

[Fife-Hibee]

A lot gets said about how much money should be thrown into the NHS. But nothing ever gets said about how much money should go towards promoting health campaigns that will help keep people out of the NHS.

How much of the overall burden goes towards treating health conditions that ultimately come from poor lifestyle choices?

[Mibbes Aye]

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Sorry MA but you are just repeating the same opinions over and over again. I worked in local government and can assure you that, at least in my area, the cuts have been going on for over 10,maybe even 18 years.

On targets for the NHS which are the ones that are not being met and when will there be litigation for missing targets?

At least accept that NHS Scotland, whilst not perfect, is performing better than its closest comparators.

I have no problem with NHS Scotland doing a wee bit better than England or Wales.

I have a problem with people like you trying to big it up.

NHS Scotland is doing better, but is failing by its own standards. That’s not good enough is it?

By the SNP’s own standards, we are breaking our own laws.

Answwr that, my supposed Green friend.

[cabbageandribs1875]

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Google Prince Andrew.

i did but it's scantily clad females that come up in the results


some of them look very young

[DaveF]

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By the SNP’s own standards, we are breaking our own laws.

Answwr that, my supposed Green friend.

Take them to court then. Job done.

You can open the case with the Butcher/Calderwood comparison 😁

[stoneyburn hibs]

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i did but it's scantily clad females that come up in the results


some of them look very young

🤣

[RyeSloan]

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Labour now copying the Lib Dem ploy in Scotland to mislead people with graphs that try to take us all for idiots.
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18...sWZdS1esWt5LeM

So much for the electoral commission.

Was the data on the graph wrong? Was the graph titled incorrectly?

If not then what would you want the electoral commission to do in this instance?

[Ozyhibby]

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[Ozyhibby]

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[allmodcons]

"It would mean the SNP has to take a hit for mismanaging the NHS for the last ten years"


No real need for a Royal Commission, looks like you already have the SNP Government (sorry the SNP) hung, drawn and quartered.

With regard to targets, you'd be the first to complain if they were unambitious.

The SNP have been in power for 12 years, only 5 years as a majority Government. For 10 years of that 12 year period the country's had to deal with Tory Austerity.

Maybe you should look to re-direct your ire at the real enemy.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Take them to court then. Job done.

You can open the case with the Butcher/Calderwood comparison 😁

Pretty much what I meant.. 🤔

[Moulin Yarns]

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I have no problem with NHS Scotland doing a wee bit better than England or Wales.

I have a problem with people like you trying to big it up.

NHS Scotland is doing better, but is failing by its own standards. That’s not good enough is it?

By the SNP’s own standards, we are breaking our own laws.

Answwr that, my supposed Green friend.

You say WE are breaking our own laws. That's a bit rich from someone who is a bit heated every time someone else uses the same word. WE are not breaking any laws that would result in court action, unless we, I mean you, want to raise a civil action.

[Mibbes Aye]

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You say WE are breaking our own laws. That's a bit rich from someone who is a bit heated every time someone else uses the same word. WE are not breaking any laws that would result in court action, unless we, I mean you, want to raise a civil action.

You either break the law or you don’t. One of the means SG avoids it is by health boards paying BUPA or other private providers to step in and make up for the lack of capacity in the statutory sector. Yet people on here criticise BoJo for wanting to privatise the NHS but don’t speak up when Nicola Sturgeon pumps money to the private sector.

I’m glad to have you accepted it is written in law and I’m glad you have accepted that the law has been broken something approaching 200,000 times by the government that created that law

[Mibbes Aye]

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Take them to court then. Job done.

You can open the case with the Butcher/Calderwood comparison 😁

Droll and informative.

I have no interest in a legal battle, but I do know that the SNP government made a law that they have broken 150-200,000 times. Can you refute that?

And as it goes I like the Calderwood/Butcher analogy. It sums up the situation pretty aptly.

[Mibbes Aye]

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"It would mean the SNP has to take a hit for mismanaging the NHS for the last ten years"


No real need for a Royal Commission, looks like you already have the SNP Government (sorry the SNP) hung, drawn and quartered.

With regard to targets, you'd be the first to complain if they were unambitious.

The SNP have been in power for 12 years, only 5 years as a majority Government. For 10 years of that 12 year period the country's had to deal with Tory Austerity.

Maybe you should look to re-direct your ire at the real enemy.

The SNP government has control over the health service in Scotland.

The SNP government has tax raising powers it has chosen not to use.

The SNP government oversaw a council tax freeze for many years which benefitted the richest over the poorest and forsake tax-raising income, as some form of middle-class bribe.

The SNP government was in charge for the omnishambles that was QEII, the Sick Kids, the massive overspend that has to be written off by various health boards, the toxic bullying cultures in a number of health boards.

The SNP government has a minister in charge of health who is accused of a cover-up over child deaths in our flagship hospital.

You are right, they have been in power a long time. Therefore time they took ownership.

[Fife-Hibee]

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The SNP government has control over the health service in Scotland.The SNP government has tax raising powers it has chosen not to use.

It has tax powers that would be grossly irresponsible to use without the leverage to control other tax powers still reserved at Westminster. No use in raising taxes if it's only to then be deducted from the 50% or so we get back from our tax contributions to the UK treasury already.

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The SNP government oversaw a council tax freeze for many years which benefitted the richest over the poorest and forsake tax-raising income, as some form of middle-class bribe.

All part of 'partial' devolution. At the time the Scottish Government only had the power to freeze council tax for everybody or nobody at all. So they chose to freeze it for everybody. Sure, it helped out rich people.... but it still helped out everybody else as well.

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The SNP government was in charge for the omnishambles that was QEII, the Sick Kids, the massive overspend that has to be written off by various health boards, the toxic bullying cultures in a number of health boards.

You talk about the health boards as if they are the SNP. The SNP simply gives the health board targets to meet. It's up to the health board to either agree to these targets or to appeal against them. They didn't put an appeal in against the proposed targets despite being fully aware of the budget they were being given. So the axe really falls on the health board, not the Scottish Government.

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The SNP government has a minister in charge of health who is accused of a cover-up over child deaths in our flagship hospital.

Hmm yes. Remind me, who is actually accusing the health minister again? Because all we keep hearing is "NHS whistleblower", but no name.

The claim that the death 'may have' been connected with hospital water supplies in 2017 haven't been backed up with a single shred of evidence.

Considering the sheer lack of evidence, I find it disgraceful that the tories are trying to gain political capital over the death of a child. Especially considering their own 'proven' failures on the NHS in England leading to multiple deaths. Deaths that the SNP never sink to a level low enough to try and seek political capital out of.

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You are right, they have been in power a long time. Therefore time they took ownership.

I agree. That's why they're looking to take ownership by removing ownership from London.