General election 2019

[Fife-Hibee]

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Also, Brexit Party get 7.8% of the vote, no seats.
SNP 3.2% of the vote (half the Brexit Party votes) they get 48 seats.

Utterly ridiculous.

J

It really isn't. If that 7.8% of the UK vote was focused in an area containing 8.4% of the UK population, UKIP would win every seat in that area.

A proportional voting system would destroy localism and what we would get is a fully centralized government. FPTP despite it's problems, is the most workable system available.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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It really isn't. If that 7.8% of the UK vote was focused in an area containing 8.4% of the UK population, UKIP would win every seat in that area.

A proportional voting system would destroy localism and what we would get is a fully centralized government. FPTP despite it's problems, is the most workable system available.

It's inherently unfair. No matter the case that can be made to defend it, first past the post is incredibly unjust and a form of gerrymandering.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Keith Vaz is the latest MP to announce he is stepping down at the forthcoming election. Rent boys, cocaine, poppers then lying to a Commons select committee about what he was up to.

[Fife-Hibee]

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It's inherently unfair. No matter the case that can be made to defend it, first past the post is incredibly unjust and a form of gerrymandering.

I never said it was fair. But proportional voting (although it appears fair at first glance) doesn't work on a national scale, at least not on it's own. We could of course have a secondary tier of MPs. MPs for local and MPs for national, but that's more tax payers money going towards what many would view as excessive bureaucracy.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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I never said it was fair. But proportional voting (although it appears fair at first glance) doesn't work on a national scale, at least not on it's own. We could of course have a secondary tier of MPs. MPs for local and MPs for national, but that's more tax payers money going towards what many would view as excessive bureaucracy.

The are a number of electoral systems available, including various forms of PR, some more proportional than others. What is undeniable is that FPTP is the least proportional system. It can't be right that parties with, for example, ten per cent of the national vote get no representation at all.

[Fife-Hibee]

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The are a number of electoral systems available, including various forms of PR, some more proportional than others. What is undeniable is that FPTP is the least proportional system. It can't be right that parties with, for example, ten per cent of the national vote get no representation at all.

They get 10 percent of the vote, but which areas of the country are they supposed to represent if that 10% is spread out over all areas?

[JeMeSouviens]

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They get 10 percent of the vote, but which areas of the country are they supposed to represent if that 10% is spread out over all areas?

Look up STV as used in Ireland and N Ireland.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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They get 10 percent of the vote, but which areas of the country are they supposed to represent if that 10% is spread out over all areas?

There are various forms of PR, but you are right to say the more proportional the system the less constituency based it becomes. More proportional systems do weaken the link between local voters and their representative and it's a trade off. Conversely, a party with several million votes under FPTP can end up without representation in parliament. The all or nothing of FPTP can't be fair, as it can leave millions disenfranchised.

[Ozyhibby]

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The are a number of electoral systems available, including various forms of PR, some more proportional than others. What is undeniable is that FPTP is the least proportional system. It can't be right that parties with, for example, ten per cent of the national vote get no representation at all.

I would say that a party with 10% of the vote can still be a success in fptp. UKIP picking up a lot less than 10% of the vote managed to fundamentally change the Tory party and achieved their primary aim of brexit.
The greens are managing to get the Lib Dem’s to stand aside in seats to help them.



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[Bristolhibby]

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It really isn't. If that 7.8% of the UK vote was focused in an area containing 8.4% of the UK population, UKIP would win every seat in that area.

A proportional voting system would destroy localism and what we would get is a fully centralized government. FPTP despite it's problems, is the most workable system available.

Struggling to see how you defend against my previous point. The percentage of U.K. vote to seats is undemocratic.

Don’t get me wrong, I loathe the Brexit Party. But you can see why they feel ignored.

I get the link to constituency. Perhaps the Scottish Parliament system that has constituent and list MSPs. This would be a start.

But it really is Turkeys voting for Christmas and nothing will change soon.

J

[Bristolhibby]

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There are various forms of PR, but you are right to say the more proportional the system the less constituency based it becomes. More proportional systems do weaken the link between local voters and their representative and it's a trade off. Conversely, a party with several million votes under FPTP can end up without representation in parliament. The all or nothing of FPTP can't be fair, as it can leave millions disenfranchised.

Exactly, or voting tactically. I vote Labour in the European Elections (Regional PR) but have to vote Liberal Democrat in General Elections as my best opportunity to stop the Tories. It’s a two horse race.

J

[Colr]

Interesting reading and broken down to a level that might translate onto FPTP.

https://www.centrefortowns.org/blog/...intend-to-vote

[Mr Grieves]

Farage has bottled it, making it easier for the tories.

[SHODAN]

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Farage has bottled it, making it easier for the tories.

That's it. We're ****ed.

[Ozyhibby]

Obviously a pact has been made. His knighthood will follow shortly after.
Tories will win comfortably now in England. Only independence can keep Scotland in the EU.


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[Northernhibee]

Ironic that the man who wants the end of the NHS, workers rights uses today to announce this. A spit in the eye for all things that our country has fought for and is good for.

[Hibbyradge]

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Obviously a pact has been made. His knighthood will follow shortly after.
Tories will win comfortably now in England. Only independence can keep Scotland in the EU.


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A kinghthood is a possibility.

A hard, no-deal Brexit is more likely.

[JeMeSouviens]

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That's it. We're ****ed.

It's not good but it's not as bad as it might have been.

They're not standing against sitting Tory MPs but they *are* standing in seats the Tories are trying to take off Labour. It's widely thought that the Tories will lose seats to the SNP and the Libs in SW England, so to get a majority they have to make significant gains in Labour territory.

[Northernhibee]

Also to the Lib Dems and SNP - this is why you don't go for an election on Boris' terms.

[Ozyhibby]

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Also to the Lib Dems and SNP - this is why you don't go for an election on Boris' terms.

The SNP didn’t vote for it on Boris’s terms. That was Labour.


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[Northernhibee]

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The SNP didn’t vote for it on Boris’s terms. That was Labour.


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Revisionism at its finest. Labour changed their position after it became clear that the SNP and Lib Dems were going to accept Boris' offer of an election. They had declined the day before and ended up having to change overnight. Guaranteed the SNP-can't-do-no-wrong brigade will be along soon which will be swiftly ignored.

[Ozyhibby]

Only chance for remain now is a deal between Labour and Libs in about 60 seats. It would help both parties and should be a no brainer but it won’t happen.


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[SHODAN]

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Only chance for remain now is a deal between Labour and Libs in about 60 seats. It would help both parties and should be a no brainer but it won’t happen.


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Swinson's a Tory. She doesn't want Labour to win.

[marinello59]

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It's not good but it's not as bad as it might have been.

They're not standing against sitting Tory MPs but they *are* standing in seats the Tories are trying to take off Labour. It's widely thought that the Tories will lose seats to the SNP and the Libs in SW England, so to get a majority they have to make significant gains in Labour territory.

That's how I see it. This does not help the Tories win the seats they really have to win.

[Frankhfc]

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It's not good but it's not as bad as it might have been.

They're not standing against sitting Tory MPs but they *are* standing in seats the Tories are trying to take off Labour. It's widely thought that the Tories will lose seats to the SNP and the Libs in SW England, so to get a majority they have to make significant gains in Labour territory.

I agree.

Its too difficult to precisely forecast how this election will end up just now. A hung parliament is still favourite in my book however Farage has certainly increased the chances of a tory majority with this call. Won't adversely affect the Scottish vote though.

[Mon Dieu4]

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Also to the Lib Dems and SNP - this is why you don't go for an election on Boris' terms.

The SNP will gain seats, once again showing they have a mandate for another Indepedence referendum, Brexit will more than likely go through alienating more Scottish voters from Westminster, I can see exactly why the SNP voted for it and I'd have done the same

[Northernhibee]

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The SNP will gain seats, once again showing they have a mandate for another Indepedence referendum, Brexit will more than likely go through alienating more Scottish voters from Westminster, I can see exactly why the SNP voted for it and I'd have done the same

Truthfully I'm voting SNP to keep the Tories out but if that's their reasoning (stir things up in favour of an independence referendum that the Tories are unlikely to grant, **** the rest of those in the UK who have to live through a hard Brexit) then that's pretty indefensible.

[Mon Dieu4]

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Truthfully I'm voting SNP to keep the Tories out but if that's their reasoning (stir things up in favour of an independence referendum that the Tories are unlikely to grant, **** the rest of those in the UK who have to live through a hard Brexit) then that's pretty indefensible.

They will never admit it but of course that's why they are doing it, as I said I'd have done it too, we each vote for people who will look after our interests, the rest of the UK has the chance to vote the Tories out

[Cataplana]

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Farage has bottled it, making it easier for the tories.

His last chance to appear relevant. He really is yesterday's man.

[Fife-Hibee]

Why is anybody surprised? Farage IS a Tory.