General election 2019

[G B Young]

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During an election campaign, you can ignore any any pledges about ruling out working without other parties.

It'll be a case of who blinks first should that situation arise.

The SNP will deal with the Tories if they're the only party which guarantees them Indyref 2.

Sure, they'd be keeping them in power, but that won't stop people in Scotland voting Yes. In fact, the prospect of continuing with Diana as PM, would shore up the pro-indy vote.

Hard to believe that scenario will come to pass, though I guess the SNP helped to usher Thatcher into power so there's a precedent there

[Hibbyradge]

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Hard to believe that scenario will come to pass, though I guess the SNP helped to usher Thatcher into power so there's a precedent there

It is hard to see that happening, but my point is that because it's possible, Labour won't be able to just simply blank the SNP's request.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Here is what Salmond said to Andrew Marr ahead of the 2014 vote:

When pressed by Marr on whether he would attempt to bring back another referendum should the no vote prevail, Scotland's First Minister said that would not occur within "this political generation". Asked to define what he meant by that, Salmond said: "If you remember that previous constitutional referendum in Scotland - there was one in 1979 and then the next one was 1997. That's what I mean by a political generation.

"However, in my opinion this is a once in a generation, perhaps even a once in a lifetime opportunity for Scotland."

Based on that, and the fact those words came from the man who was First Minister for Scotland at the time, I think the electorate were entitled to see that as the accepted view.

As with everything on Hibs.Net it's all about opinions. Alex salmond gave his opinion in an interview.

There is an alternative definition of a political generation and that is a group of similar aged people who share political experiences.

http://oer2go.org/mods/en-boundless/www.boundless.com/political-science/definition/political-generation/index.html


Myself, I think a political generation is defined as the length of a political administration, in other words the length of a parliament. We are about to have our 3rd UK parliament since Alex Salmond referred to the once in a generation event.

[G B Young]

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Nope... that's him stone cold. Frightening, isn't it?

... and what is it with the orchestra conducting arm waves? Get's right on my thrupennies. It's always the rabble-rousers like Trump... and Hitler.

I note that it's Labour who are borrowing from the Trump playbook today, denouncing Tory criticism of their spending plans as "fake news".

[CloudSquall]

Pre 2014: Fat Eck doesn't speak for us!

Post 2014: Salmond is the almighty Oracle who's opinion is law.

[SHODAN]

Labour gaining on the Tories in the polls, though still miles behind.

[Ozyhibby]

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Labour gaining on the Tories in the polls, though still miles behind.

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[Moulin Yarns]

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And a happy Sunday to you too.

[Ozyhibby]

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And a happy Sunday to you too.

Sorry.


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[SHODAN]

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See, this is why I hate FPTP. If your vote proportion goes down you shouldn't get loads more seats just because the opposition are split. If you get 40% of the vote you should get 40% of the seats, period. It's a ****ing joke.

[Moulin Yarns]

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See, this is why I hate FPTP. If your vote proportion goes down you shouldn't get loads more seats just because the opposition are split. If you get 40% of the vote you should get 40% of the seats, period. It's a ****ing joke.

Although, the snp percentage is up 0.1 and they get 13 more seats. What's not to like 😉

[Hibrandenburg]

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'Why Sturgeon's indyref pact with Corbyn will never come to pass':

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...pass-1-5042892

If the SNP become king makers then Corbyn would sell his left bollock to become PM, he'd marinate it in a whisky sauce before deep frying it and serving it up to Sturgeon on a silver platter if it got him into number 10.

[Ozyhibby]

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See, this is why I hate FPTP. If your vote proportion goes down you shouldn't get loads more seats just because the opposition are split. If you get 40% of the vote you should get 40% of the seats, period. It's a ****ing joke.

Each election is local though. In a system where some parties are very local, fptp works best.


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[Smartie]

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If the SNP become king makers then Corbyn would sell his left bollock to become PM, he'd marinate it in a whisky sauce before deep frying it and serving it up to Sturgeon on a silver platter if it got him into number 10.

I suspect Sturgeon would be looking for something different in exchange.

[G B Young]

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See, this is why I hate FPTP. If your vote proportion goes down you shouldn't get loads more seats just because the opposition are split. If you get 40% of the vote you should get 40% of the seats, period. It's a ****ing joke.

I agree, although I doubt SNP voters would if you recall that in the 2015 election they won 56 seats on the back of just 4.1 per cent of the vote. UKIP conversely won just one seat despite gaining 12.6% of the vote (nearly 4 million votes).

[weecounty hibby]

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Here is what Salmond said to Andrew Marr ahead of the 2014 vote:

When pressed by Marr on whether he would attempt to bring back another referendum should the no vote prevail, Scotland's First Minister said that would not occur within "this political generation". Asked to define what he meant by that, Salmond said: "If you remember that previous constitutional referendum in Scotland - there was one in 1979 and then the next one was 1997. That's what I mean by a political generation.

"However, in my opinion this is a once in a generation, perhaps even a once in a lifetime opportunity for Scotland."

Based on that, and the fact those words came from the man who was First Minister for Scotland at the time, I think the electorate were entitled to see that as the accepted view.

Or unless there is a substantial material change in circumstances. Sorry I can't do big giant letters for emphasis. Brexit and leaving the EU, something we were promised would not happen if we remained part of the union. Massive material change in circumstances and you well know that. Remember all the promises of how if you want to remain in Europe vote no. Well how has that worked out for everyone?

[SHODAN]

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I agree, although I doubt SNP voters would if you recall that in the 2015 election they won 56 seats on the back of just 4.1 per cent of the vote. UKIP conversely won just one seat despite gaining 12.6% of the vote (nearly 4 million votes).

I'm an SNP voter and I'd gladly sacrifice some seats in the Commons for an end to winner-takes-all politics. The party themselves support this too.

25 seats means a lot more than 50 if no party is guaranteed a majority by virtue of winning the most votes. It means people will have to work together and compromise.

[marinello59]

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I note that it's Labour who are borrowing from the Trump playbook today, denouncing Tory criticism of their spending plans as "fake news".

Because it is fake news. Labour haven’t published their spending plans yet.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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Or unless there is a substantial material change in circumstances. Sorry I can't do big giant letters for emphasis. Brexit and leaving the EU, something we were promised would not happen if we remained part of the union. Massive material change in circumstances and you well know that. Remember all the promises of how if you want to remain in Europe vote no. Well how has that worked out for everyone?

It's amazing how often this is ignored (or swept under the carpet).

[Jack Hackett]

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Here is what Salmond said to Andrew Marr ahead of the 2014 vote:

When pressed by Marr on whether he would attempt to bring back another referendum should the no vote prevail, Scotland's First Minister said that would not occur within "this political generation". Asked to define what he meant by that, Salmond said: "If you remember that previous constitutional referendum in Scotland - there was one in 1979 and then the next one was 1997. That's what I mean by a political generation.

"However, in my opinion this is a once in a generation, perhaps even a once in a lifetime opportunity for Scotland."

Based on that, and the fact those words came from the man who was First Minister for Scotland at the time, I think the electorate were entitled to see that as the accepted view.

No. It's unionists who feel entitled to see that as the accepted view.

[Ozyhibby]

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Here is what Salmond said to Andrew Marr ahead of the 2014 vote:

When pressed by Marr on whether he would attempt to bring back another referendum should the no vote prevail, Scotland's First Minister said that would not occur within "this political generation". Asked to define what he meant by that, Salmond said: "If you remember that previous constitutional referendum in Scotland - there was one in 1979 and then the next one was 1997. That's what I mean by a political generation.

"However, in my opinion this is a once in a generation, perhaps even a once in a lifetime opportunity for Scotland."

Based on that, and the fact those words came from the man who was First Minister for Scotland at the time, I think the electorate were entitled to see that as the accepted view.

I think that since the former PM said that by voting NO Scotland would stay in the EU, I think the electorate were entitled to see that as the accepted view as well. No?


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[CloudSquall]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Graeme252...39882842169346

The game's a bogey in Wales...

Question: "What is it about Johnson that makes you think he will succeed?"

Answer: "he's been proven to be a liar"

[Bristolhibby]

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See, this is why I hate FPTP. If your vote proportion goes down you shouldn't get loads more seats just because the opposition are split. If you get 40% of the vote you should get 40% of the seats, period. It's a ****ing joke.

Also, Brexit Party get 7.8% of the vote, no seats.
SNP 3.2% of the vote (half the Brexit Party votes) they get 48 seats.

Utterly ridiculous.

J

[Glory Lurker]

Brexit Party getting no seats on 7.8% of the vote is actually a ringing endorsement of fptp!

[DaveF]

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https://mobile.twitter.com/Graeme252...39882842169346

The game's a bogey in Wales...

Question: "What is it about Johnson that makes you think he will succeed?"

Answer: "he's been proven to be a liar"

It's complete airheads like that who will return a Tory majority. It's just a fail on so many levels.

[G B Young]

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I think that since the former PM said that by voting NO Scotland would stay in the EU, I think the electorate were entitled to see that as the accepted view as well. No?


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I don't disagree. However, the count had barely concluded in the Brexit referendum before Sturgeon launched fresh plans for an independence bid, doubtless convinced that Scotland would be so outraged that we'd all but rise up and storm Westminster. Instead the SNP ended up losing a hefty chunk of seats at the next election and Sturgeon was forced to think again. Essentially this oft-quoted 'lie' about staying in the EU wasn't the burning issue among the Scottish electorate that she'd assumed it to be. Of course the subsequent years of Brexit chaos have enabled the SNP to grasp this cudgel again in a bit to browbeat everyone into thinking 'the people of Scotland' are on a war footing about Brexit, overlooking the fact that over a million Scottish voters (including SNP supporters) actually voted to leave the EU. A minority yes, but only a few per cent less than the minority who voted for Scottish independence - and you could never say the SNP overlook the latter!

[G B Young]

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https://mobile.twitter.com/Graeme252...39882842169346

The game's a bogey in Wales...

Question: "What is it about Johnson that makes you think he will succeed?"

Answer: "he's been proven to be a liar"

She also goes on to say he has 'balls of steel' and that as a long-time Labour voter she's now '100% Conservative'. Might not be the sharpest analysis but if that's the perception ordinary voters there have of his 'get Brexit done' policy compared to Corbyn's lack of a policy voters can understand then Johnson's on the right lines.

[G B Young]

Vaz brings what had been an impressive political career to an end in rather sorry fashion:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50369905

[lapsedhibee]

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Also, Brexit Party get 7.8% of the vote, no seats.
SNP 3.2% of the vote (half the Brexit Party votes) they get 48 seats.

Utterly ridiculous.

J

If Brexit Party targeted just 53 seats, like the SNP, instead of 600 odd, they might end up with a greater number of seats than zero.

[Moulin Yarns]

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I don't disagree. However, the count had barely concluded in the Brexit referendum before Sturgeon launched fresh plans for an independence bid, doubtless convinced that Scotland would be so outraged that we'd all but rise up and storm Westminster. Instead the SNP ended up losing a hefty chunk of seats at the next election and Sturgeon was forced to think again. Essentially this oft-quoted 'lie' about staying in the EU wasn't the burning issue among the Scottish electorate that she'd assumed it to be. Of course the subsequent years of Brexit chaos have enabled the SNP to grasp this cudgel again in a bit to browbeat everyone into thinking 'the people of Scotland' are on a war footing about Brexit, overlooking the fact that over a million Scottish voters (including SNP supporters) actually voted to leave the EU. A minority yes, but only a few per cent less than the minority who voted for Scottish independence - and you could never say the SNP overlook the latter!

A few percent less than the minority who voted for Scottish independence

That would be your 1 million leave voters and I'll give you the 1.6 million who voted for independence.

Who do you think has more of a shout to be heard?