Brexit - What Now.

[Callum_62]

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Torie's won't agree to an election on the 9th of December, Swinson's ruled out backing an election on the 12th, 3 'kin day difference...

Why are the Govt against the 9th?

And opp against the 12th?

Must be a reason

Edit - ah, ok

"The Lib Dems and SNP want Monday, 9 December, which they say will prevent any chance of the prime minister's Brexit deal being approved before Parliament is dissolved.

Parliament has to be dissolved a minimum of 25 working days before the date of an election to allow sufficient preparations to take place."


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[Jim44]

Listening to a Dispatches programme just now about the implications for the NHS with a trade deal with the Trump government. Depressing.

[CloudSquall]

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Why are the Govt against the 9th?

And opp against the 12th?

Must be a reason

Edit - ah, ok

"The Lib Dems and SNP want Monday, 9 December, which they say will prevent any chance of the prime minister's Brexit deal being approved before Parliament is dissolved.

Parliament has to be dissolved a minimum of 25 working days before the date of an election to allow sufficient preparations to take place."


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..and the government won't agree to the 9th due to the below,

""Govt's justification for not agreeing the Lib Dems date of 9th is that they are not sure they can get the bill through in time, and Northern Ireland Budget Bill has to be passed before Parliament can be dissolved""

[Ozyhibby]

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Listening to a Dispatches programme just now about the implications for the NHS with a trade deal with the Trump government. Depressing.

If Labour can make the election about this then they have a chance. Play the fear card. Maybe put it on a bus.


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[Fuzzywuzzy]

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Listening to a Dispatches programme just now about the implications for the NHS with a trade deal with the Trump government. Depressing.

That was actually depressing. You kind of wonder what kind of lock in would be involved that the NHS can't get drugs from other countries

[mjhibby]

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..and the government won't agree to the 9th due to the below,

""Govt's justification for not agreeing the Lib Dems date of 9th is that they are not sure they can get the bill through in time, and Northern Ireland Budget Bill has to be passed before Parliament can be dissolved""

Johnson isnt bringing the bill back. It's straight to an election. Dec 9 not great but as long as brexit isn't sorted I can't see Johnson winning.

[Ozyhibby]

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Johnson isnt bringing the bill back. It's straight to an election. Dec 9 not great but as long as brexit isn't sorted I can't see Johnson winning.

He’s still very much the favourite right now. Labour will need to up their game substantially and there to be a massive tactical voting movement to have any chance of even getting to a hung parliament.


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[CloudSquall]

"No 10 sources" are saying the Goverment will accept the SNP/Lib Dem amendent to allow for an election but on the 11th of December instead of the 9th.

[SHODAN]

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"No 10 sources" are saying the Goverment will accept the SNP/Lib Dem amendent to allow for an election on the 11th of December.

A compromise. Amazing.

Imagine if elections actually returned MPs proportional to the percentage of votes actually cast for them?

[Ozyhibby]

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"No 10 sources" are saying the Goverment will accept the SNP/Lib Dem amendent to allow for an election but on the 11th of December instead of the 9th.

Labour will end up abstaining. They are going into an election campaign and nobody has the first idea what they stand for.


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[Frankhfc]

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Labour will end up abstaining. They are going into an election campaign and nobody has the first idea what they stand for.


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Couldn't agree more with you on this point. Some think a change of leader would reinvigorate the party however it wouldn't solve its core systemic crisis of being in the grip of the extreme hard left Momentum. A change of leader would merely paper over the much deeper fault lines. Its in complete chaos.

[Cataplana]

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Couldn't agree more with you on this point. Some think a change of leader would reinvigorate the party however it wouldn't solve its core systemic crisis of being in the grip of the extreme hard left Momentum. A change of leader would merely paper over the much deeper fault lines. Its in complete chaos.

When the country is in the grip of the hard right, that is not necessarily a bad thing. People need to face up to the damage unfettered capitalism is doing.

[Frankhfc]

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When the country is in the grip of the hard right, that is not necessarily a bad thing. People need to face up to the damage unfettered capitalism is doing.

You're meandering off the subject I was commenting on. Labour are in deep crisis and will haemorrhage yet further seats at the forthcoming elections because there is a great deal of infighting and turbulence within the party between Momentum and Blairites in a battle for power and setting of policies.

[CloudSquall]

Rumours circulating on Twitter now that Labour will actually whip to vote FOR the election in December (McDonnell backing Corbyn to vote for it, chief whip trying to push back on it though).

Buckle up boys

[Cataplana]

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You're meandering off the subject I was commenting on. Labour are in deep crisis and will haemorrhage yet further seats at the forthcoming elections because there is a great deal of infighting and turbulence within the party between Momentum and Blairites in a battle for power and setting of policies.

Fair enough, can't disagree with your assessment.

[CloudSquall]

Corbyn confirmed he will back an election.

HERE WE, HERE WE, HERE WE ***** GO

[SHODAN]

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You're meandering off the subject I was commenting on. Labour are in deep crisis and will haemorrhage yet further seats at the forthcoming elections because there is a great deal of infighting and turbulence within the party between Momentum and Blairites in a battle for power and setting of policies.

If the Blairites get back in power after we leave then there's no point. Someone like Cooper will win a majority in five years but they'll do literally nothing to reverse the social and economic damage done by Brexit. We'll have long left the EU and they won't want to risk their careers on another referendum - the centrist position is one of continuity.

For the rUK's sake I hope Corbyn can get a government put together.

[JeMeSouviens]

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You're meandering off the subject I was commenting on. Labour are in deep crisis and will haemorrhage yet further seats at the forthcoming elections because there is a great deal of infighting and turbulence within the party between Momentum and Blairites in a battle for power and setting of policies.

They're on FPTP life support. The thing about FPTP is if it gets to a tipping point (see Scotland 2015) then they will be swept aside.

They will probably limp along ok in the coming election due to Remain tactical voting but the long term problem of MPs somewhat in tune with voters but with a completely different outlook to the leadership and the membership is not going away.

[Sylar]

I don't know how the next few months will play out but I don't see a GE solving many problems. Car crash politics mixing with the normal pre-Christmas period insanity. Bah ****ing humbug indeed.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Corbyn confirmed he will back an election.

HERE WE, HERE WE, HERE WE ***** GO

This is Remain's last stand. There needs to be widespread tactical voting and the parties themselves are not going to get their **** together to co-ordinate it. It can happen on the ground though, like the good (and bad under Thatch) old days of a Tory free Scotland.

[JeMeSouviens]

[Northernhibee]

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This is Remain's last stand. There needs to be widespread tactical voting and the parties themselves are not going to get their **** together to co-ordinate it. It can happen on the ground though, like the good (and bad under Thatch) old days of a Tory free Scotland.

This is one of the most important six weeks ahead of the United Kingdom's history. It will define the next few generations future.

[Ozyhibby]

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This is Remain's last stand. There needs to be widespread tactical voting and the parties themselves are not going to get their **** together to co-ordinate it. It can happen on the ground though, like the good (and bad under Thatch) old days of a Tory free Scotland.

Hopefully easier to organise these days as well.


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[JeMeSouviens]

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This is one of the most important six weeks ahead of the United Kingdom's history. It will define the next few generations future.

Forget all the **** about whether Corbyn is a Brexiter or whatever. Labour are going to go in with a ref#2 in their manifesto in all circumstances. For the purposes of this election they are a Remain party and Remainers should vote for the best placed of them, the SNP and Libs in each constituency.

[Northernhibee]

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Forget all the **** about whether Corbyn is a Brexiter or whatever. Labour are going to go in with a ref#2 in their manifesto in all circumstances. For the purposes of this election they are a Remain party and Remainers should vote for the best placed of them, the SNP and Libs in each constituency.

The message needs to be clear; you don't need to agree with the SNP, Labour or the Lib Dems; if they are your best bet of representing remain then they get your vote. If you don't vote tactically you are voting for Boris and you are voting for no deal.

You cannot be a remainer and not vote tactically.

[Cataplana]

I enjoyed this piece. Basically says England is on a spiral of self destruction fuelled by an inability to understand themselves, or anybody else.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/27/brexit-politics-britain-england-union

[Ozyhibby]

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The message needs to be clear; you don't need to agree with the SNP, Labour or the Lib Dems; if they are your best bet of representing remain then they get your vote. If you don't vote tactically you are voting for Boris and you are voting for no deal.

You cannot be a remainer and not vote tactically.

Easy to remember in Scotland. If you don’t already have a Lib Dem mp or it’s not Ian Murray, Vote SNP.


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[Sylar]

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Easy to remember in Scotland. If you don’t already have a Lib Dem mp or it’s not Ian Murray, Vote SNP.


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There'll be a double layer to tactical voting up here though - people won't vote for the SNP because they won't want them to use that as some perceived mandate for Independence. I fancy the Lib Dems could poll very well up here for that reason if they have a good representation of candidates across constituencies.

[CloudSquall]

Depending on the constituency I could see many soft Tory voters (the type that Davidson won over) voting for the Lib Dems in Scotland.

I imagine the SNP will take the Labour seats bar Murray's with the Tory seats bar 1 or 2 being split between SNP and Lib Dems.

[Ozyhibby]

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There'll be a double layer to tactical voting up here though - people won't vote for the SNP because they won't want them to use that as some perceived mandate for Independence. I fancy the Lib Dems could poll very well up here for that reason if they have a good representation of candidates across constituencies.

The SNP were 2nd in every single Labour and Tory seat last time. There is no chance anyone is coming from third place on the back of tactical voting. SNP base vote is too strong.


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