Brexit - What Now.

[Fife-Hibee]

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There are more than a few Labour MPs who would vote against a second referendum. They don’t have to be seen as opposing it, they are either against it like Hoey and Stringer, or fear deselection or being voted out like Flint.

I'm not talking about Labour. I'm talking about SNP and Lib Dem MPs voting in favour of it, safe in the knowledge that it would never pass thanks to Labour MPs who would vote it down.

MPs can give the impression that they support something by voting in favour of it, while knowing at the same time that there is no risk of the vote ever actually passing.

[marinello59]

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The SNP want a tory brexit just as much as Jo Swinson. Just for different reasons. A general election will hand it to them. Both Swinson and our First Minister know this.

So that's a Yes then, both women are liars in your opinion.

[Ozyhibby]

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I'm not talking about Labour. I'm talking about SNP and Lib Dem MPs voting in favour of it, safe in the knowledge that it would never pass thanks to Labour MPs who would vote it down.

MPs can give the impression that they support something by voting in favour of it, while knowing at the same time that there is no risk of the vote ever actually passing.

Like Jeremy Corbyn saying he’s a remainer?


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[marinello59]

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If a 2nd ref was put to a vote in parliament tomorrow then the SNP and Lib Dem’s would all vote for it. Could Labour say the same?


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No. That's why the Lib Dems and the SNP have had to go down a different path, the numbers simply aren't there to get one.

[Fife-Hibee]

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So that's a Yes then, both women are liars in your opinion.

Politicians are liars. It isn't gender specific. Only a sexist would think that gender makes a difference when it comes to honesty. Right?

[Fife-Hibee]

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Like Jeremy Corbyn saying he’s a remainer?

I don't think Jeremy Corbyn has ever said he's a remainer. But what a politician says or doesn't say isn't important. It's what they commit to on paper and Labour are commited to giving the electorate a choice between a tory deal and remain. Which is surely a better option for remainers than the Lib Dem proposal of handing the tories a massive majority in a general election?

[Callum_62]

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I don't think Jeremy Corbyn has ever said he's a remainer. But what a politician says or doesn't say isn't important. It's what they commit to on paper and Labour are commited to giving the electorate a choice between a tory deal and remain. Which is surely a better option for remainers than the Lib Dem proposal of handing the tories a massive majority in a general election?

Iib dem and now SNP no?

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[Ozyhibby]

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I don't think Jeremy Corbyn has ever said he's a remainer. But what a politician says or doesn't say isn't important. It's what they commit to on paper and Labour are commited to giving the electorate a choice between a tory deal and remain. Which is surely a better option for remainers than the Lib Dem proposal of handing the tories a massive majority in a general election?

Lib Dem’s and SNP likely to increase their vote and number of MP’s in GE. Not sure they can be blamed if the Tories win. I would think that would be down to the parties who lose seats.


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[Fife-Hibee]

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Iib dem and now SNP no?

Did you read any of my previous posts? The SNP want a tory majority and hard brexit "forced upon Scotland". It's the best possible outcome for the parties main agenda.

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Lib Dem’s and SNP likely to increase their vote and number of MP’s in GE. Not sure they can be blamed if the Tories win. I would think that would be down to the parties who lose seats.

So you admit that they're putting their party before the UK?

I'm perfectly fine with it. There will however be a lot of disappointed people who genuinely believed the Lib Dems were anti-brexit.

[marinello59]

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Politicians are liars. It isn't gender specific. Only a sexist would think that gender makes a difference when it comes to honesty. Right?

Eh? Another confusing comment from you. Would you care to expand on that?

[Ozyhibby]

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Did you read any of my previous posts? The SNP want a tory majority and hard brexit "forced upon Scotland". It's the best possible outcome for the parties main agenda.



So you admit that they're putting their party before the UK?

I'm perfectly fine with it. There will however be a lot of disappointed people who genuinely believed the Lib Dems were anti-brexit.

What else can they do? There needs to be movement now. We can’t stay like this forever. Labour won’t back a 2nd referendum so it has to be a GE.


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[Fife-Hibee]

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Eh? Another confusing comment from you. Would you care to expand on that?

Why did you feel the need to point out that both politicians are women. As if their gender had any bearing on what i'm saying?

[Slavers]

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Yes. An MP's job is to do what they believe is best for their constituents which is not necessarily the same thing as what the majority of their constituents want. Labour's manifesto in 2017 said they would respect ref#1 but negotiate a soft Brexit and explicitly ruled out no deal. They are perfectly within their rights to reject the Tories' hard Brexit which still carries a hidden no-deal threat. And if a ref#2 is the best way to achieve that then so be it.

If people elect MP's to represent their views, then why bother if they will be ignored because the MP's serve their own interests before their constituents.

If this is the kind of politics that remoaners want then surely they'd be better proposing a dictatorship, then the people can just be ignored on every decision because the political elites know best.

[Fife-Hibee]

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What else can they do? There needs to be movement now. We can’t stay like this forever. Labour won’t back a 2nd referendum so it has to be a GE.

Labour have already commited themselves to a peoples vote between a tory deal and remain. That can't however happen with constant delays over parliaments approval of the deal itself.

Labour obviously won't back a 2nd referendum. It will end badly for them. The lib dems will gain seats. But where brexit is concerned, It is handing it on a plate to the tories with no option of a peoples vote.

A general election is completely illogical if you're serious about keeping the UK in the EU. The FPTP system will ensure it ends badly for remain supporters, even if they're in a majority now.

[marinello59]

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Why did you feel the need to point out that both politicians are women. As if their gender had any bearing on what i'm saying?

Wow. It doesn't and if you've ever read my posts on the subject or knew me you will know that I feel very strongly about equality and the way that women politicians are judged differently. So you can withdraw the insinuation that I was being sexist there. Cheers.

[Ozyhibby]

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Labour have already commited themselves to a peoples vote between a tory deal and remain. That can't however happen with constant delays over parliaments approval of the deal itself.

Labour obviously won't back a 2nd referendum. It will end badly for them. The lib dems will gain seats. But where brexit is concerned, It is handing it on a plate to the tories with no option of a peoples vote.

A general election is completely illogical if you're serious about keeping the UK in the EU. The FPTP system will ensure it ends badly for remain supporters, even if they're in a majority now.

Labour has no plan for how we get to a 2nd ref, it’s pie in the sky wishful thinking.


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[Fife-Hibee]

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Wow. It doesn't and if you've ever read my posts on the subject or knew me you will know that I feel very strongly about equality and the way that women politicians are judged differently. So you can withdraw the insinuation that I was being sexist there. Cheers.

No. I think you know full well what you were doing and it's not for the first time either. You've already accused me of having "problems" with female politicians. When I simply point out that they're no more honest than male politicians.

You seem to be under the impression that because these politicians are women, we should hang on their every word. Well I humbly disagree.

[JeMeSouviens]

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If people elect MP's to represent their views, then why bother if they will be ignored because the MP's serve their own interests before their constituents.

If this is the kind of politics that remoaners want then surely they'd be better proposing a dictatorship, then the people can just be ignored on every decision because the political elites know best.

They elect MPs to represent their interests, not represent their views. An MP can't (and shouldn't try to) second guess their constituents views on everything. They should do what they genuinely think is best and if their constituents don't like it, then they have the chance to vote them out at the next election.

Anyway, even on Brexit, many Leave constituencies from 2016 will be Remain now. In your model, how does an MP decide when to change their vote?

[marinello59]

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No. I think you know full well what you were doing and it's not for the first time either. You've already accused me of having "problems" with female politicians. When I simply point out that they're no more honest than male politicians.

You seem to be under the impression that because these politicians are women, we should hang on their every word. Well I humbly disagree.

Time for you to check your facts. Again. . It wasn't me that accused you of having a problem with women politicians. Feel free to apologise for that as well.

[Fife-Hibee]

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Time for you to check your facts. Again. . It wasn't me that accused you of having a problem with women politicians. Feel free to apologise for that as well.

You're an admin are you not? You've never pulled anybody else up for those unfounded accusations. Where's my apology?

[Fife-Hibee]

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Labour has no plan for how we get to a 2nd ref, it’s pie in the sky wishful thinking.

Labours plan was a choice between a tory deal and remain. But that option is off the table, because parliament won't give approval to the tory deal. So that leaves a general election the only option available. Which is bad news for remainers. Because once that is out of the way, the tories will have more than enough to push their own version of brexit through without the need to include a peoples vote option.

[marinello59]

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You're an admin are you not? You've never pulled anybody else up for those unfounded accusations. Where's my apology?

If you can't defend yourself on a political discussion forum maybe you shouldn't be on it. I assume you did respond to whoever it was that made that remark? Did you report it?
Remember this is primarily a football forum but if you have genuine concerns about any post directed towards you then please report it and as always we would take appropriate action.

[RyeSloan]

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Labours plan was a choice between a tory deal and remain. But that option is off the table, because parliament won't give approval to the tory deal. So that leaves a general election the only option available. Which is bad news for remainers. Because once that is out of the way, the tories will have more than enough to push their own version of brexit through without the need to include a peoples vote option.

Your tying yourself in knots here.

What are you proposing should be done and by who?

As so far, from what I can make out, you have slated the Lib Dem (and now SNP) approach, condemned the Tories route and confirmed the Labour plan is dead. ..

[Fife-Hibee]

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Your tying yourself in knots here.

What are you proposing should be done and by who?

As so far, from what I can make out, you have slated the Lib Dem (and now SNP) approach, condemned the Tories route and confirmed the Labour plan is dead. ..

No i'm not, i'm simply pointing out the obvious. The only way a peoples vote could have happened was after the approval of a tory deal in parliament. Which of course never happened.

People are whinging about Labours refusal to back a general election. If anything, it's leavers who should be shouting the loudest about Labours refusal to back one, not remainers. A general election is bad news for remainers and great news for leavers.

[Mibbes Aye]

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You're an admin are you not? You've never pulled anybody else up for those unfounded accusations. Where's my apology?

It wasn’t Marinello59 who accused you of having an issue with female politicians, I think it was me.

The accusation still stands.

[marinello59]

Blackford and Swinson have both given excellent speeches tonight leaving Johnson and Corbyn looking decidedly shifty.

[Callum_62]

Dec12 election didn't get the 2/3 needed
Pm to try again tomorrow

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[Jack]

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Blackford and Swinson have both given excellent speeches tonight leaving Johnson and Corbyn looking decidedly shifty.

They are decidedly shifty. Or at least the folk with their hands up their backs making them work are.

[RyeSloan]

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Dec12 election didn't get the 2/3 needed
Pm to try again tomorrow

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This is getting off the scale ridiculous...reading the report from the BBC just made me shake my head and wonder if any of them have any idea how bloody stupid these endless politicking shenanigans are making them look?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50213548


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[CloudSquall]

Torie's won't agree to an election on the 9th of December, Swinson's ruled out backing an election on the 12th, 3 'kin day difference...