Brexit - What Now.

[Mibbes Aye]

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It's interesting but he came pretty close to an upset in 2017, surely he couldn't have dropped that much in popularity. I personally wish Labour would change leader, they have a few people on there books that would be much more popular to the whole of the UK than Corbyn is

It looks like SNP might take 10 or so seats from the tories, surley the libs will take some in England too. I'd hope it would be closer come the end of the campaign than being forcasted

One thing Johnson really struggles with is scrutiny - 6 weeks of an election campaign could really put the squeeze on

Labour will need an excellent campaign though, which they had last time


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He came nowhere near close to an upset.

He had the biggest shift in the popular vote and the biggest absolute vote share for Labour in a long, long time. The only thing that came close was Blair in 1997 and 2001.

Blair turned that into majorities of over 150. Corbyn ended up fifty seats behind the Tories.

It is all very well getting every twenty year old in Islington to vote for you but it doesn’t translate into power.

[Callum_62]

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He came nowhere near close to an upset.

He had the biggest shift in the popular vote and the biggest absolute vote share for Labour in a long, long time. The only thing that came close was Blair in 1997 and 2001.

Blair turned that into majorities of over 150. Corbyn ended up fifty seats behind the Tories.

It is all very well getting every twenty year old in Islington to vote for you but it doesn’t translate into power.

They gained 30 seats with a 9.6% swing

They came far far closer than anyone predicted

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[Mibbes Aye]

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They gained 30 seats with a 9.6% swing

They came far far closer than anyone predicted

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And abjectly failed., as per the comparison with Tony Blair. Seven years into an austerity government and the best they could do was finish fifty-odd seats behind the Tories?

Swing voters and natural Labour voters who had been turned off by Militant etc, came flooding back under Smith and then Blair.

They are going to the Lib Dems because of Corbyn.

Which I think was the latter point you made - Labour need a leader who doesn’t alienate people (and who doesn't have swivel head loons in the background, manipulating him and the party machinery).

[Ozyhibby]

Lib Dem’s weren’t a force in 2017 but have rehabilitated themselves now. People in England appalled at the thought of Corbyn now have somewhere to go. Labour will suffer.


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[Fife-Hibee]

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Lib Dem’s weren’t a force in 2017 but have rehabilitated themselves now. People in England appalled at the thought of Corbyn now have somewhere to go. Labour will suffer.


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Rehabilitated They do that before every election.

[Hibbyradge]

Exclusive: Brexit: EU prepares to grant UK three-month extension

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...y_to_clipboard

[Callum_62]

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics...mpression=true

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[Frankhfc]

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https://amp.theguardian.com/politics...mpression=true

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Blair, Campbell and Mandelson are to blame for the behind the scenes politicking. They've been attempting to underhandly oust Roland Rudd for some time now.

[marinello59]

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Rehabilitated They do that before every election.

With Sturgeon now standing shoulder to shoulder with Swinson to get an election and dismiss the threat of No Deal are you now accusing her of just playing politics as well?

[Peevemor]

EU agree extension to 31 January.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-50205603

[Ozyhibby]

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EU agree extension to 31 January.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-50205603

Needs to be action now. Every major party has to move towards something. There needs to be either a GE or second vote agreed before the end of the week. This needs to be finished soon whatever way it goes.


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[JeMeSouviens]

Hopefully Johnson picking out a suitable ditch as we speak.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Needs to be action now. Every major party has to move towards something. There needs to be either a GE or second vote agreed before the end of the week. This needs to be finished soon whatever way it goes.


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Or new hung parliament and off we go again ...

[Ozyhibby]

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Or new hung parliament and off we go again ...

That probably results in a 2nd ref.


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[Jack]

Why, on the face of it, are the non Tory parties not just going for a second referendum?

Everyone is already saying it's going to be the most single issue GE there's ever been.

The likelihood is Brexit would be dead in the water. No more hung stuff with the intransigence lying Torys failing miserably to force worse and worse deals though a sceptical parliament.

As a result the Torys would implode, other parties pick up the pieces.

[Ozyhibby]

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Why, on the face of it, are the non Tory parties not just going for a second referendum?

Everyone is already saying it's going to be the most single issue GE there's ever been.

The likelihood is Brexit would be dead in the water. No more hung stuff with the intransigence lying Torys failing miserably to force worse and worse deals though a sceptical parliament.

As a result the Torys would implode, other parties pick up the pieces.

Labour are split.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/brexit_sham/stat...966423552?s=21
They should put Blair in charge of Remain campaign if there is a second ref.

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[Hibbyradge]

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https://twitter.com/brexit_sham/stat...966423552?s=21
They should put Blair in charge of Remain campaign if there is a second ref.

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But Iraq ...

[Ozyhibby]

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But Iraq ...

Not in the EU although I’m sure the leave campaign will try convince us it’s just about to join.


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[Bristolhibby]

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Or new hung parliament and off we go again ...

Beat me to it. An election will sort **** all. Unless the Tories romp home. Then it’s Johnston’s deal at best, pending crashing out at a the end of the years grace period.

J

[JeMeSouviens]

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Why, on the face of it, are the non Tory parties not just going for a second referendum?

Everyone is already saying it's going to be the most single issue GE there's ever been.

The likelihood is Brexit would be dead in the water. No more hung stuff with the intransigence lying Torys failing miserably to force worse and worse deals though a sceptical parliament.

As a result the Torys would implode, other parties pick up the pieces.

Because there are about 30-40 Labour MPs who are either Brexiters or prioritise hanging on to their own seats over a ref#2.

[Mibbes Aye]

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Because there are about 30-40 Labour MPs who are either Brexiters or prioritise hanging on to their own seats over a ref#2.

Yep. Plus the likes of Milne, a castback to the Bennite days , pulling Corbyn’s strings.

[Slavers]

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Because there are about 30-40 Labour MPs who are either Brexiters or prioritise hanging on to their own seats over a ref#2.

Is this the same as representing their constituency, or would you rather they ignored the majority of voters in their constituency and pushed for a ref2?

[Mibbes Aye]

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Is this the same as representing their constituency, or would you rather they ignored the majority of voters in their constituency and pushed for a ref2?

I understand your point but it is an established principle in British parliamentary democracy that MPs are not there to slavishly follow the majority view of their constituents - if that was the case then they would have to conduct mini-referenda before every vote.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Is this the same as representing their constituency, or would you rather they ignored the majority of voters in their constituency and pushed for a ref2?

Yes. An MP's job is to do what they believe is best for their constituents which is not necessarily the same thing as what the majority of their constituents want. Labour's manifesto in 2017 said they would respect ref#1 but negotiate a soft Brexit and explicitly ruled out no deal. They are perfectly within their rights to reject the Tories' hard Brexit which still carries a hidden no-deal threat. And if a ref#2 is the best way to achieve that then so be it.

[Fife-Hibee]

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With Sturgeon now standing shoulder to shoulder with Swinson to get an election and dismiss the threat of No Deal are you now accusing her of just playing politics as well?

The SNP want a tory brexit just as much as Jo Swinson. Just for different reasons. A general election will hand it to them. Both Swinson and our First Minister know this.

[Fife-Hibee]

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Why, on the face of it, are the non Tory parties not just going for a second referendum?

That's what Labour are advocating and it makes the most sense for those who are serious about keeping the UK in the EU. A general election = tory brexit.

[Ozyhibby]

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That's what Labour are advocating and it makes the most sense for those who are serious about keeping the UK in the EU. A general election = tory brexit.

If a 2nd ref was put to a vote in parliament tomorrow then the SNP and Lib Dem’s would all vote for it. Could Labour say the same?


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[Fife-Hibee]

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If a 2nd ref was put to a vote in parliament tomorrow then the SNP and Lib Dem’s would all vote for it. Could Labour say the same?

Of course they would vote for it. They have to be seen as opposing Brexit and even although they'd be slating those Labour MPs who vote it down. They'd secretly be very relieved that they did.

Politics isn't always what it seems on the surface. But so few people read between the lines.

[Mibbes Aye]

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Of course they would vote for it. They have to be seen as opposing Brexit and even although they'd be slating those Labour MPs who vote it down. They'd secretly be very relieved that they did.

Politics isn't always what it seems on the surface. But so few people read between the lines.

There are more than a few Labour MPs who would vote against a second referendum. They don’t have to be seen as opposing it, they are either against it like Hoey and Stringer, or fear deselection or being voted out like Flint.