Brexit - What Now.

[Ozyhibby]

Given the numbers now in Parliament, they should go straight for a 2nd referendum.


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[lapsedhibee]

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IMHO all MPs should be representing their constituencies, and in Scotland every constituency voted remain. Yes, MPs are whipped to toe the party line but if they have a conscience then they represent their constituencies.

If MPs are to be mere mouthpieces for the people, then wouldn't it be more cost effective to have Farage's 'direct democracy' where people press a button on their computer to decide government policy?

[Moulin Yarns]

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Ha, ha. Did anyone see the Sarah Smith piece outside holyrood o on the BBC news?

I really expected someone to have seen it or asked me to explain

Anyways, the bright moment from the news for everyone to enjoy.



Perils of live broadcasting on a momentous night - watch for the cyclist coming in from the left https://t.co/aU1E95EGY7

[Callum_62]

Think the Cherry hearing verdict is due around 10am this morning

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[Ozyhibby]

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/0...mpression=true


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[Callum_62]

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Think the Cherry hearing verdict is due around 10am this morning

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Not unlawful apparently

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[Moulin Yarns]

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Not unlawful apparently

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Lord Doherty says power to prorogue Parliament is justiciable in some circumstances, but not in others. All about context; court can’t measure “high policy and political matters” against legal standards”

https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/sta...77306771918849

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-49568760

[CloudSquall]

Can anyone tell me what the group of Scottish Conservatives have done since being elected?

What have they done to "stand up for Scotland"?

Each and every one of them voting along with Boris last night, an absolute shower of career driven *******s.

Can't wait for a general election to #snpgain these ****s.

[Ozyhibby]

I’m glad the court case failed. This is a political issue and it should be sorted out by politicians. The last thing we want in this country is a politicised judiciary like they have in America.


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[JeMeSouviens]

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IMHO all MPs should be representing their constituencies, and in Scotland every constituency voted remain. Yes, MPs are whipped to toe the party line but if they have a conscience then they represent their constituencies.

"Represent" doesn't mean slavishly follow the perceived majority view though. Imo they should be using their judgement and the time and resources available to them to decide what they think is the best course of action for their constituents and the wider public.

[CloudSquall]

102 amendments added to the Remainer legislation going to the House of Lords, each one needs to be voted on twice, over a 100 hours of "debate" apparently, they are looking to drag it out as long as they can..

[Cataplana]

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102 amendments added to the Remainer legislation going to the House of Lords, each one needs to be voted on twice, over a 100 hours of "debate" apparently, they are looking to drag it out as long as they can..

Taking a stand against abuse of democracy, is not the same thing as saying you want to remain in the EU.

I dread Brexit not happening as it will result in an even bigger sense of grievance amongst those who think the world is against them, and everything they want is ignored, whether it is reasonable, or not.

It could end up in a very dark place.

[JeMeSouviens]

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I’m glad the court case failed. This is a political issue and it should be sorted out by politicians. The last thing we want in this country is a politicised judiciary like they have in America.


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I agree with that but at the same time the prorogation shenanigans yet again shows why having an unwritten constitution that relies on a mixture of convention and trusting politicians to behave "honourably" seems woefully out of date and not fit for purpose.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Taking a stand against abuse of democracy, is not the same thing as saying you want to remain in the EU.

I dread Brexit not happening as it will result in an even bigger sense of grievance amongst those who think the world is against them, and everything they want is ignored, whether it is reasonable, or not.

It could end up in a very dark place.

Whereas letting a bunch of shysters get away with selling their snake oil is just peachy?

[Cataplana]

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Whereas letting a bunch of shysters get away with selling their snake oil is just peachy?

Sorry, I am not sure what point you are making. If it's any help, I want to remain in the European Union, but I also have great fear of a right wing uprising if the thing doesn't go through.

Who are the shysters, and what is the snake oil?

[lapsedhibee]

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Taking a stand against abuse of democracy, is not the same thing as saying you want to remain in the EU.

I dread Brexit not happening as it will result in an even bigger sense of grievance amongst those who think the world is against them, and everything they want is ignored, whether it is reasonable, or not.

It could end up in a very dark place.

Are you saying anything very different there from 'bullies and thugs should always get their way'?

[Cataplana]

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Are you saying anything very different there from 'bullies and thugs should always get their way'?

No, I am saying I am frightened.

This all seems to be heading one way, and I actually started off my post by defending the "rebels" in parliament.

If you stand back it is becoming more and more likely that this will be settled by whoever controls the army, in the end.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Sorry, I am not sure what point you are making. If it's any help, I want to remain in the European Union, but I also have great fear of a right wing uprising if the thing doesn't go through.

Who are the shysters, and what is the snake oil?

The Eurosceptics and the magical ability to have and eat cake.

[Cataplana]

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The Eurosceptics and the magical ability to have and eat cake.

Any chance you could put that into terms the man on the 29 bus can understand? I honestly have no idea what you are saying.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Any chance you could put that into terms the man on the 29 bus can understand? I honestly have no idea what you are saying.

It seems clear to me.

The Brexiteers who expect the UK to be the same, if not better than before Brexit.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Any chance you could put that into terms the man on the 29 bus can understand? I honestly have no idea what you are saying.

Ok, sorry, more typing needed.

What I am saying is that Leave won the EU ref by selling the voters a vision where the UK retained all the economic benefits of EU membership but no longer had to play by any of its rules. Since they deliberately avoided even an outline of how they would achieve this, people had no idea of what they were actually voting for. As soon as you introduce real world trade-offs, eg. single market access vs ending freedom of movement, some of their voters peel off. Any single Brexit option polled never gets a majority.

Imo, if they want to actually Leave, the Brexiters need to come up with a single, achievable plan and put that to a 2nd ref.

[lapsedhibee]

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No, I am saying I am frightened.

This all seems to be heading one way, and I actually started off my post by defending the "rebels" in parliament.

If you stand back it is becoming more and more likely that this will be settled by whoever controls the army, in the end.

Bit pessimistic perhaps. There are some good signs, despite his manager's best efforts to avoid any sort of public scrutiny, that Johnson may be getting found out. Without their charismatic leader the Brexit ultras may pipe down quite a bit, and if they do the remainer ultras will too.

[Cataplana]

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Ok, sorry, more typing needed.

What I am saying is that Leave won the EU ref by selling the voters a vision where the UK retained all the economic benefits of EU membership but no longer had to play by any of its rules. Since they deliberately avoided even an outline of how they would achieve this, people had no idea of what they were actually voting for. As soon as you introduce real world trade-offs, eg. single market access vs ending freedom of movement, some of their voters peel off. Any single Brexit option polled never gets a majority.

Imo, if they want to actually Leave, the Brexiters need to come up with a single, achievable plan and put that to a 2nd ref.

Thanks, wasn't being arsey, I just wanted to be clear.

That sounds like a plan to me.

[Cataplana]

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It seems clear to me.

The Brexiteers who expect the UK to be the same, if not better than before Brexit.

Yes, but you are not me, and I wasn't actually asking you anyway.

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Bit pessimistic perhaps. There are some good signs, despite his manager's best efforts to avoid any sort of public scrutiny, that Johnson may be getting found out. Without their charismatic leader the Brexit ultras may pipe down quite a bit, and if they do the remainer ultras will too.

I pray that it is that simple. I must admit I had hopes that was what I was seeing yesterday, the inevitable car crash that appointing Boris would lead to. Hopefully there is more fun to come, and hopefully even the most die hard "we want ooz koontry back" Brexiteer will see that the thing has to be rethought.

[BroxburnHibee]

I'm no Corbyn fan by any stretch but I've just listened to PMQ's from my sunbed in Lanzarote and that was a masterful performance.

I could almost hear Boris's blood pressure rising through my earphones.

I'm beginning to understand this long game hes playing.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Thanks, wasn't being arsey, I just wanted to be clear.

That sounds like a plan to me.

No worries.

[Mibbes Aye]

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IMHO all MPs should be representing their constituencies, and in Scotland every constituency voted remain. Yes, MPs are whipped to toe the party line but if they have a conscience then they represent their constituencies.

Sorry but that is nonsense. MPs are there to represent all their constituents, not just the ones who voted for them or a stand-alone vote.
By your logic there would be SNP MPs who should be against independence or a referendum in order to respect the votes of their constituents, no? That’s on an assumption that some seats returned SNP MPs but didn’t have a Separate majority.

[Bristolhibby]

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Taking a stand against abuse of democracy, is not the same thing as saying you want to remain in the EU.

I dread Brexit not happening as it will result in an even bigger sense of grievance amongst those who think the world is against them, and everything they want is ignored, whether it is reasonable, or not.

It could end up in a very dark place.

No offence, but F them.

We should not be cowed by what they think.

J

[Cataplana]

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No offence, but F them.

We should not be cowed by what they think.

J

You are not offending me. I agree with what you say, but I fear that many more people don't and will go along with whatever happens to other people to save their own skin.

[Peevemor]

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Sorry but that is nonsense. MPs are there to represent all their constituents, not just the ones who voted for them or a stand-alone vote.
By your logic there would be SNP MPs who should be against independence or a referendum in order to respect the votes of their constituents, no? That’s on an assumption that some seats returned SNP MPs but didn’t have a Separate majority.

So do you think that Malcolm Chisholm was wrong on the occasions that he voted against his party?