As funny as last night is, why are Scottish clubs so bad in Europe?

[wookie70]

The obvious answer is money but I think our style of football which is encouraged by referees is a factor. Take Aberdeen, the third best team in the country. They kick their way through the league every year and hardly ever get men sent off and usually get a dodgy tackle for about 3 or 4 players before the ref decides to book the next bad tackle which is often an opposition player(especially if they are playing Hibs)

Europe comes round and they have to completely change their style. The Rangers have done pretty well in Europe since their return and that is probably due to not having to change their style. Hibs under Lennon didn't do too badly and again we didn't need to change our style. Celtc don't do that badly but are up against decent sides generally.

I think Scottish Football needs to start punishing the hackers and making our product better to watch which may also make us a few more quid from a better TV deal.

[ScottB]

I think there’s still a bit of a dismissive attitude towards the former Soviet bloc nations from our game. Most of them are now markedly better than we are, but I suspect some folk still expect to run over them with ease.

[CMurdoch]

Celtic simply shot themselves in the foot time after time on Tuesday night

In the team selection they took McGregor out of the midfield and put him at full back
McGregor runs the show and keeps the structure of the team together.
Without McGregor, Brown struggles.
Hayes should have been played at left back and McGregor should have played in the midfield.

During the game the absence of McGregor in the midfield was an issue as per the above
and as a result a very average team were able to drag the Celtic backline all over the place.

The other major issue in the defeat was Brown giving a FREE penalty and goal to Cluj by choosing to handle the ball in the box for no reason.
A psychological weakness in the player much like Mackies hand ball on Sunday.

Celtics forward players were magnificent in the 2nd half but soft goals 2 and 3 for Cluj as a result of the above issues simply gave the game away.
I felt sorry for Christie, Eduard and Forrest who couldn't have played any better when Celtic started to go for it in the 2nd half.

The loss was absolutely nothing to do with issues or weaknesses with the Scottish game.

[jgl07]

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It's every other SPL teams fault for not providing enough competition.

And they continue to sell their best players to sit on the bench at Parkhead or Ibrox.

What a load of ********s!

[Hibeesmad]

People outwith Scotland only pay interest to Celtic & Rangers. If McGinn was previously a Celtic player they would have sold him for £10m+

[Onion]

Poor quality players and managers, and far too much focus on domestic issues. Sevco and Celtic and obsessed with each other and 10IAR, Yams can only get it up 4 times a season, Aberdeen are stuck in the 1980s, and other clubs including Hibs lack experience.

[heretoday]

Poor quality players. Look at the class of guy we used to employ back in the day and look at the average joes we're lumbered with now. Celtic are the same albeit on a slightly raised level. If they had got through the other night Slavia would have gubbed them in the next round. The rich have got richer to the detriment of everyone else.

[Antifa Hibs]

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The obvious answer is money but I think our style of football which is encouraged by referees is a factor. Take Aberdeen, the third best team in the country. They kick their way through the league every year and hardly ever get men sent off and usually get a dodgy tackle for about 3 or 4 players before the ref decides to book the next bad tackle which is often an opposition player(especially if they are playing Hibs)

Europe comes round and they have to completely change their style. The Rangers have done pretty well in Europe since their return and that is probably due to not having to change their style. Hibs under Lennon didn't do too badly and again we didn't need to change our style. Celtc don't do that badly but are up against decent sides generally.

I think Scottish Football needs to start punishing the hackers and making our product better to watch which may also make us a few more quid from a better TV deal.

Money to a certain extend but Ajax last season had a smaller wage bill and smaller turnover than Celtic. They pumped Madrid over two legs and were about 8 seconds away from a Champions League final.

Rest of post is spot on.

[Crazyhorse]

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Money to a certain extend but Ajax last season had a smaller wage bill and smaller turnover than Celtic. They pumped Madrid over two legs and were about 8 seconds away from a Champions League final.

Rest of post is spot on.

Your substantive point is pretty much spot on but let’s not compare that pile of fly sh it with a truly great football club.

[theonlywayisup]

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The obvious answer is money but I think our style of football which is encouraged by referees is a factor. Take Aberdeen, the third best team in the country. They kick their way through the league every year and hardly ever get men sent off and usually get a dodgy tackle for about 3 or 4 players before the ref decides to book the next bad tackle which is often an opposition player(especially if they are playing Hibs)

Europe comes round and they have to completely change their style. The Rangers have done pretty well in Europe since their return and that is probably due to not having to change their style. Hibs under Lennon didn't do too badly and again we didn't need to change our style. Celtc don't do that badly but are up against decent sides generally.

I think Scottish Football needs to start punishing the hackers and making our product better to watch which may also make us a few more quid from a better TV deal.

Fully agree. I can think of May's assault on Boyle, Cochrane's on McGinn and the St. Johnstone player's tackle again on McGinn as tackles that should have been reds. Instead they were a "take one for the team" yellow. But all were dangerous tackles and prevented an attack on goals.

[GonzoReturns]

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The obvious answer is money but I think our style of football which is encouraged by referees is a factor. Take Aberdeen, the third best team in the country. They kick their way through the league every year and hardly ever get men sent off and usually get a dodgy tackle for about 3 or 4 players before the ref decides to book the next bad tackle which is often an opposition player(especially if they are playing Hibs)


Europe comes round and they have to completely change their style. The Rangers have done pretty well in Europe since their return and that is probably due to not having to change their style. Hibs under Lennon didn't do too badly and again we didn't need to change our style. Celtc don't do that badly but are up against decent sides generally.

I think Scottish Football needs to start punishing the hackers and making our product better to watch which may also make us a few more quid from a better TV deal.

Until we fundamentally change our whole approach to how the game is coached/played/refereed we will continue to struggle in Europe both at club level and international level.

[Ozyhibby]

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The obvious answer is money but I think our style of football which is encouraged by referees is a factor. Take Aberdeen, the third best team in the country. They kick their way through the league every year and hardly ever get men sent off and usually get a dodgy tackle for about 3 or 4 players before the ref decides to book the next bad tackle which is often an opposition player(especially if they are playing Hibs)

Europe comes round and they have to completely change their style. The Rangers have done pretty well in Europe since their return and that is probably due to not having to change their style. Hibs under Lennon didn't do too badly and again we didn't need to change our style. Celtc don't do that badly but are up against decent sides generally.

I think Scottish Football needs to start punishing the hackers and making our product better to watch which may also make us a few more quid from a better TV deal.

100% correct imo.


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[Hi Heid Yin]

Continental teams are in the main often littered with more technically-gifted players with pace and who appear to move the ball effortlessly from teammate to teammate.
They know how to slow down and speed up a game, when to make those penetrating runs, how to be patient and when to strike. Their speed of thought coupled with their technical ability allows for one-touch football in tight areas, conjuring up goals seemingly out of nothing.
Scottish football can be exciting, but the "100MPH up-and-at-em, gung-ho" approach is often trumped by the "possession-based, incisive, clinical" football of our European counterparts.

[HibsGW]

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Continental teams are in the main often littered with more technically-gifted players with pace and who appear to move the ball effortlessly from teammate to teammate.
They know how to slow down and speed up a game, when to make those penetrating runs, how to be patient and when to strike. Their speed of thought coupled with their technical ability allows for one-touch football in tight areas, conjuring up goals seemingly out of nothing.
Scottish football can be exciting, but the "100MPH up-and-at-em, gung-ho" approach is often trumped by the "possession-based, incisive, clinical" football of our European counterparts.

See, I understand what people mean when they say this but it’s essentially just saying our style of play is rubbish. Why would it be? If these teams play such slow build up surely our gung-ho right at em style would blow them away because they couldn’t handle the pace of our game. There’s different styles and for whatever reason, we normally struggle to impose our style in Europe. I don’t think the up and at em style is the problem because that style is exactly what makes McGinn and Robertson probably our 2 best players. It’s the exact style Liverpool play with, albeit with vastly superior technical ability. At the end of the day there’s no excuse for the result like Celtic got the other day and on paper there is totally no explanation. It’s a complicated problem and thats why I reckon it’s taken so long to fix, it almost comes across as a lack of confidence at times. There’s more than enough quality players in the national team and the Celtic team to defeat the type of opposition they so frequently slip up against.

[where'stheslope]

At the moment we start the season in August and finish at the end of May, why not start the season in March and finish in November?
This way we take out what can be our worst 3 months of the year, and will be ready for the start of European competitions.
If we do well in these competitions, it will be the same as going on to World or European competitions in the summer months!
Other countries cope with it and it seems to give them the upper hand over our teams, so why not at least try it!!!!

[judas]

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Scotland's TV deal is the fourth worst in Europe after Romania, Austria and Russia, and has actually gone DOWN compared to what it used to be. That's why.

This.

And Austria gets a better TV deal the we do.

[Hi Heid Yin]

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See, I understand what people mean when they say this but it’s essentially just saying our style of play is rubbish. Why would it be? If these teams play such slow build up surely ourgung-ho right at em style would blow them away because they couldn’t handle the pace of our game. There’s different styles and for whatever reason, we normally struggle to impose our style in Europe. I don’t think the up and at em style is the problem because that style is exactly what makes McGinn and Robertson probably our 2 best players. It’s the exact style Liverpool play with, albeit with vastly superior technical ability. At the end of the day there’s no excuse for the result like Celtic got the other day and on paper there is totally no explanation. It’s a complicated problem and thats why I reckon it’s taken so long to fix, it almost comes across as a lack of confidence at times. There’s more than enough quality players in the national team and the Celtic team to defeat the type of opposition they so frequently slip up against.

It is a problem when the technical ability is not there.
Too many Scottish teams rely solely on a fast and physical approach, but the continentals can also play at pace, a higher pace in most cases, and can mix it equally, but they additionally have the expertise and skills to follow through and hurt - therein lies the difference.
This said, Sevco, because of the Gerrard influence, are actually playing a more European-type football this season and it is paying dividends.

[brisbanehibs]

I think we are technically and culturally way behind international football generally. My son learned the game down under before we moved home. He was generally technically stronger than his team mates in Scotland of same age and had grown up in a positive, encouraging atmosphere where skill was taught and valued at the expense of competition. Of course the weather helped enormously too as playing in warm weather encouraged a less frantic game with more time on the ball and slower pace. The A League is a good example of this. On returning home he had to grow up very very quickly. His technical skill meant he was targetted by defenders who on more than one occasion were encouraged by coaches to "break his f%cking legs",he had to get used to rutted pitches in winter, parents and coaches who thought it was ok to abuse refs, other kids and other parents, and a coaching system designed to get the ball forward quickly without the need for a midfield - or grass. The state of the pitches made this a necessity sometimes. SFA organisation of junior coaching was and still is shambolic in my view if not non existent at his level....meanwhile we have a national association that has nothing to say on sectarianism in our game, a toxic culture in many Premier League games especialy involving the OF and all in all it feels like we are in a bit of a time warp....feel better now, thanks for listening....😂😁

[Hi Heid Yin]

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I think we are technically and culturally way behind international football generally. My son learned the game down under before we moved home. He was generally technically stronger than his team mates in Scotland of same age and had grown up in a positive, encouraging atmosphere where skill was taught and valued at the expense of competition. Of course the weather helped enormously too as playing in warm weather encouraged a less frantic game with more time on the ball and slower pace. The A League is a good example of this. On returning home he had to grow up very very quickly. His technical skill meant he was targetted by defenders who on more than one occasion were encouraged by coaches to "break his f%cking legs",he had to get used to rutted pitches in winter, parents and coaches who thought it was ok to abuse refs, other kids and other parents, and a coaching system designed to get the ball forward quickly without the need for a midfield - or grass. The state of the pitches made this a necessity sometimes. SFA organisation of junior coaching was and still is shambolic in my view if not non existent at his level....meanwhile we have a national association that has nothing to say on sectarianism in our game, a toxic culture in many Premier League games especialy involving the OF and all in all it feels like we are in a bit of a time warp....feel better now, thanks for listening....😂😁

[CMurdoch]

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Celtic simply shot themselves in the foot time after time on Tuesday night

In the team selection they took McGregor out of the midfield and put him at full back
McGregor runs the show and keeps the structure of the team together.
Without McGregor, Brown struggles.
Hayes should have been played at left back and McGregor should have played in the midfield.

During the game the absence of McGregor in the midfield was an issue as per the above
and as a result a very average team were able to drag the Celtic backline all over the place.

The other major issue in the defeat was Brown giving a FREE penalty and goal to Cluj by choosing to handle the ball in the box for no reason.
A psychological weakness in the player much like Mackies hand ball on Sunday.

Celtics forward players were magnificent in the 2nd half but soft goals 2 and 3 for Cluj as a result of the above issues simply gave the game away.
I felt sorry for Christie, Eduard and Forrest who couldn't have played any better when Celtic started to go for it in the 2nd half.

The loss was absolutely nothing to do with issues or weaknesses with the Scottish game.

Moving on from my above post to directly answer the OP's question "Why are Scottish teams so rubbish in Europe"

The answer is that Celtic & Rangers are not rubbish in Europe but all other Scottish clubs when they get their chance are.

Some degree of order arrived back at Rangers in the form of the persuasive powers of Steven Gerrard.
The result last season was a massive improvement in the Scotland UEFA Coefficient which saw us start last season in 26th place and by the end move up to 20th.
This trend will continue this season. We have already moved up to 19th above Switzerland and will almost certainly overtake Croatia & Serbia by the end of this season to finish in 17th. As usual it all hinges on Celtic & Rangers not messing up in the next round of matches.
Next season i would expect Celtic & Rangers to perform decently again which would see Scotland chase down Greece, Denmark and the Czech Republic to finish in 14th or 15th.
This position will see Scotland awarded an additional European place.

The question the OP should have asked is "Why are Scottish clubs other than Celtic and Rangers so bad in Europe?"
The obvious answer is that they are simply not good or rich enough.
Having said that this seasons other representatives Kilmarnock & Aberdeen both under performed.
Last season Hibs did as well as could have been expected.

Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen are moving into more prosperous times and I am hoping this will see an upturn in their performances in European competition.

By the end of next seasons no country with a population less than Scotland will be ahead of us in the UEFA Coefficient
Bottom line is that Scottish football is much better than many folk give it credit for.

P.S. Scotland are top of the UEFA Coefficient League this season which evidences that we are doing well

[JimBHibees]

Personally think the style of football (overly aggressive, constant fouling, wasting time, stopping free kicks etc) which is allowed in Scotland particularly by weak officials is found out when playing more technical game e.g Aberdeen get papped out by a middling Croatian team while getting a player sent off.

[JimBHibees]

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I think we are technically and culturally way behind international football generally. My son learned the game down under before we moved home. He was generally technically stronger than his team mates in Scotland of same age and had grown up in a positive, encouraging atmosphere where skill was taught and valued at the expense of competition. Of course the weather helped enormously too as playing in warm weather encouraged a less frantic game with more time on the ball and slower pace. The A League is a good example of this. On returning home he had to grow up very very quickly. His technical skill meant he was targetted by defenders who on more than one occasion were encouraged by coaches to "break his f%cking legs",he had to get used to rutted pitches in winter, parents and coaches who thought it was ok to abuse refs, other kids and other parents, and a coaching system designed to get the ball forward quickly without the need for a midfield - or grass. The state of the pitches made this a necessity sometimes. SFA organisation of junior coaching was and still is shambolic in my view if not non existent at his level....meanwhile we have a national association that has nothing to say on sectarianism in our game, a toxic culture in many Premier League games especialy involving the OF and all in all it feels like we are in a bit of a time warp....feel better now, thanks for listening....😂😁

Pretty much nailed it there, absolutely spot on with all points.

[JimBHibees]

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The obvious answer is money but I think our style of football which is encouraged by referees is a factor. Take Aberdeen, the third best team in the country. They kick their way through the league every year and hardly ever get men sent off and usually get a dodgy tackle for about 3 or 4 players before the ref decides to book the next bad tackle which is often an opposition player(especially if they are playing Hibs)

Europe comes round and they have to completely change their style. The Rangers have done pretty well in Europe since their return and that is probably due to not having to change their style. Hibs under Lennon didn't do too badly and again we didn't need to change our style. Celtc don't do that badly but are up against decent sides generally.

I think Scottish Football needs to start punishing the hackers and making our product better to watch which may also make us a few more quid from a better TV deal.

Spot on the clogging teams get away with murder. One good thing about Gerrard is at least he is trying to play the game the right way good passing and possession but fast attacking game.

[jgl07]

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This.

And Austria gets a better TV deal the we do.

I am not surprised at all. The whole game in Scotland has been structured for the benefit of two teams. With one of them away from the Premiership for four years, it has become totally uncompetitive. As a result the product is crap.

Try watching a match on TV between, say, Hamilton and Livingston in front of 1,500 in a two sided stadium. There is next to no noise coming from the crowd. There will be few skills on display.

Ok that doesn’t happen much as most matches televised are OF away games. This has contributed to the downward spiral.

[DH1875]

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This.

And Austria gets a better TV deal the we do.

Its already been established in the thread that we are in fact not the 4th worst.

Apparently Celtics annual wage bill is over £12 million more than the ENTIRE wage bill for the Romanian league. There's no real reason other than, they blew it.