Bus drivers strike

[Fife-Hibee]

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The drivers are trying to show the bosses that if they treat them like **** this will be the consequences, no buses on the road. Do you think theyve all went on strike over 1 incident? I thought you were the all seeing eye Fifey, you have a conspiracy theory for everything but in this case your blaming the little guys on the front line.

How do you know they're being "treated like ****"? Are you a bus driver? Do you have first hand experience? Can you trust the opinions of bus drivers to be completely impartial and unbiased in their claims?

Who knows. If you actually knew the details of the situation you'd perhaps come to the conclusion that they're not really being bullied at all and are making a big fuss over things that everybody in the working sector has to deal with.

But we don't know do we? Because the details aren't there. You're just assuming that they're given an unfair time based on nothing more than their own personal claims that they are.

[makaveli1875]

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I'm simply adding balance. Sure, it may make me the odd one out on the thread. But I don't care. You're all quick to jump onto the "poor employee" stereotype without being able to present any real facts surrounding the situation.

I'm offering people the opportunity to consider that it may not all be a simple case of poor worker vs big evil management. I'm sure the situation is far more complicated than what is being presented here.

If you don't care about detail and just want to jump on a bandwagon, then that's your right to do so. But at least be honest about it.

Odd to see you take the side of the evil oppressor though for all the greeting you do about big evil Westminster and the poor oppressed Scots .

[Fife-Hibee]

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Odd to see you take the side of the evil oppressor though for all the greeting you do about big evil Westminster and the poor oppressed Scots .

The "evil oppressor".

Once again, just believing whatever you want to believe without any details or fact to back up your assertion.

My disdain for Westminster is (believe it or not) based on real actual events that have unfolded right in front of our eyes. Not basic claims with no details surrounding the situations.

[lord bunberry]

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How do you know they're being "treated like ****"? Are you a bus driver? Do you have first hand experience? Can you trust the opinions of bus drivers to be completely impartial and unbiased in their claims?

Who knows. If you actually knew the details of the situation you'd perhaps come to the conclusion that they're not really being bullied at all and are making a big fuss over things that everybody in the working sector has to deal with.

But we don't know do we? Because the details aren't there. You're just assuming that they're given an unfair time based on nothing more than their own personal claims that they are.

Are you a manager at Lothian Buses?

[Fife-Hibee]

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Are you a manager at Lothian Buses?

No, i'm just somebody who likes details before making self righteous assumptions. It's all too easy to side with the poor wee employee when there's no effort to gather all of the information to form a well informed opinion.

The bus drivers may well be getting treated poorly. But so far, all we've had are claims and people making assumptions around those claims. We also haven't heard from the managements perspective either, which could well shed a whole different light onto the situation.

I just think it would be sensible to withhold the pitchforks until we know exactly what the deal is here. Does that not seem like the more mature, grown up thing to do?

[Hibbyradge]

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No, i'm just somebody who likes details before making self righteous assumptions.

[lord bunberry]

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No, i'm just somebody who likes details before making self righteous assumptions. It's all too easy to side with the poor wee employee when there's no effort to gather all of the information to form a well informed opinion.

The bus drivers may well be getting treated poorly. But so far, all we've had are claims and people making assumptions around those claims. We also haven't heard from the managements perspective either, which could well shed a whole different light onto the situation.

I just think it would be sensible to withhold the pitchforks until we know exactly what the deal is here. Does that not seem like the more mature, grown up thing to do?

I hope the strike is long and bitter, I might get a wee winter break in the sun.

[Lester B]

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No, i'm just somebody who likes details before making self righteous assumptions.

Wow.

[WeeRussell]

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How do you know they're being "treated like ****"? Are you a bus driver? Do you have first hand experience? Can you trust the opinions of bus drivers to be completely impartial and unbiased in their claims?

Who knows. If you actually knew the details of the situation you'd perhaps come to the conclusion that they're not really being bullied at all and are making a big fuss over things that everybody in the working sector has to deal with.

But we don't know do we? Because the details aren't there. You're just assuming that they're given an unfair time based on nothing more than their own personal claims that they are.

But isn't 90%+ of the workforce's stance the best account or 'details' we're likely to obtain?

[Danderhall Hibs]

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But isn't 90%+ of the workforce's stance the best account or 'details' we're likely to obtain?

It was 91% of the 63% of union members, so in reality we’ll below 90% of the workforce. According to Lothian buses it’s 693 of the workforce (there are 1709 union members and many more not in the union.)

[makaveli1875]

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How do you know they're being "treated like ****"? Are you a bus driver? Do you have first hand experience? Can you trust the opinions of bus drivers to be completely impartial and unbiased in their claims?

Who knows. If you actually knew the details of the situation you'd perhaps come to the conclusion that they're not really being bullied at all and are making a big fuss over things that everybody in the working sector has to deal with.

But we don't know do we? Because the details aren't there. You're just assuming that they're given an unfair time based on nothing more than their own personal claims that they are.

Im not a bus driver myself so no 1st hand experience but I know a few mechanics and bus drivers at LRT and the picture they paint isn't great. I always assumed a bit of exaggeration, we all like a good moan about our employer after all but it would seem there is something in it after all.

[Hibbyradge]

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It was 91% of the 63% of union members, so in reality we’ll below 90% of the workforce. According to Lothian buses it’s 693 of the workforce (there are 1709 union members and many more not in the union.)

603 of 1709 isn't 91% of 63%.

91% of 63% equates to 57.33% of the total union membership so someone is telling porkies.

Probably the workers. (Just adding balance).

[WeeRussell]

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It was 91% of the 63% of union members, so in reality we’ll below 90% of the workforce. According to Lothian buses it’s 693 of the workforce (there are 1709 union members and many more not in the union.)

ah - makes sense

[Lester B]

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It was 91% of the 63% of union members, so in reality we’ll below 90% of the workforce. According to Lothian buses it’s 693 of the workforce (there are 1709 union members and many more not in the union.)

The turnout was 63% and of those 91% voted in favour of strike action. As a trade union full timer, not for Unite, I'd be delighted with that turnout and majority. Unite's press release said they have 1700 members approximately eligible to strike as part of the bargaining unit. By my sums 963 voted for the action therefore but all 1700 can take part in any strike

[Hibbyradge]

603 might be the number of union members who didn't vote or maybe the number of non union members, or maybe the number of union members who didn't vote combined with non union members.

So many numbers and percentages, it's an easy mistake for the benevolent and upstanding management to make.

[Future17]

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Where have I even taken a side on this thread? I'm simply offering an alternative for people to get their heads around. Nobody has to agree with it. I'm not even suggesting that I agree with it. But for the purpose of balance i'm putting it out there and I couldn't care less if you don't like it.

One of your initial posts on this thread stated, “perhaps it’s more sensible to know the actual details before jumping on the bandwagon?” You later added that “nobody really knows any of the details” behind the proposed strike and stated you hadn't heard any examples of unjust reprimands from managers.

However, you were then provided with such examples and your position became that it didn't matter whether a policy was unjust, an employee would have to accept responsibility for being sacked if they didn't adhere to that policy. You followed that up by saying “the drivers are being treated in a way that they would be in almost any other line of work”.

Your claim to be playing some kind of devil’s advocate on this thread, rather than just trying to get a reaction from other posters, would be a lot more credible if you could maintain a consistent position in that regard.

[Future17]

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603 might be the number of union members who didn't vote or maybe the number of non union members, or maybe the number of union members who didn't vote combined with non union members.

So many numbers and percentages, it's an easy mistake for the benevolent and upstanding management to make.

Nice edit.

[Hibbyradge]

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Nice edit.

Aye, I don't have my reading glasses on so I misunderstood the previous post. 🤓

[Lester B]

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Aye, I don't have my reading glasses on so I misunderstood the previous post. 🤓

Have you got them on now. I could recommend a good book

[Future17]

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Aye, I don't have my reading glasses on so I misunderstood the previous post. 🤓

Sorry, I actually thought you'd edited your prior post to change the last line, but I see it's still there. :-)

[Hibbyradge]

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Sorry, I actually thought you'd edited your prior post to change the last line, but I see it's still there. :-)

Ha ha I actually wasn't sure what you were referring to, but I make so many mistakes, I just accepted your reprimand.

I am an innocent man after all!

[Lester B]

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Ha ha I actually wasn't sure what you were referring to, but I make so many mistakes, I just accepted your reprimand.

I am an innocent man after all!

Well some say you are unkind but you are being as nice as you can

[Hibbyradge]

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Well some say you are unkind but you are being as nice as you can

Got a light?

[Smartie]

I'm with Fife.

It isn't healthy to assume that either the drivers or management are at fault without knowing more facts.

With the benefit of further information, either situation could be the case.

We don't know much, other than a few anecdotes shared on here.

[McD]

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I'm simply adding balance. Sure, it may make me the odd one out on the thread. But I don't care. You're all quick to jump onto the "poor employee" stereotype without being able to present any real facts surrounding the situation.

I'm offering people the opportunity to consider that it may not all be a simple case of poor worker vs big evil management. I'm sure the situation is far more complicated than what is being presented here.

If you don't care about detail and just want to jump on a bandwagon, then that's your right to do so. But at least be honest about it.

Yes, let’s focus on detail for a moment, since you are keen to do so. In detail, can you show me where I’ve indicated support for the drivers or management on this thread. You know, since you’ve just accused me of jumping on a bandwagon and being dishonest about it.


Also, adding balance isn’t the same as being impartial. your posts have demonstrated the opposite of impartiality, as M59 demonstrated earlier. If you’d said in the first place you were adding balance, then no one would have challenged what you’ve said, but you have claimed impartiality, which is definitely not what you’ve exhibited.

[Cataplana]

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I'm simply adding balance. Sure, it may make me the odd one out on the thread. But I don't care. You're all quick to jump onto the "poor employee" stereotype without being able to present any real facts surrounding the situation.

I'm offering people the opportunity to consider that it may not all be a simple case of poor worker vs big evil management. I'm sure the situation is far more complicated than what is being presented here.

If you don't care about detail and just want to jump on a bandwagon, then that's your right to do so. But at least be honest about it.

Firstly, people have been presenting facts on the situation, often from experience as former drivers, or based on what friends have told them. You rightly point out the perils of any employee posting on social media, so hardly surprising that you aren't getting a flood of current employees coming on to provide facts.

I'd like to thank you for your offer to consider alternative explanations to the one I didn't offer. Thanks, but as you don't provide any facts or examples to back that point up, I am no closer to the point of view you would like me to take. Can you possibly fill in the missing parts of the picture?

I am somebody that likes detail, and I have to say that you just cast around with empty phrases that sound like you are maybe making an argument, when in fact all you are doing is saying there may be an argument to be had.

Perhaps if you knew the background to how the current management structure at LRT was developed, you might start to appreciate that it is entirely possible that a bunch of tossers are currently running the company.

The previous board were ousted due to political machinations by a tram supporting cabal on the council, led by the discredited former provost Lesley Hinds. The previous management had gained the respect of their drivers, and the move to empty them out when they were doing a great job (Britain's Best Bus Company) was never going to be popular.

The service has declined since their arrival, with popular routes disappearing and being replaced by airport services instead. Drivers are disciplined for the most petty breaches of policy, meanwhile the management can breach the same policies with impunity.

I suspect you are something a wind up merchant, as you often appear to take both sides in an argument, frequently contradicting yourself in the space of a couple of posts. I would welcome balance on this thread, but don't kid yourself you are providing it.

[Cataplana]

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I'm with Fife.

It isn't healthy to assume that either the drivers or management are at fault without knowing more facts.

With the benefit of further information, either situation could be the case.

We don't know much, other than a few anecdotes shared on here.

Careful Now!

[beensaidbefore]

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I'm not sure what your post means, have I only spoke to jobless people?

The post you replied to said people were willing to give up a day's wageto make a stand. You commented that everyone you had spoke to had sympathy with the strikers. I figured that opinion may change if they are forced to take a day off from work because they had no means of getting there.

I have no idea who you canvassed, but I can think of a few people who don't get paid unless they attend work. Makes life hell of a difficult for carers etc who may need to get to multiple locations throughout the day and rely on the bus to get them there.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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The post you replied to said people were willing to give up a day's wageto make a stand. You commented that everyone you had spoke to had sympathy with the strikers. I figured that opinion may change if they are forced to take a day off from work because they had no means of getting there.

I can only imagine they would've considered that before voicing an opinion.

[Jack]

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I'm simply adding balance. Sure, it may make me the odd one out on the thread. But I don't care. You're all quick to jump onto the "poor employee" stereotype without being able to present any real facts surrounding the situation.

I'm offering people the opportunity to consider that it may not all be a simple case of poor worker vs big evil management. I'm sure the situation is far more complicated than what is being presented here.

If you don't care about detail and just want to jump on a bandwagon, then that's your right to do so. But at least be honest about it.

In my opinion you're one of the most unbalanced posters on this site.

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Not taking sides though. My points are pretty much impartial. The drivers are being treated in a way that they would be in almost any other line of work. You can't rubbish a manager that you don't have much of an established relationship with over the internet and expect not to be pulled up for it when somebody reports that information to him/her.

I've asked repeatedly on this thread what the drivers are actually aiming to accomplish through this strike action and nobody seems to know. Despite siding with them over the issue.

I know people who work there. There's lots of examples of really dodgy goings on. Do you think it would be wise given the current culture at Lothian and given someone has already been sacked for stuff online to come on here and give details?