Drug deaths in Scotland highest in EU

[G B Young]

This makes for very depressing reading:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48938509

What can be done to better address what is a devastating issue for so many people?

[makaveli1875]

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This makes for very depressing reading:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48938509

What can be done to better address what is a devastating issue for so many people?

Getting to root of why so many people in Scotland feel the need to take drugs would be a good start

[Curried]

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This makes for very depressing reading:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48938509

What can be done to better address what is a devastating issue for so many people?

Independence for Scotland.

[makaveli1875]

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Independence for Scotland.

I forgot independence will fix all of Scotlands problems. The junkies are just waiting for independence day so they can throw down their needles and bin the bacofoil

[RyeSloan]

The spike in the last 4 years or so must be a clue as to what’s going on. It’s almost doubled in that time.

It was on a gradual rise but that spike is something else.

I do wonder about the stars though from other EU countries and wonder if the standard ‘better reporting’ line is responsible for the unwanted top of the charts billing.

[James310]

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Independence for Scotland.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/s...ucial-18206845

[Ozyhibby]

Decriminalise all drugs. Take supply away from criminal gangs and start treating it like a health issue. Look to countries like Portugal and Switzerland for solutions.
The money saved on policing drug gangs, smuggling, violent crime etc can be put to proper rehab programmes.
Tax weed to help the public finances as well.
Let’s be grown up and admit prohibition does not work and enriches gangsters.



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[stokesmessiah]

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Decriminalise all drugs. Take supply away from criminal gangs and start treating it like a health issue. Look to countries like Portugal and Switzerland for solutions.
The money saved on policing drug gangs, smuggling, violent crime etc can be put to proper rehab programmes.
Tax weed to help the public finances as well.
Let’s be grown up and admit prohibition does not work and enriches gangsters.



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This. It is an absolute no brainer.

[Pretty Boy]

Regulate recreational drugs and educate people on how they can be taken safely. There is no reason why a drug like ecstasy in it's proper form has to kill anyone if there is some very simple advice given. It's when you get impure crap that all kinds of problems start. For drugs such as heroin and crack offer safe areas for people to do what they need to do, provide alcohol wipes, clean injecting equipment, other items required and make it clear that whenever they want to stop there is help available.

The 'war on drugs' is unwinnable in it's current form. You can't strip away people's consumer choice simply by making a product illegal. There is blatant hypocrisy as well when you see the health and social issues associated with alcohol and tobacco but both of those remain legal. Like many issues in this country we seem scared to have grown up conversations and consider alternatives. 'Tougher laws and tougher sentences' isn't the answer. If people want or need to take drugs they will do so regardless of the potential consequences. Why not accept that, take away as much of the power as possible from drug dealers and regulate and tax it as an industry like any other?

[SHODAN]

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Decriminalise all drugs. Take supply away from criminal gangs and start treating it like a health issue. Look to countries like Portugal and Switzerland for solutions.
The money saved on policing drug gangs, smuggling, violent crime etc can be put to proper rehab programmes.
Tax weed to help the public finances as well.
Let’s be grown up and admit prohibition does not work and enriches gangsters.



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Yup - unfortunately this will not happen for a long time.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Yup - unfortunately this will not happen for a long time.

It might if the power to do it lay in Scotland. There's next to no chance of UK gov run by Tories doing it though.

[Fife-Hibee]

In a country where opportunities are systematically kept to a bare minimum for young people, is it any surprise to anyone that there is such a major drug issue here?

Young people are not invested in. We're not given the budget that allows us to invest in young people. We have a UK Government that only takes care of their own (the OAPs that vote for them).

So it's either turn away and leave this country, or stay here and have no real prospects in life and turn to whatever is available to pass the time.

[Sylar]

The article highlights a key part of the problem being aging trouble users (primarily between the ages of 35-54). It also emphasises a "desensitisizing" and the clamour for something stronger than what addicts have been taking for years (leading to experimentation with unknown drugs or cocktails).

This is very much in the territory of a "wicked problem". It's not just policy, it's not just finances, it's not just access, it's not just socioeconomic conditions and it's not just regulation and criminal status of particular drugs - it's a combination of all of the above with variance in each addict.

Legalisation and taxation won't solve the problem on its own - since legalisation of marijuana in California, counts of other drug abuse have grown almost exponentially. Just like the problem, the solution is far from simple.

But sure, Westmonster...

[Fife-Hibee]

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The article highlights a key part of the problem being aging trouble users (primarily between the ages of 35-54). It also emphasises a "desensitisizing" and the clamour for something stronger than what addicts have been taking for years (leading to experimentation with unknown drugs or cocktails).

This is very much in the territory of a "wicked problem". It's not just policy, it's not just finances, it's not just access, it's not just socioeconomic conditions and it's not just regulation and criminal status of particular drugs - it's a combination of all of the above with variance in each addict.

Legalisation and taxation won't solve the problem on its own - since legalisation of marijuana in California, counts of other drug abuse have grown almost exponentially. Just like the problem, the solution is far from simple.

But sure, Westmonster...

So you don't think the devolution of drug laws to Scotland could help us to manage things better compared to the current arrangement where we have no control over it at all?

Seeing as drug laws are reserved to the UK government. Shouldn't the headline be "UK region has highest drug related deaths in the EU".

[Mibbes Aye]

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In a country where opportunities are systematically kept to a bare minimum for young people, is it any surprise to anyone that there is such a major drug issue here?

Young people are not invested in. We're not given the budget that allows us to invest in young people. We have a UK Government that only takes care of their own (the OAPs that vote for them).

So it's either turn away and leave this country, or stay here and have no real prospects in life and turn to whatever is available to pass the time.

Interestingly, part of the continuous rise in deaths is the increasing number of older fatalities who have been using drugs for decades.

Another factor appears to be the rise of poly drug use, where people are taking combinations that wasn’t the case in the past, This is partly linked to accessibility through the internet. Crazy as it sounds but before the rise of online purchasing there was a relatively stable quality control in that product got diluted. Online makes it a roll of the dice as to the strength and toxicity.

I think turning it into a Westminater/Holyrood thing is missing the point. Legislation is reserved but approaches to treatment are devolved and actually sit beyond Holyrood, with Alcohol and Drug Partnerships that tend to be based around local authority areas or sometimes, local authorities working in partnership with one another where there are economies of scale. They are generally made up of council staff, health board staff, third sector agencies and the police.

I actually wonder about the role of Police Scotland in all this. Generally speaking, the police have tended to opt for pragmatism when it comes to the interface between public health and criminality. I think that’s the right approach. When the service became a national body however, we did see some shifts - they adopted a much harder line in relation to the saunas and the women working there than Lothian and Borders did. Adopting a harder line in drug addiction won’t solve anything IMO.

There was a good article in today’s Guardian that critiques all sides of the debate, I will post a link to it later.

[JeMeSouviens]

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The article highlights a key part of the problem being aging trouble users (primarily between the ages of 35-54). It also emphasises a "desensitisizing" and the clamour for something stronger than what addicts have been taking for years (leading to experimentation with unknown drugs or cocktails).

This is very much in the territory of a "wicked problem". It's not just policy, it's not just finances, it's not just access, it's not just socioeconomic conditions and it's not just regulation and criminal status of particular drugs - it's a combination of all of the above with variance in each addict.

Legalisation and taxation won't solve the problem on its own - since legalisation of marijuana in California, counts of other drug abuse have grown almost exponentially. Just like the problem, the solution is far from simple.

But sure, Westmonster...

No, but treating drug use as primarily a health problem rather than a crime problem, as in Portugal, has worked.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...orld-copied-it
https://transformdrugs.org/drug-decr...cord-straight/

The problem is not Westminster government per se, it's reactionary Tories.

[Mibbes Aye]

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So you don't think the devolution of drug laws to Scotland could help us to manage things better compared to the current arrangement where we have no control over it at all?

Seeing as drug laws are reserved to the UK government. Shouldn't the headline be "UK region has highest drug related deaths in the EU".

Westminster legislation is voted on by MPs, and Scotland has a proportionate representation there, based on it being part of a union.

Saying ‘we’ have no control over it is facile. I am also unsure why you think that every Scots MP would vote the same way and vote in opposition to every English MP as that seems to be your suggestion, but that is obviously nonsense.

[Mibbes Aye]

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No, but treating drug use as primarily a health problem rather than a crime problem, as in Portugal, has worked.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...orld-copied-it
https://transformdrugs.org/drug-decr...cord-straight/

The problem is not Westminster government per se, it's reactionary Tories.

It’s not really reactionary Tories, it is far more complex than that.

Today’s Guardian article

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...related-deaths

[Fife-Hibee]

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Westminster legislation is voted on by MPs, and Scotland has a proportionate representation there, based on it being part of a union.

Saying ‘we’ have no control over it is facile. I am also unsure why you think that every Scots MP would vote the same way and vote in opposition to every English MP as that seems to be your suggestion, but that is obviously no.

Well I guess we wouldn't know would we? Seeing as our "proportionate representation" clearly doesn't count for anything when it comes to managing drug problems in Scotland.

[Mibbes Aye]

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Well I guess we wouldn't know would we? Seeing as our "proportionate representation" clearly doesn't count for anything when it comes to managing drug problems in Scotland.

Managing the problem sits with ADPs and the relationship between police, health boards, social work and the voluntary sector organisations who are commissioned to carry out the majority of case work.

[JeMeSouviens]

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It’s not really reactionary Tories, it is far more complex than that.

Today’s Guardian article

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...related-deaths

The drug abuse problem is complex. The refusal to countenance anything beyond a prohibition, "war on drugs" policy is because of reactionary Tories.

[Fife-Hibee]

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Managing the problem sits with ADPs and the relationship between police, health boards, social work and the voluntary sector organisations who are commissioned to carry out the majority of case work.

It also sits with funding availability and the power to alter legislation surrounding drug laws and control.

[Mibbes Aye]

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It also sits with funding availability and the power to alter legislation surrounding drug laws and control.

ADP funding comes from Scottish Government. Legislation regarding controlled drugs sits with Westminster, that is correct, but has always been interpreted in pragmatic ways by police and local services, usually on an informal and unstated basis.

[Mibbes Aye]

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The drug abuse problem is complex. The refusal to countenance anything beyond a prohibition, "war on drugs" policy is because of reactionary Tories.

This isnt a big issue for me but I would bet my mortgage that there are voters of every hue and persuasion who back a zero tolerance to drug misuse. I suspect there are many voters in the more deprived parts of our lands who would never countenance voting Tory, but live alongside the day to day impact of prolific drug use and all that comes with it and would happily be punitive in their approach.

[Fife-Hibee]

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ADP funding comes from Scottish Government. Legislation regarding controlled drugs sits with Westminster, that is correct, but has always been interpreted in pragmatic ways by police and local services, usually on an informal and unstated basis.

No funding comes from the Scottish Government. It comes from Westminster and the Scottish Government redistributes it. There's no use kidding on this isn't a UK wide issue. Other parts of the UK are struggling with their own drug epidemics and it all links to this outdated "war on drugs" mantra from a UK Government that retains it's outdated "values".

[Mibbes Aye]

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No funding comes from the Scottish Government. It comes from Westminster and the Scottish Government redistributes it. There's no use kidding on this isn't a UK wide issue. Other parts of the UK are struggling with their own drug epidemics and it all links to this outdated "war on drugs" mantra from a UK Government that retains it's outdated "values".

The death rate in Scotland is more than three times that in England and Wales.

[Fife-Hibee]

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The death rate in Scotland is more than three times that in England and Wales.

Yes, now break it down a bit more. How does it compare to London? Or Manchester? Or Liverpool?

If you compare it to England on a whole, then yes, it's worse. But the issues south of the border are focused more around particular regions. They'll be regions that are every bit as bad as Scotland.

[Sylar]

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Yes, now break it down a bit more. How does it compare to London? Or Manchester? Or Liverpool?

If you compare it to England on a whole, then yes, it's worse. But the issues south of the border are focused more around particular regions. They'll be regions that are every bit as bad as Scotland.

Do you have a link to any relevant data for those regions? I would genuinely be interested in having a look at how the large urban areas of England compare to those in the rUK.

[Fife-Hibee]

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Do you have a link to any relevant data for those regions? I would genuinely be interested in having a look at how the large urban areas of England compare to those in the rUK.

No, because they won't break the data down this way. I've seen lists highlighting the worst areas in England for drug and alcohol use. But no comparable statistics to Scotland.

Why would they? When they can just compare Scotland (a region of the UK) to England as a whole and tell us how much worse we are? Instead of actually comparing Scotland (a region of the UK) to similar sized regions across England.

[Ozyhibby]

The Scottish govt have asked for this power to devolved numerous times and the request has always been denied. This is a classic case of a problem in Scotland, identified as such by a majority of our elected representatives with a potential solution ready to go that is being denied by the Westminster govt.
I doubt there is a more clear cut case of the union not working to our benefit.


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