Tories are lying *******s (warning may contain traces of Tory)

[grunt]

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[Peevemor]

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Pathetic post.

Show me the rules that say it's mandatory to post on other forums on here.

You think it's healthy that other points of view are represented, apart from mine.

There are plenty on here who are the opposite of me in their anti Union and anti Tory stance, but your comfortable with them because they are on the same side as you.

A truly awful post.

Your on ignore from now on.

I don't know how I'll sleep tonight.

He still didn't answer my question either.

[The Modfather]

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There's a lot of racism, bigotry and intolerance in Scotland. It's nonsense to suggest that being born north of the border somehow renders people more multicultural.

The fact that people who openly admit that their default position is to dislike/hate "The English" are tolerated, even on this forum, in itself debunks the myth that we're all Jock Tamson's bairns.

FWIW, I know loads of English people, none of whom are racist.

To be fair, anecdotally, I'd say we have a bigger sectarian problem than England does and they have a bigger problem with racism than we do. That doesn't make us better or worse than the English (we're better for many other reasons ), just means we have different problems but a commonality that neither issue belongs in 2019.

[The Modfather]

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Pathetic post.

Show me the rules that say it's mandatory to post on other forums on here.

You think it's healthy that other points of view are represented, apart from mine.

There are plenty on here who are the opposite of me in their anti Union and anti Tory stance, but your comfortable with them because they are on the same side as you.

A truly awful post.

Your on ignore from now on.

To be fair, I think it’s a valid question Peevemor asked. I raised a similar point on the Positives Of The Union thread, asking why for someone as active on here as you are your posts are almost exclusively about Scottish Independence despite the many threads discussing other things, namely Brexit. Not long after you decided you would stop posting on that thread.

Are you a better together activist?

[Jack]

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Pathetic post.

Show me the rules that say it's mandatory to post on other forums on here.

You think it's healthy that other points of view are represented, apart from mine.

There are plenty on here who are the opposite of me in their anti Union and anti Tory stance, but your comfortable with them because they are on the same side as you.

A truly awful post.

Your on ignore from now on.

This is a community of like-minded football fans.

By not contributing to the discussions with the wider community it's not surprising some members of that community are expressing concern that your reason for being here is questionable.

[James310]

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To be fair, I think it’s a valid question Peevemor asked. I raised a similar point on the Positives Of The Union thread, asking why for someone as active on here as you are your posts are almost exclusively about Scottish Independence despite the many threads discussing other things, namely Brexit. Not long after you decided you would stop posting on that thread.

Are you a better together activist?

I have posted plenty on Brexit.

No, not a better together activist.

Just try to balance out the obvious left wing, pro Independence stance on here. There are obviously a few more who perhaps get their points across better than I do. There is a lot of hypocrisy from all politicians and I believe that most if not all would go unnoticed if not pointed out.

As for the positive of the Union thread I saw it for what it was, same as why do people vote conservative. I am not buttoned up the back. I contributed but was no matter what I put down people will disagree as they are as strong Indy as I am anti Indy. So at some point it gets pointless, it reached that point. Just like people may ignore me if they believe I am repeating the same thing over and over, I will do the same.

Apologies if you don't like my style but it is what it is.

Maybe a break is required. I am away on holiday soon and promised the wife and kids I won't be on my phone so probably a good opportunity to do so. But as Arnie said, I will be back. I won't be silenced by a few posters who disagree with what I say.

[Hibbyradge]

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I have posted plenty on Brexit.

No, not a better together activist.

Just try to balance out the obvious left wing, pro Independence stance on here. There are obviously a few more who perhaps get their points across better than I do. There is a lot of hypocrisy from all politicians and I believe that most if not all would go unnoticed if not pointed out.

As for the positive of the Union thread I saw it for what it was, same as why do people vote conservative. I am not buttoned up the back. I contributed but was no matter what I put down people will disagree as they are as strong Indy as I am anti Indy. So at some point it gets pointless, it reached that point. Just like people may ignore me if they believe I am repeating the same thing over and over, I will do the same.

Apologies if you don't like my style but it is what it is.

Maybe a break is required. I am away on holiday soon and promised the wife and kids I won't be on my phone so probably a good opportunity to do so. But as Arnie said, I will be back. I won't be silenced by a few posters who disagree with what I say.

I was being genuine when I asked people to give their reasons for voting Tory. Naive maybe, but genuine.

[Hibbyradge]

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I have posted plenty on Brexit.

No, not a better together activist.

Just try to balance out the obvious left wing, pro Independence stance on here. There are obviously a few more who perhaps get their points across better than I do. There is a lot of hypocrisy from all politicians and I believe that most if not all would go unnoticed if not pointed out.

As for the positive of the Union thread I saw it for what it was, same as why do people vote conservative. I am not buttoned up the back. I contributed but was no matter what I put down people will disagree as they are as strong Indy as I am anti Indy. So at some point it gets pointless, it reached that point. Just like people may ignore me if they believe I am repeating the same thing over and over, I will do the same.

Apologies if you don't like my style but it is what it is.

Maybe a break is required. I am away on holiday soon and promised the wife and kids I won't be on my phone so probably a good opportunity to do so. But as Arnie said, I will be back. I won't be silenced by a few posters who disagree with what I say.

Are you a Hibs fan?

[Peevemor]

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Are you a Hibs fan?

I asked before. He said he is, but I find it strange that someone with such strong opinions on certain subjects has absolutely nothing to say when it comes to Hibs.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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I have posted plenty on Brexit.

No, not a better together activist.

Just try to balance out the obvious left wing, pro Independence stance on here. There are obviously a few more who perhaps get their points across better than I do. There is a lot of hypocrisy from all politicians and I believe that most if not all would go unnoticed if not pointed out.

As for the positive of the Union thread I saw it for what it was, same as why do people vote conservative. I am not buttoned up the back. I contributed but was no matter what I put down people will disagree as they are as strong Indy as I am anti Indy. So at some point it gets pointless, it reached that point. Just like people may ignore me if they believe I am repeating the same thing over and over, I will do the same.

Apologies if you don't like my style but it is what it is.

Maybe a break is required. I am away on holiday soon and promised the wife and kids I won't be on my phone so probably a good opportunity to do so. But as Arnie said, I will be back. I won't be silenced by a few posters who disagree with what I say.

All are welcome in the Hibs family. It isn't the Old Firm whereby fans are expected to subscribe to a set of political/religious beliefs in order to be accepted. Fundamentally we are football club, not a political party, and supporting the team is the only requirement. Being a Conservative doesn't make you any less a Hibby; your beliefs are your own business. Having said that, it shouldn't come as a shock that the majority seem to hold progressive/left of centre views, given Scotland's political landscape and Hibs' history of being Edinburgh's immigrant/anti-establishment club. Tories are pretty thin on the ground in the central belt, once you leave Ibrox.

[Fife-Hibee]

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I asked before. He said he is, but I find it strange that someone with such strong opinions on certain subjects has absolutely nothing to say when it comes to Hibs.

In his defence, it's the most dire time of the year when it comes to club football. Mostly just ramblings and transfer rumours, same as every year at this time.

[Peevemor]

Oooooh! She's getting humpty now...

[Curried]

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Bit harsh, pal. Surely we welcome diversity, including diverse opinions?

My apologies H&A, I do welcome all opinions, but the opinions proffered are *****.

[Hibrandenburg]

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I wonder if the English think the majority of Scots are a bunch of sectarian bigots?

In my subjective experience yes. I've lost count of the amount of times I've been asked if I support Rangers or Celtic, even after I've told them I'm a Hibby.

[Hibrandenburg]

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That is a decent point.

We have a cultural acceptance of certain types of bigotry in Scotland, which makes it harder to point the finger elsewhere.

I don't know whose racism problem is worse overall but the 2 are certainly different. I have a few Scottish/ Asian mates who would all swear that they experience significantly less racism than family members of theirs do down South. Having said that, would you fancy your chances much in Larkhall or Kilwinning if you were from the emerald isle? It may be that Scots express less anti-English sentiment than vice versa but the attitude our Union Flag wielding hun chums display towards the Irish means that we can't really claim too much moral high ground here. A fair bit of islamophobia has crept in amongst this mob too.

Not sure exactly what side of what argument I'm on here.

It shouldn't come as a surprise that a nation that has been on the end of a divide and conquer policy for centuries, actually hates it's own people more than others. Sectarianism is a product of the Union.

[Callum_62]

https://twitter.com/tomcopley/status...768502786?s=09

So bad it should be laughable

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[JeMeSouviens]

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He's the man who would have led us into the supposedly sunny new world of an independent Scotland had the result gone the other way in 2014. If found guilty of any or all of the 14 charges he faces it would have been irrelevant had the allegations surfaced before or after he took up the highest political position in the country.

If he’s guilty of any of the things he’s charged with he should and will end up in jail, not high office.

[Mibbes Aye]

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It shouldn't come as a surprise that a nation that has been on the end of a divide and conquer policy for centuries, actually hates it's own people more than others. Sectarianism is a product of the Union.

Oh please! Give us a reasoned case for that rather than sound bites.

’Westminster made my Rab an Orangeman’, really???

Given education and religion in our civic society are explicitly framed from a Scottish perspective and were before and after devolution, how are you going to back that up?

More interestingly, you expose the fracture in the nationalist narrative.

On the one hand you claim there is this progressive, enlightened nation that would flourish free of the shackles of England and Westminster (yeah).

On the other hand, as your post says, you claim we are riven with hatred for one another.

Which is it?

And probably most importantly, you talk about Scottish people hating each other more than hating others. I’m hoping I’m not picking you up right but surely we shouldn’t want to be hating any people regardless?

[Hibernia&Alba]

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https://twitter.com/tomcopley/status...768502786?s=09

So bad it should be laughable

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He's obviously lying through his teeth too. His hobby is adultery.

[Fife-Hibee]

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Oh please! Give us a reasoned case for that rather than sound bites.

’Westminster made my Rab an Orangeman’, really???

Given education and religion in our civic society are explicitly framed from a Scottish perspective and were before and after devolution, how are you going to back that up?

More interestingly, you expose the fracture in the nationalist narrative.

On the one hand you claim there is this progressive, enlightened nation that would flourish free of the shackles of England and Westminster (yeah).

On the other hand, as your post says, you claim we are riven with hatred for one another.

Which is it?

And probably most importantly, you talk about Scottish people hating each other more than hating others. I’m hoping I’m not picking you up right but surely we shouldn’t want to be hating any people regardless?

Why do you keep using the term "nationalist"? Thanks to brexit, we're now all officially nationalists including yourself. Whether you're behind an independent Scotland, or Scotland remaining in a UK that is about to break off from Europe. You are backing a form of nationalism.

Also, there's a difference between what is and what should be. Once again, you're confusing reality with your own idealistic view of the world. Scots really are their own worst enemies. It's not a question of whether we should be or not. We quite simply are.

[Hibrandenburg]

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Oh please! Give us a reasoned case for that rather than sound bites.

’Westminster made my Rab an Orangeman’, really???

Given education and religion in our civic society are explicitly framed from a Scottish perspective and were before and after devolution, how are you going to back that up?

More interestingly, you expose the fracture in the nationalist narrative.

On the one hand you claim there is this progressive, enlightened nation that would flourish free of the shackles of England and Westminster (yeah).

On the other hand, as your post says, you claim we are riven with hatred for one another.

Which is it?

And probably most importantly, you talk about Scottish people hating each other more than hating others. I’m hoping I’m not picking you up right but surely we shouldn’t want to be hating any people regardless?

Yes, you're not picking me up correctly. Other than Jambos and Sunderland fans, I'd like to think I've never shown animosity towards groups of people.

You're surely not denying that London has been dividing Scottish opinion and loyalties for centuries? The bigotry and sectarianism that is rife throughout Scotland is a product that has its roots in English expansionism that dates back at least 700 years. We've been pitted against each other for centuries, not to say we wouldn't have been anyway but not in the form we've inherited today. Nobleman against Nobleman with promises of land, power and influence, Highlander against Lowlander, Stuart against Hannover, rich against poor, Catholic against Protestant and Nationalist against Unionist. All factors still scarring our contemporary society and mirrored in Ireland. Maybe we should ask ourselves why sectarianism in the republic of Ireland is becoming a thing of the past but is still rife in the north?

[Peevemor]

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In his defence, it's the most dire time of the year when it comes to club football. Mostly just ramblings and transfer rumours, same as every year at this time.

I'd agree with you if he posted anything Hibs or even football related during the season.

He doesn't. His posts are almost exclusively anti-SNP/independence, which is why I question whether he has his place on hibs.net (and it's nothing to do with his political views).

[Moulin Yarns]

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Oh please! Give us a reasoned case for that rather than sound bites.

’Westminster made my Rab an Orangeman’, really???

Given education and religion in our civic society are explicitly framed from a Scottish perspective and were before and after devolution, how are you going to back that up?

More interestingly, you expose the fracture in the nationalist narrative.

On the one hand you claim there is this progressive, enlightened nation that would flourish free of the shackles of England and Westminster (yeah).

On the other hand, as your post says, you claim we are riven with hatred for one another.

Which is it?

And probably most importantly, you talk about Scottish people hating each other more than hating others. I’m hoping I’m not picking you up right but surely we shouldn’t want to be hating any people regardless?

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Yes, you're not picking me up correctly. Other than Jambos and Sunderland fans, I'd like to think I've never shown animosity towards groups of people.

You're surely not denying that London has been dividing Scottish opinion and loyalties for centuries? The bigotry and sectarianism that is rife throughout Scotland is a product that has its roots in English expansionism that dates back at least 700 years. We've been pitted against each other for centuries, not to say we wouldn't have been anyway but not in the form we've inherited today. Nobleman against Nobleman with promises of land, power and influence, Highlander against Lowlander, Stuart against Hannover, rich against poor, Catholic against Protestant and Nationalist against Unionist. All factors still scarring our contemporary society and mirrored in Ireland. Maybe we should ask ourselves why sectarianism in the republic of Ireland is becoming a thing of the past but is still rife in the north?

To settle the argument , It was the Act of Settlement 1701 that started the whole sectarian problem in the UK when it was decided that catholics were forever banned from ever sitting upon the English (and then British) throne. If only King Billy had it in him to sire a child it may never have happened

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_of_Settlement_1701

[Fife-Hibee]

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I'd agree with you if he posted anything Hibs or even football related during the season.

He doesn't. His posts are almost exclusively anti-SNP/independence, which is why I question whether he has his place on hibs.net (and it's nothing to do with his political views).

Hard to say. I know facebook and twitter are rife with anti-independence trolls who spend 24/7 attacking any pro-independence posts. Their attacks seem very well planned and coordinated as well, definitely something going on. I'm sure we're all familiar with "Simon Gillespie" and "Del Rashid" amongst other names that seem to be everywhere.

[Mibbes Aye]

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Yes, you're not picking me up correctly. Other than Jambos and Sunderland fans, I'd like to think I've never shown animosity towards groups of people.

You're surely not denying that London has been dividing Scottish opinion and loyalties for centuries? The bigotry and sectarianism that is rife throughout Scotland is a product that has its roots in English expansionism that dates back at least 700 years. We've been pitted against each other for centuries, not to say we wouldn't have been anyway but not in the form we've inherited today. Nobleman against Nobleman with promises of land, power and influence, Highlander against Lowlander, Stuart against Hannover, rich against poor, Catholic against Protestant and Nationalist against Unionist. All factors still scarring our contemporary society and mirrored in Ireland. Maybe we should ask ourselves why sectarianism in the republic of Ireland is becoming a thing of the past but is still rife in the north?

It is crazy how nationalists switch from criticising their opponents for portraying the Scottish people as weak and malleable, then choose to describe the Scottish people as weak and malleable themselves.

The point about sectarianism was touched upon in other posts relating to racism. I think it is irrefutable that these fractures often arise, and this is the case around the world, when there is extensive immigration or the perception of extensive immigration by people who can be portrayed as ‘other’ or ‘different’.

Some people will automatically be threatened by that, which is tragic but doesn’t make it any less true. More sinisterly, some people will manipulate that fear to strengthen their own position or status. That happens at every level and isn’t some remote, dastardly plot by ‘London’., whatever that means.

As for sectarianism in the south of Ireland, the proportion of Protestants is so small that it is impossible to create a narrative around existential threat, it would be ludicrous. There’s a bunch of other factors but that is probably the biggest and crudest one.

I do agree with you to an extent in terms of Britain’s colonial history. Clear evidence of a policy and practice of ‘divide and conquer’ in far-flung lands. And of course that classic Yes Minister sketch about Britain’s role in Europe

[Jack]

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Hard to say. I know facebook and twitter are rife with anti-independence trolls who spend 24/7 attacking any pro-independence posts. Their attacks seem very well planned and coordinated as well, definitely something going on. I'm sure we're all familiar with "Simon Gillespie" and "Del Rashid" amongst other names that seem to be everywhere.

One of the first parties to effectively use social media was, if I remember correctly, was the SNP in 2007. I think they've fallen well behind these days ... well behind the Russians anyway!!!

[Fife-Hibee]

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One of the first parties to effectively use social media was, if I remember correctly, was the SNP in 2007. I think they've fallen well behind these days ... well behind the Russians anyway!!!

The Russians, the US and the UK. But then, how can they compete with that?

[ronaldo7]

Scottish Tories suggesting a boycott of the proposed citizens assemblies.

What are they scared of?

[Fife-Hibee]

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Scottish Tories suggesting a boycott of the proposed citizens assemblies.

What are they scared of?

Great idea! In fact, they should just boycott Scotland altogether. That'll show us.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Great idea! In fact, they should just boycott Scotland altogether. That'll show us.

Looks like they already have.


https://twitter.com/fr4ser/status/1143859270934511616?s=09