Tories are lying *******s (warning may contain traces of Tory)

[Hibrandenburg]

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While I don't disagree more generally with your argument, I'd just like to add a caveat that our most recent vote on military action in the Commons was to reject intervention in Syria to support the US after Assad's use of chemical weapons.

Yet the first known coalition casualties in Syria were 2 British soldiers.

[Moulin Yarns]

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You can not join the EU using the currency of a country outside the EU, using a central bank of a country outside the EU.

If we get our own currency and meet all the other criteria then yes we can join, just like everyone else.

Just need to pass those 6 tests.

Is there any evidence to back that up, about the currency? As far as I, and others, can see you are the only one stating it as fact.

[lord bunberry]

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Also..I am not going to change my position on Independence overnight on the basis of what one man, who is not even confirmed as the PM, might do. Would you flip from pro Indy to being against Indy on the basis of what one person might do, what might happen? I doubt you would, so why are you so shocked that I don't.

I very much doubt you’ll ever change from no to yes, but we live in hope

[James310]

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Is there any evidence to back that up, about the currency? As far as I, and others, can see you are the only one stating it as fact.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...rejoin-the-eu/



"If Scotland had kept the pound sterling, but the UK was outside the EU, then Scotland would not be able to demonstrate that it could commit to join the euro at some indefinite future point.

Nor – if it took up to a decade to adopt its own currency – could it show that as a member state it would use its independent monetary policy to target price stability and make its exchange rate a ‘matter of common concern’ with other member states (as required by the EU’s Lisbon treaty)."

There you go. So first point is SNP policy, keep the pound for a period of time until the 6 tests are met. No EU membership while we have the pound.

Second point, if we get our own currency, let's say 20 years (if you think that's too long tell us why) then it's another period of transition to show you can meet all the other criteria.

Do you seriously think the EU would let a country join while using the currency of a country outside the EU, while having no central bank and therefore no monetary and fiscal policy of its own. Infact the fiscal and monetary policy controlled by another country outside the EU.

Scotland will be able to join the EU like any other country, if it meets the criteria. It's just going to take a very long time. But funnily enough you never hear the SNP talk about that.

[lord bunberry]

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https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...rejoin-the-eu/



"If Scotland had kept the pound sterling, but the UK was outside the EU, then Scotland would not be able to demonstrate that it could commit to join the euro at some indefinite future point.

Nor – if it took up to a decade to adopt its own currency – could it show that as a member state it would use its independent monetary policy to target price stability and make its exchange rate a ‘matter of common concern’ with other member states (as required by the EU’s Lisbon treaty)."

There you go. So first point is SNP policy, keep the pound for a period of time until the 6 tests are met. No EU membership while we have the pound.

Second point, if we get our own currency, let's say 20 years (if you think that's too long tell us why) then it's another period of transition to show you can meet all the other criteria.

Do you seriously think the EU would let a country join while using the currency of a country outside the EU, while having no central bank and therefore no monetary and fiscal policy of its own. Infact the fiscal and monetary policy controlled by another country outside the EU.

Scotland will be able to join the EU like any other country, if it meets the criteria. It's just going to take a very long time. But funnily enough you never hear the SNP talk about that.

You do hear the EU talking about Scotland not having any issues joining though.

[James310]

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You do hear the EU talking about Scotland not having any issues joining though.

If it meets the criteria yes, why wouldn't they allow Scotland to join if they meet the criteria? Just like any other country.

[lord bunberry]

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If it meets the criteria yes, why wouldn't they allow Scotland to join if they meet the criteria? Just like any other country.

You’re making a lot of assumptions on behalf of what the EU will decide if Scotland is using sterling post independence.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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Feel the love!A poem published by Boris Johnson when he was editor of Spectator magazine.

The Scotch - what a verminous race!

Canny, pushy, chippy, they're all over the place.

Battening off us with false bonhomie;

Polluting our stock, undermining our economy.

Down with sandy hair and knobbly knees!

Suppress the tartan dwarves and the Wee Frees!

Ban the kilt, the skean-dhu and the sporran

As provocatively, offensively foreign!

It's time Hadrian's Wall was refortified

To pen them in a ghetto on the other side.

I would go further. The nation

Deserves not merely isolation

But comprehensive extermination.

We must not flinch from a solution.

WTF is that? Is meant to be funny to the weirdos who read The Spectator?

[James310]

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You’re making a lot of assumptions on behalf of what the EU will decide if Scotland is using sterling post independence.

I am not making any assumptions, it's the EUs own criteria.

[Sylar]

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Yet the first known coalition casualties in Syria were 2 British soldiers.

I'm perhaps just missing this story, but to the best of my (albeit, quick) research abilities, I can only find one official British serviceman that was killed in Syria, and that was in March 2018? The only record I can see of two British personnel being killed are journalists?

Regardless, it was hardly the full scale deployment we've seen in the other combat situations you've cited. The UK military did not deploy to Syria in a government backed move.

[Bristolhibby]

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Is there any evidence to back that up, about the currency? As far as I, and others, can see you are the only one stating it as fact.

It’s not true. You have to be working toward the Euro. Which can go on forever.

Let’s put it in perspective. Sweden has been “working towards the Euro”, it still has the Swedish Crown.

J

[Moulin Yarns]

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It’s not true. You have to be working toward the Euro. Which can go on forever.

Let’s put it in perspective. Sweden has been “working towards the Euro”, it still has the Swedish Crown.

J

I know that, you know that, but still we have people saying otherwise.

[James310]

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It’s not true. You have to be working toward the Euro. Which can go on forever.

Let’s put it in perspective. Sweden has been “working towards the Euro”, it still has the Swedish Crown.

J

The Swedish crown is its own currency. It's not a similar situation until we get our own currency. How long will that take in your opinion and why?

[JeMeSouviens]

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Is there any evidence to back that up, about the currency? As far as I, and others, can see you are the only one stating it as fact.

No there’s no evidence. It’s blatant, shameless lying. On and on and on ...

[Moulin Yarns]

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No there’s no evidence. It’s blatant, shameless lying. On and on and on ...

Yep, and on and on and on.........

[James310]

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Yep, and on and on and on.........

So what's a lie? You never replied until the others did, jumping on the bandwagon there.

So how long until we get our own currency and be like Sweden?

[JeMeSouviens]

Accession criteria for the EU

https://ec.europa.eu/neighbourhood-e...on-criteria_en

Nothing about currency (surprise!) as that is to do with Eurozone membership. Which isn’t the same thing, no matter how often Goebbels310 repeats themselves.

[Moulin Yarns]

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So what's a lie? You never replied until the others did, jumping on the bandwagon there.

So how long until we get our own currency and be like Sweden?

Now who is trolling 🤔😁

[Moulin Yarns]

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Accession criteria for the EU

https://ec.europa.eu/neighbourhood-e...on-criteria_en

Nothing about currency (surprise!) as that is to do with Eurozone membership. Which isn’t the same thing, no matter how often Goebbels310 repeats themselves.

🤔😉

[James310]

Chapter 17

"The acquis in the area of economic and monetary policy contains specific rules requiring the independence of central banks in Member States, prohibiting direct financing of the public sector by the central banks and prohibiting privileged access of the public sector to financial institutions. Member States are expected to co-ordinate their economic policies and are subject to the Stability and Growth Pact on fiscal surveillance. New Member States are also committed to complying with the criteria laid down in the Treaty in order to be able to adopt the euro in due course after accession. Until then, they will participate in the Economic and Monetary Union as a Member State with a derogation from the use of the euro and shall treat their exchange rates as a matter of common concern."

While we continue to have Sterling the Bank of England will be our central bank, that's not our own independent central bank as per the rules above, it's the central bank of another country.

When we get our own currency we need to agree to adopt the Euro, like it says above. To be like Sweden and never actually commit to it we need our own currency, like Sweden has, to get our own currency we need to pass 6 tests that could take decades.

This debate was about how quickly Scotland could join the EU, with someone saying it would be quickly, the evidence suggests otherwise.

It's SNP policy to only introduce a new currency once the 6 tests have been met, who wants to take a stab at explaining those tests and how long they think they will take to meet and pass? Anyone?

[heretoday]

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Chapter 17

"The acquis in the area of economic and monetary policy contains specific rules requiring the independence of central banks in Member States, prohibiting direct financing of the public sector by the central banks and prohibiting privileged access of the public sector to financial institutions. Member States are expected to co-ordinate their economic policies and are subject to the Stability and Growth Pact on fiscal surveillance. New Member States are also committed to complying with the criteria laid down in the Treaty in order to be able to adopt the euro in due course after accession. Until then, they will participate in the Economic and Monetary Union as a Member State with a derogation from the use of the euro and shall treat their exchange rates as a matter of common concern."

While we continue to have Sterling the Bank of England will be our central bank, that's not our own independent central bank as per the rules above, it's the central bank of another country.

When we get our own currency we need to agree to adopt the Euro, like it says above. To be like Sweden and never actually commit to it we need our own currency, like Sweden has, to get our own currency we need to pass 6 tests that could take decades.

This debate was about how quickly Scotland could join the EU, with someone saying it would be quickly, the evidence suggests otherwise.

It's SNP policy to only introduce a new currency once the 6 tests have been met, who wants to take a stab at explaining those tests and how long they think they will take to meet and pass? Anyone?

I can't see the SNP hurrying to explain these things to us. They like to give the impression that after a quick referendum, "a rush and a push and the world is ours" - to quote the bard.

[James310]

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I can't see the SNP hurrying to explain these things to us. They like to give the impression that after a quick referendum, "a rush and a push and the world is ours" - to quote the bard.

Like the Brexiteers, it will all be fine and Brussels will make a special case for us. It will be dead easy.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Like the Brexiteers, it will all be fine and Brussels will make a special case for us. It will be dead easy.

Talking of Brexiteers? How is that working out for you?

[James310]

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Talking of Brexiteers? How is that working out for you?

I have been consistently against Brexit, never voted for it and think it's a terrible idea. We should be aiming to stay in political, economic and social unions, don't you agree?

[The Modfather]

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I have been consistently against Brexit, never voted for it and think it's a terrible idea. We should be aiming to stay in political, economic and social unions, don't you agree?

Yes, but your opinion on the economic suicide of Brexit and a no deal Brexit can be summed up as, “yes, it’s a bit sh*t but it is what it is” where as “Independence will be Armageddon”.

I don’t see the same level of balance on both subjects from you IMO. Although you’re not alone as some of the SNP supporters do exactly the same.

[James310]

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Yes, but your opinion on the economic suicide of Brexit and a no deal Brexit can be summed up as, “yes, it’s a bit sh*t but it is what it is” where as “Independence will be Armageddon”.

I don’t see the same level of balance on both subjects from you IMO. Although you’re not alone as some of the SNP supporters do exactly the same.

I accept democracy as well. Both were voted on via referendums and we voted to Leave so I accept that. I do think a no deal could be as bad as it gets though, Armageddon as you say? perhaps....let's pray that never happens. Indy would make a bad situation much worse.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I'm not following the Tory leadership debate on Channel 4, but I see they've left an empty podium where Bozo was supposed to be. What a comtemptuous and cowardly thing to refuse to participate.

[Fife-Hibee]

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I'm not following the Tory leadership debate on Channel 4, but I see they've left an empty podium where Bozo was supposed to be. What a comtemptuous and cowardly thing to refuse to participate.

As I said a couple of days ago. He doesn't have to turn up to them. They're utterly meaningless. The leadership will be won on the bribery and backstabbing that goes on behind the scenes. Not what is said on a podium in front of cameras.

[Callum_62]

Watched some of the debate.

Rory Stewart by far the most impressive

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[Mibbes Aye]

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Watched some of the debate.

Rory Stewart by far the most impressive

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Caught the second half.

Hunt was probably most statesmanlike and appeared very magnanimous when stepping in after Gove was challenged about his cocaine dabbling.

Gove got carried away a couple of times and dropped a clanger when answering the question from the woman with a son on the autistic spectrum.

Saj actually wasn’t terrible, within context. Raab seemed out on a limb.

Stewart seemed to have a barnstormer, albeit I didn’t see the whole programme. This could be a real breakthrough moment for him. He certainly did very well in setting a narrative of him being the ‘honest outsider’ which probably helps given I picked up that Saj had challenged him earlier in the debate on being Eton and Oxford-educated.