Tories are lying *******s (warning may contain traces of Tory)

[James310]

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I broadly agree with what he said, and I broadly agree with what he says in general.

So you agreed with what he said, even although you completely misinterpreted what he said. That makes perfect sense.

[The Modfather]

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The latter at the moment, Boris is bad news, but no point jumping from the frying pan into the fire. I think he will be limited in the damage he can do if he becomes PM but the damage that Sturgeon and Co would do will be like nothing we have never seen before.

Also he will move on, he will maybe last a few years but the damage Sturgeon and her cronies would do to the economy would last for generations to come.

That clear enough for you?

What about the damage Cameron and May have caused with Brexit that will effect generations to come? Independence might or night not be the answer but a post Brexit (particularly in the event of a no deal) UK is just as big a risk as an independent Scotland IMO.

[James310]

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What about the damage Cameron and May have caused with Brexit that will effect generations to come? Independence might or night not be the answer but a post Brexit (particularly in the event of a no deal) UK is just as big a risk as an independent Scotland IMO.

Brexit was a bad idea, why make it worse?

[Fife-Hibee]

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Why would I say that when that's not what I mean or implied. You do like making stuff up don't you.

It is what you meant though. Because the political stance you're taking supports just that.

You say that the damage from Boris will be limited and will only last a few years. But seem to have the idea that an independent Scotland will be forever ruled under the thumb of Nicola Sturgeon with no safe guards in place to circumvent her level of authority.

You're making the conscious decision to back an anti-scottish racist (rejected by Scotland) having authority over Scotland as opposed to a soverign Scotland where votes actually matter.

Why do you hate Scotland so much?

[Hibrandenburg]

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The latter at the moment, Boris is bad news, but no point jumping from the frying pan into the fire. I think he will be limited in the damage he can do if he becomes PM but the damage that Sturgeon and Co would do will be like nothing we have never seen before.

Also he will move on, he will maybe last a few years but the damage Sturgeon and her cronies would do to the economy would last for generations to come.

That clear enough for you?

Boris is bad news? Understatement of the year. If Nicola Sturgeon posted a ditty about ethnically cleansing Scotland of the English on her Twitter feed then I might get where you're coming from. The fact that you'd prefer someone who is a self confessed Scotland hater ahead of someone who clearly has Scotland's interests at heart to govern Scotland sums you up quite nicely. Nothing you say now could convince me that you care a toss about the people in Scotland, instead your precious union would seem to be all you care about.

[James310]

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It is what you meant though. Because the political stance you're taking supports just that.

You say that the damage from Boris will be limited and will only last a few years. But seem to have the idea that an independent Scotland will be forever ruled under the thumb of Nicola Sturgeon with no safe guards in place to circumvent her level of authority.

You're making the conscious decision to back an anti-scottish racist (rejected by Scotland) having authority over Scotland as opposed to a soverign Scotland where votes actually matter.

Why do you hate Scotland so much?

Thanks for telling me what I really mean, that's really helpful.

I don't hate Scotland, could say the same to you as why do you want to subject the nation to an economic nightmare. I am trying to save Scotland.

[James310]

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Boris is bad news? Understatement of the year. If Nicola Sturgeon posted a ditty about ethnically cleansing Scotland of the English on her Twitter feed then I might get where you're coming from. The fact that you'd prefer someone who is a self confessed Scotland hater ahead of someone who clearly has Scotland's interests at heart to govern Scotland sums you up quite nicely. Nothing you say now could convince me that you care a toss about the people in Scotland, instead your precious union would seem to be all you care about.

But your wrong in my opinion, Scotland as a nation would likely be bankrupt if we followed Sturgeon. Only a £30BN budget gap from the White Paper and our first Prime Minister potentially facing jail time for serious sexual offences.

How would that gap have been funded?

[Fife-Hibee]

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Thanks for telling me what I really mean, that's really helpful.

I don't hate Scotland, could say the same to you as why do you want to subject the nation to an economic nightmare. I am trying to save Scotland.

You are subjecting Scotland to an economic nightmare. Not only are you subjecting Scotland to an economic nightmare, you're subjecting us to a race war under a modern day fascist.

The way you word your point of view is irrelevant. It doesn't change the fact that you view Boris Johnson as a better option over Scottish sovereignty. You are holding a racist in higher regard than Scotlands ability to govern itself.

[Fife-Hibee]

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But your wrong in my opinion, Scotland as a nation would likely be bankrupt if we followed Sturgeon. Only a £30BN budget gap from the White Paper and our first Prime Minister potentially facing jail time for serious sexual offences.

How would that gap have been funded?

Well it's a good thing the UK doesn't have a major funding gap that's about to grow ever wider. How lucky we are to be in a union that imposes a funding gap on us, rather than us having control over it ourselves.

[James310]

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Well it's a good thing the UK doesn't have a major funding gap that's about to grow ever wider. How lucky we are to be in a union that imposes a funding gap on us, rather than us having control over it ourselves.

So how would that £30BN gap have been funded? Tax increase, public spending cuts?

[Fife-Hibee]

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So how would that £30BN gap have been funded? Tax increase, public spending cuts?

How is the UK gap being funded? It isn't. Instead, we have a tory government that is cutting taxes, public services and ultimately shrinking down the state as much as possible.

If it's not an immediate urgency of the UK Government to close the UK wide funding gap, then why would it be any different for an independent Scotland?

[James310]

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How is the UK gap being funded? It isn't. Instead, we have a tory government that is cutting taxes, public services and ultimately shrinking down the state as much as possible.

If it's not an immediate urgency of the UK Government to close the UK wide funding gap, then why would it be any different for an independent Scotland?

Stop turning my questions into your questions. I answered your question directly, can you do the same? If you don't want to answer just say so.

[The Modfather]

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Brexit was a bad idea, why make it worse?

Ultimately it comes down to an independent Scotland finding its feet, but still in the EU (I’ve seen enough to make me confident we would welcomed in and quickly) v staying in the UK but one that’s not in the EU.

Both are a risk so it’s just down to what leap of faith each of us choose.

[marinello59]

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Not really. The vast majority of the anti-independence brigade get their jollies from good ole Scottish racism. They'll be cheering his every breath as Prime Minister.

That’s really poor stuff from you again. 55% of our fellow Scots took a different view on Independence from me and you. Suggesting the vast majority of them are racist is just plain wrong.
I might be wrong though so please back that up with some facts. Are there polls showing this?

[Fife-Hibee]

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Stop turning my questions into your questions. I answered your question directly, can you do the same? If you don't want to answer just say so.

There is nothing wrong with my answer. You're the one showing incredible levels of whataboutery here. Quit acting like the deficit only exists for an independent Scotland. It already exists within the UK. The only difference is, Scotland doesn't have the means to deal with the deficit in it's own way. So it continues to grow as long as we remain part of the UK.

We can either remain in a UK, ran by a government that is rejected by Scotland. Cutting taxes on the wealthiest and shifting as much of the deficit burden on the poor as they can. OR we can leave the UK and piece together our own government who will use more progressive measures for getting our deficit down.

Either way, there's a deficit. It's just a question of who is better placed to deal with it and based on what i've witnessed in my life time, it's not Westminster and their different shades of tory.

[James310]

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Ultimately it comes down to an independent Scotland finding its feet, but still in the EU (I’ve seen enough to make me confident we would welcomed in and quickly) v staying in the UK but one that’s not in the EU.

Both are a risk so it’s just down to what leap of faith each of us choose.

How quickly is 'quickly'? We would need our own currency and that could take years. The 6 tests that have been set out for us to adopt our own currency could take 20 years or longer to meet.

[weecounty hibby]

Just a general thought on independence, not even necessarily Scottish. But has there ever been a nation that gained independence, say for example from Great Britain, that has wanted to reverse that decision? Maybe, Australia? What about New Zealand? India, yes of course they must have wanted to be ruled by England, you know the Jewell in the crown of the empire? Maybe some of the smaller countries? Some in the Caribbean maybe? What about some of the African countries? I know what about a country right on our doorstep, Ireland? Really, none of them? But surely they are bankrupt and need to be bailed out by the greats of Westminster? How can they manage without being told what to do, when to do it and how much money they can have to do it? Maybe I'm just a wee bit confused and unable to work any of that out for myself. I'm sure there will be someone along soon to put me right and explain how lucky I am

[James310]

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There is nothing wrong with my answer. You're the one showing incredible levels of whataboutery here. Quit acting like the deficit only exists for an independent Scotland. It already exists within the UK. The only difference is, Scotland doesn't have the means to deal with the deficit in it's own way. So it continues to grow as long as we remain part of the UK.

We can either remain in a UK, ran by a government that is rejected by Scotland. Cutting taxes on the wealthiest and shifting as much of the deficit burden on the poor as they can. OR we can leave the UK and piece together our own government who will use more progressive measures for getting our deficit down.

Either way, there's a deficit. It's just a question of who is better placed to deal with it and based on what i've witnessed in my life time, it's not Westminster and their different shades of tory.

So that's you saying no, you won't answer it. See it's annoying when someone tells you what you really mean.

[Fife-Hibee]

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That’s really poor stuff from you again. 55% of our fellow Scots took a different view on Independence from me and you. Suggesting the vast majority of them are racist is just plain wrong.
I might be wrong though so please back that up with some facts. Are there polls showing this?

I don't care if it's "really poor stuff" in your view. If you want a poll that proves that the Scottish residents prefer an anti-scottish racist dictating over them as opposed to their own countries soverignty. Then just look at the vast majority of polls that still show that Scottish Independence is out of favour.

[Fife-Hibee]

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So that's you saying no, you won't answer it. See it's annoying when someone tells you what you really mean.

I have answered your question. An independent Scotland would have the ability to vote in a government that uses more progressive measures for dealing with the deficit than what we're currently being exposed to by the mafia in London.

[James310]

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I have answered your question. An independent Scotland would have the ability to vote in a government that uses more progressive measures for dealing with the deficit than what we're currently being exposed to by the mafia in London.

More progressive measures like what? Ones that raise £30BN?

[weecounty hibby]

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I don't care if it's "really poor stuff" in your view. If you want a poll that proves that the Scottish residents prefer an anti-scottish racist dictating over them as opposed to their own countries soverignty. Then just look at the vast majority of polls that still show that Scottish Independence is out of favour.

That is a long way from what you say though. There is no evidence that the majority of the 55 are racist. They just would rather, foolishly in my opinion, rather stay in the union. Having Johnson as PM is just a sad function of that. Hopefully a good few if the 55 will see that as unacceptable and change their views

[Mon Dieu4]

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So how would that £30BN gap have been funded? Tax increase, public spending cuts?

Legalise weed, would put a billion or so into the coffers

[marinello59]

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I don't care if it's "really poor stuff" in your view. If you want a poll that proves that the Scottish residents prefer an anti-scottish racist dictating over them as opposed to their own countries soverignty. Then just look at the vast majority of polls that still show that Scottish Independence is out of favour.

As I though, nothing to back your comments up. Accusing most of your fellow Scots who disagree with you of being racist really is rather sad.
I really expected nothing more from a good old fashioned blood and soil Nationalist like yourself. Thankfully most of us who support Independence come at it from an alternative and rather more positive viewpoint.

[marinello59]

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That is a long way from what you say though. There is no evidence that the majority of the 55 are racist. They just would rather, foolishly in my opinion, rather stay in the union. Having Johnson as PM is just a sad function of that. Hopefully a good few if the 55 will see that as unacceptable and change their views

Exactly.

[Fife-Hibee]

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As I though, nothing to back your comments up. Accusing most of your fellow Scots who disagree with you of being racist really is rather sad.
I really expected nothing more from a good old fashioned blood and soil Nationalist like yourself. Thankfully most of us who support Independence come at it from an alternative and rather more positive viewpoint.

Are you asking me to seek out the results of polls over the past several months? Because I believe you and anybody else who reads through these posts knows what the results of them are.

You call me a "good old fansioned blood and soil Nationalist". That's exactly what Boris Johnson is and exactly the kind of people who would rather have him dictate over us over the self sovereign alternative.

[Fife-Hibee]

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More progressive measures like what? Ones that raise £30BN?

Better measures that the ones being enforced on us in order to raise the "£30BN".

You seem to have this blinkered idea that the deficit doesn't exist as long as we remain in the UK. It's quite an incredible delusion really.

[James310]

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Better measures that the ones being enforced on us in order to raise the "£30BN".

You seem to have this blinkered idea that the deficit doesn't exist as long as we remain in the UK. It's quite an incredible delusion really.

Better measures like what?

[Fife-Hibee]

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Better measures like what?

Like not cutting taxes on the wealthest and shifting the vast bulk of the burdren on those with little to no money.

and before you say to me "but how will that close the £30BN gap". That's a problem that already exists without independence. So independence doesn't make the issue any more problematic than it already is.

[marinello59]

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Are you asking me to seek out the results of polls over the past several months? Because I believe you and anybody else who reads through these posts knows what the results of them are.

You call me a "good old fansioned blood and soil Nationalist". That's exactly what Boris Johnson is and exactly the kind of people who would rather have him dictate over us over the self sovereign alternative.

You said that the vast majority of people who voted against Independence get their jollies from racism. You really need to back up a slur like that.
I do agree with you that you share a bed with Boris when it comes to objectionable nationalistic views though. See, we can agree.