US claiming Iran has torpedoed 2 oil tankers in the Gulf of Oman.

[Hibrandenburg]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/06/13/oil-tankers-hit-fresh-attack-gulf-oman/amp/

[Fife-Hibee]

US looking for a reason to target Iran.

Who would have predicted...

[makaveli1875]

Go on give us the truth Fife , who really dunnit

[Fife-Hibee]

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Go on give us the truth Fife , who really dunnit

Not who they're claiming did it. I know that much.

[James310]

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Not who they're claiming did it. I know that much.

Who do you think did it?

[Sylar]

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Not who they're claiming did it. I know that much.

Lemme guess - it was a false flag operation, where a stealth American vessel shot the two tankers using Iranian missiles that they covertly acquired?

What Iran have to gain from the act is a valid question - but let's be honest - you don't know ****.

[allmodcons]

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US looking for a reason to target Iran.

Who would have predicted...

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Go on give us the truth Fife , who really dunnit

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Lemme guess - it was a false flag operation, where a stealth American vessel shot the two tankers using Iranian missiles that they covertly acquired?

What Iran have to gain from the act is a valid question - but let's be honest - you don't know ****.

IMO Fife Hibee has a point here. The hawks in the Trump Administration are itching for a reason to target Iran.

The US blaming Iran for these attacks isn't a surprise and WMD is enough to remind anybody that they don't really give a toss if the intelligence is legitimate or not.

[lord bunberry]

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IMO Fife Hibee has a point here. The hawks in the Trump Administration are itching for a reason to target Iran.

The US blaming Iran for these attacks isn't a surprise and WMD is enough to remind anybody that they don't really give a toss if the intelligence is legitimate or not.

I agree. I’m not saying it’s a Hitler in Poland type scenario, but it suits the Americans to blame Iran.

[Mibbes Aye]

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IMO Fife Hibee has a point here. The hawks in the Trump Administration are itching for a reason to target Iran.

The US blaming Iran for these attacks isn't a surprise and WMD is enough to remind anybody that they don't really give a toss if the intelligence is legitimate or not.

I’m surprised but relaxed that I might be agreeing with Fife Hibee here.

The attacks are potentially Iran but Iran is far too sophisticated to be directly involved.

The attacks are potentially Iranian proxies like the Houthi rebels but that seems a bit far-stretched, and again, Iran are too sophisticated to allow that to happen.

Occam’s Razor and all that, with people like John Bolton kicking around then false flags are all too likely.

[Sylar]

There is a SUBSTANTIAL difference between America looking for a reason to target Iran, and manufacturing one that could have cost the lives of hundreds of crewmen aboard the two vessels.

The Houthi rebels claimed a drone strike just a month ago on a Saudi oil pipeline, and have stopped exports via other shipping routes in the past. Given the economic sanctions the US have placed on Iran lately, it's perfectly plausible Iran could be behind the attacks in a retaliatory capacity, as a tactic to highlight just how reliant Western energy markets are on the security of this particular strait (which accounts for c.20% of all shipped oil/natural gas globally). By creating supply insecurities in the region, Iran drive up global oil prices by creating a market chilled by fears of shortage of supply chain instability.

Part of the deal in the US imposing sanctions on Iranian oil exports was that Saudi Arabia and the UAE would continue high rates of production to maintain prices and supply - if the Iranian regime or their allies can impact that, they highlight the need for their own exports and security of the strait to provide safe passage and continuity of supply.

The Houthis attacked a number of tankers last year Bab al-Mandab strait, using a mixture of mine and missile tactics.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-ye...-idUKKCN1HA1SH

They have the motive, and they certainly have the means (including access to drones, which they've recently used in separate attacks against Saudi pipelines and Abha airport).

THAT an Iranian aligned group, retaliating against the economic sanctions imposed upon them and trying to drive oil market insecurity, carried out the attack is far more likely the Occam's Razor.

Fife Hibee may well be correct - but the assertion of knowledge is a nonsense. All any of us can do is speculate with the facts available, and as much as I despise the Trump administration, this narrative from the region is well treaded...

[MagicSwirlingShip]

Stinks of the Gulf of Tonkin incidents that escalated US involvement in Vietnam to me.

[marinello59]

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Not who they're claiming did it. I know that much.

I know nothing
But I wouldn’t believe anything this American administration told us. Worrying times.

[Fife-Hibee]

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There is a SUBSTANTIAL difference between America looking for a reason to target Iran, and manufacturing one that could have cost the lives of hundreds of crewmen aboard the two vessels.

The Houthi rebels claimed a drone strike just a month ago on a Saudi oil pipeline, and have stopped exports via other shipping routes in the past. Given the economic sanctions the US have placed on Iran lately, it's perfectly plausible Iran could be behind the attacks in a retaliatory capacity, as a tactic to highlight just how reliant Western energy markets are on the security of this particular strait (which accounts for c.20% of all shipped oil/natural gas globally). By creating supply insecurities in the region, Iran drive up global oil prices by creating a market chilled by fears of shortage of supply chain instability.

Part of the deal in the US imposing sanctions on Iranian oil exports was that Saudi Arabia and the UAE would continue high rates of production to maintain prices and supply - if the Iranian regime or their allies can impact that, they highlight the need for their own exports and security of the strait to provide safe passage and continuity of supply.

The Houthis attacked a number of tankers last year Bab al-Mandab strait, using a mixture of mine and missile tactics.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-ye...-idUKKCN1HA1SH

They have the motive, and they certainly have the means (including access to drones, which they've recently used in separate attacks against Saudi pipelines and Abha airport).

THAT an Iranian aligned group, retaliating against the economic sanctions imposed upon them and trying to drive oil market insecurity, carried out the attack is far more likely the Occam's Razor.

Fife Hibee may well be correct - but the assertion of knowledge is a nonsense. All any of us can do is speculate with the facts available, and as much as I despise the Trump administration, this narrative from the region is well treaded...

Or perhaps the sanctions were designed to make it look like Iran had a motive.

Implement sanctions, orchestrate a false flag then claim they did it due to the sanctions.

[DaveF]

UK backs US in Iran claims.

I'm shocked :-)

[stokesmessiah]

Whilst no one really knows the truth. You can't escape the fact that the US is spoiling for a fight.

[Smartie]

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Whilst no one really knows the truth. You can't escape the fact that the US is spoiling for a fight.

It seems that way.

Why would they be spoiling for a fight with Iran?

[stokesmessiah]

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It seems that way.

Why would they be spoiling for a fight with Iran?

God knows.

To satisfy Trump's megalomaniac personality and garner him brownie points with Americans?

[Fife-Hibee]

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It seems that way.

Why would they be spoiling for a fight with Iran?

The same reason they did with Libya, Iraq and now Venezuela as well. They have a hit list of nations with high oil reserves who refuse to play ball.

[Jack]

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It seems that way.

Why would they be spoiling for a fight with Iran?

To be fair the American arms lobby are itching for a war with anyone. The USA needs to fire those very expensive weapon systems at someone.

[Bristolhibby]

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God knows.

To satisfy Trump's megalomaniac personality and garner him brownie points with Americans?

Oh and BTW Iran ain’t Iraq. They have a well armed massive, motivated military, mountainous terrain and Geo-Political clout (Russia).

Let’s not go there.

Reading it was mines BTW.

J

[Glory Lurker]

Let's assume it was Iran or Houthi rebels. What would their reason be for doing this?

[stokesmessiah]

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Oh and BTW Iran ain’t Iraq. They have a well armed massive, motivated military, mountainous terrain and Geo-Political clout (Russia).

Let’s not go there.

Reading it was mines BTW.

J

I don't know what this response is about at all !!!??

I never once said Iran was Iraq, nor did I question what weapon was used yesterday. I simply said that the US was spoiling for a fight BTW !

[Sylar]

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Let's assume it was Iran or Houthi rebels. What would their reason be for doing this?

Retaliation against economic sanctions imposed by the US and their allies, destabilisation of Western energy markets (by driving up oil prices, Iran can offer their own exports as a solution, requiring sanctions to be lifted) and a desire to control transit through the Strait of Hormuz into the Gulf...

Again, the Iranian backed Houthis have done this before - they have history of carrying out attacks on shipping lanes in this region, they have previous attacking infrastructure (which they've claimed themselves), they have advanced weaponry in the form of drones, have personnel that are trained by, and are former Iranian naval officers, and they have the motivation. They've also been very active in that region in the past year, with an escalation in the past month.

[JimBHibees]

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I know nothing
But I wouldn’t believe anything this American administration told us. Worrying times.

Kind of where I am. Other US Administrations with possibly more integrity have had no issue with lying to further their goals so no great surprise.

[Slavers]

My Tuppence worth.
Israel wants war with Iran and to Balkanize the Middle East and they want to use the USA to do it. It wouldn't matter if it was Trump, Republicans or Democrats in power the end game would be the same.

[Fife-Hibee]

Top 9 oil harbouring nations on earth:

1 Venezuela 300,878 (We must "liberate" them)
2 Saudi Arabia 266,455 (Plays ball)
3 Canada 169,709 (Bordering nation)
4 Iran 158,400 (We must "liberate" them)
5 Iraq 142,503 (Already "liberated")
6 Kuwait 101,500 (Plays ball)
7 United Arab Emirates 97,800 (Plays ball)
8 Russia 80,000 (We'd "liberate" them if they weren't so big)
9 Libya 48,363 (Already "liberated")

It's just a coincidence though.

[Glory Lurker]

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Retaliation against economic sanctions imposed by the US and their allies, destabilisation of Western energy markets (by driving up oil prices, Iran can offer their own exports as a solution, requiring sanctions to be lifted) and a desire to control transit through the Strait of Hormuz into the Gulf...

Again, the Iranian backed Houthis have done this before - they have history of carrying out attacks on shipping lanes in this region, they have previous attacking infrastructure (which they've claimed themselves), they have advanced weaponry in the form of drones, have personnel that are trained by, and are former Iranian naval officers, and they have the motivation. They've also been very active in that region in the past year, with an escalation in the past month.

Thanks, Sylar. That's helpful. Your earlier post that I didn't read until just now, and which would have answered my question before I asked it, is even more helpful!

[Mibbes Aye]

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It seems that way.

Why would they be spoiling for a fight with Iran?

Iran is a massive strategic player in the region. It holds a huge amount of sway in Iraq, Syria and Lebanon.

It is Shia and therefore fundamentally at odds with the regime in the likes of Saudi, which the US are invested in.

It doesn’t like Israel, or rather Israel doesn’t like Iran, and Israel is the sandbox for US military tech after all.

Oh, and oil.

Also worth noting that the US and the U.K. have form, having orchestrated a coup to overthrow the democratically-elected government in Iran in 1953. The result was a puppet regime for nearly three decades that stoked and fuelled the Islamic revolution in 1979.

The coup is living memory for the older generation, and for most middle-aged adults their parents would have lived through it and told them about it.

[Mibbes Aye]

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There is a SUBSTANTIAL difference between America looking for a reason to target Iran, and manufacturing one that could have cost the lives of hundreds of crewmen aboard the two vessels.

The Houthi rebels claimed a drone strike just a month ago on a Saudi oil pipeline, and have stopped exports via other shipping routes in the past. Given the economic sanctions the US have placed on Iran lately, it's perfectly plausible Iran could be behind the attacks in a retaliatory capacity, as a tactic to highlight just how reliant Western energy markets are on the security of this particular strait (which accounts for c.20% of all shipped oil/natural gas globally). By creating supply insecurities in the region, Iran drive up global oil prices by creating a market chilled by fears of shortage of supply chain instability.

Part of the deal in the US imposing sanctions on Iranian oil exports was that Saudi Arabia and the UAE would continue high rates of production to maintain prices and supply - if the Iranian regime or their allies can impact that, they highlight the need for their own exports and security of the strait to provide safe passage and continuity of supply.

The Houthis attacked a number of tankers last year Bab al-Mandab strait, using a mixture of mine and missile tactics.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-ye...-idUKKCN1HA1SH

They have the motive, and they certainly have the means (including access to drones, which they've recently used in separate attacks against Saudi pipelines and Abha airport).

THAT an Iranian aligned group, retaliating against the economic sanctions imposed upon them and trying to drive oil market insecurity, carried out the attack is far more likely the Occam's Razor.

Fife Hibee may well be correct - but the assertion of knowledge is a nonsense. All any of us can do is speculate with the facts available, and as much as I despise the Trump administration, this narrative from the region is well treaded...

While the rebels are capable I suspect that generally, they don’t do anything without permission from the Iranian hierarchy.

And I think the Iranian hierarchy are far too sophisticated to leave themselves open to recrimination by something so obvious.

You are right about speculation and I will add to it. Likeliest for me is Israeli involvement. They have history of attacks in Iran, let alone the straits, they have history of false flag operations, they have a massive interest in setting Iran up and they have the capability to carry out such operations.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

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It seems that way.

Why would they be spoiling for a fight with Iran?

Don't think they have any military bases there, they don't use the dollar for reporting (sure Libya did the same before things soured) and of course, oil.