The EU Referendum (How did you vote?)

[ronaldo7]

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Is this the same pound that the SNP want to use for an undetermined number of years? If its such a wibble wobble why is that their policy? Why not go straight to a brand new currency on day 1?

Don't be a dipstick.

You know why.

You've had the answer many times on here, and here you are again asking the same questions, over and over. It's like you're trolling.

[Ozyhibby]

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Absolutely no need for that comment.

Insulting someone for being educated demeans you, Ozy.

I just prefer people to discuss issues directly without heading of at a tangent and weaponising their larger vocabulary to the point where I lose the will to live. I’m new to this board but can already see a pattern in the way most threads go. It’s not really the discussion I thought it would be.


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[marinello59]

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And how would that work out for the EU?

We'd go from second largest within our group of islands to 27th or whatever?

Are you for real?

I actually care about Scotland ya.

Mon Labour!!!

There’s no need for the ‘are you for real’ type comments and asking if other posters are idiots etc is there? If you can’t debate without resorting to those sort of digs then maybe you just shouldn’t bother.

[James310]

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Don't be a dipstick.

You know why.

You've had the answer many times on here, and here you are again asking the same questions, over and over. It's like you're trolling.

You do know that going straight to a new currency on day 1 was an option proposed by some, it was rejected though. But it could be done. I was just interested in your viewpoint as to why it was not a viable option seeing as you are making a point about the poor performance of the pound, so naturally if you don't like the pound then there was an alternative that perhaps you may have supported as it would get us away from the wibble wobble pound on day 1 of Indy.

But as we now know it's the SNP policy to use the pound for an undetermined number of years. So let's hope it bounces back over the next few years and it does become strong and stable again because we could be using it for many years in an Independent Scotland.

[Northernhibee]

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Sweeping generalisations and assumptions leaves no room for discussion and are made by you to confirm your own bias.

The topic was debated to death prior to the referendum and to say that everyone who voted to leave is only down to ignorance is just deluded arrogance on your part.

Anyway I have gave my reason why I voted for the Brexit Party so to try ensure the democratic result is honoured.

If anything just so that future referendum results are honoured the same way, even if I don't like the result such a vote for Scottish Independence, that's how democracy should work.

Oh how strange it will be if and when Scotland votes for independence and the very same forces spring into action and conspire to reverse the result without it ever being implemented.

I do wonder how you would react to that?

I didn't have much time to respond to this last night so let me continue on why you're wrong, either knowingly or not.

Nobody knew what they were voting for in the 2016 referendum. It's demonstrable.

The Leave campaign did not come up with a detailed plan. There are many ways to leave the EU, the fact we had the indicative votes proves that. Cameron's leaflet did say that a leave vote would see us leave the CU and other bodies but almost (if not every) leading campaigner for Leave said that was project fear and that we'd get the "easiest deal in human history", that there would be "no downsides, only upsides". Farage waxed lyrical about Norway Plus.

On that subject, the Brexit Party did not publish a manifesto. Therefore you can't know what their plans are. If you want to leave and negotiate WTO terms (bizarre seeing as how that would leave us with more difficult trading conditions than Mauritania) and he goes and seeks a Norway Plus deal then you've given him the mandate to do so as you've voted for a party who refuse to publish a plan to which they can be held accountable for. Again, if you could point me in the direction of where Farage has said that no deal would leave us in a worse trading position than Mauritania then please feel free, otherwise again people hear the soundbite and don't know what they're actually factually voting for.

Nobody at the time of the referendum was saying that leaving with no deal is a preferred option and they were looking to get an amazing deal. Again, if you knew that leaving without a deal was most likely if you could point out to me where you've warned others who thought they were voting for a deal like they were told then that would help prove me wrong.

People didn't know what they were voting for as no detailed plan was published and just because the charlatans in the ERG, UKIP and the Brexit Party now say how WTO is pure dead brilliant and nothing about Mauritania it doesn't change the fact.

[RyeSloan]

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I’m with you on asking questions around currency, and I’ve still to be fully convinced on the currency debate. However I can’t help but feel it’s hypocritical of you to constantly talk about how much money you will need to convert (which is an assumption as to not using the £ or pegging to it) yet dismiss the economic impact of Brexit and the decline of the £ as “we have always had the issue of the pound going up and down” as if we’re not in uncharted territory and it’s just another normal year.

If you were equally as concerned about the economy and the strength of the pound as you are a Scottish currency I’d be there with you and want to know the answers. However you seem very laissez faire to the current economic climate and the effect of Brexit on the £, but have your forensic magnifying glass on independence.

The effect on the pound was clear...a rise in inflation due to increased import costs.

The prospect of a significant devaluation of a Scottish currency v £ is the same scenario but magnified.

It’s a serious and proper concern considering the amount of cross border trade with rUK and then the rest of the world. Add in the possibility of many personal and business liabilities remaining in £ then it’s completely disingenuous to suggest that sterling value to the euro is a proxy for the scenarios that may arise with a Scottish currency v £.

And that’s before you consider how Scottish companies will access capital markets and the like.

These are serious concerns that could have massive consequences but seem to be brushed aside as either irrelevant (doesn’t matter what currency we use, we’ll ‘simply’ peg for as long as we want) or dismissed by incorrect comparisons to the £ v Euro performance.

These concerns should be properly addressed but yet again are being shouted down...in a way that’s even more concerning than the concerns themselves!!

[ronaldo7]

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You do know that going straight to a new currency on day 1 was an option proposed by some, it was rejected though. But it could be done. I was just interested in your viewpoint as to why it was not a viable option seeing as you are making a point about the poor performance of the pound, so naturally if you don't like the pound then there was an alternative that perhaps you may have supported as it would get us away from the wibble wobble pound on day 1 of Indy.

But as we now know it's the SNP policy to use the pound for an undetermined number of years. So let's hope it bounces back over the next few years and it does become strong and stable again because we could be using it for many years in an Independent Scotland.

My point on the pound is more to do with the absolute disaster your party has made of governing for all, instead of the "I'm alright Jack's/johns/James'

More working people using food banks, more people in poverty, immigrants fighting deportation, and European citizens disenfranchised, but no problem to you though, you've got your mortgage to pay.

[James310]

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These concerns should be properly addressed but yet again are being shouted down...in a way that’s even more concerning than the concerns themselves!!

That's the concerning thing for me, but even more worrying is when SNP politcians fail to grasp even some of the basics about the policy thay they one day may be required to implement. Gives me no confidence at all that they know what they are talking about.

[James310]

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My point on the pound is more to do with the absolute disaster your party has made of governing for all, instead of the "I'm alright Jack's/johns/James'

More working people using food banks, more people in poverty, immigrants fighting deportation, and European citizens disenfranchised, but no problem to you though, you've got your mortgage to pay.

And you accused me of deflection. Currency debate to food banks and immigration....Fair enough, maybe answer another day.

[James310]

https://www.these-islands.co.uk/publ..._headache.aspx

The above is a response to the SNP Growth Commission report. It is very detailed and explains things such as the impact on the Balance of Payments, which I am guessing most on here will have limited detailed knowledge of, me included.

It's a measured and factual response. If anyone reading it can point out any factually incorrect information please share. It's a long read but it might be good for some to see the opposite side of the argument.

It covers the 6 tests in a detail I have not seen anywhere else.

[Moulin Yarns]

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It's not something that keeps me awake at night no. The £ has depreciated against the € significantly since 2016 but it's had very little impact on my day to day life as I am not needing lots of € to run my household. My mortgage payments have remained the same the whole time.

If however every month I am wondering how much money I need to exchange to pay my mortgage and will it be 30% of my income or maybe 40% this month, then yes that's a worry for me, and it should be for most people as well.

We have always had the issue of the £ going up and down against other currencies but unless you run an import and export business or are required to regularly exchange money then it's probably of little interest to you. It will become of interest to a lot more people if we move to a separate currency, hence why people will ask questions that they don't ask today.

How many times do you have to be corrected. You would not have to walk into the bank to exchange your currency to pay your mortgage. Get it into your head that it will happen automatically by the bank.

[stantonhibby]

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I didn't have much time to respond to this last night so let me continue on why you're wrong, either knowingly or not.

Nobody knew what they were voting for in the 2016 referendum. It's demonstrable.

The Leave campaign did not come up with a detailed plan. There are many ways to leave the EU, the fact we had the indicative votes proves that. Cameron's leaflet did say that a leave vote would see us leave the CU and other bodies but almost (if not every) leading campaigner for Leave said that was project fear and that we'd get the "easiest deal in human history", that there would be "no downsides, only upsides". Farage waxed lyrical about Norway Plus.

On that subject, the Brexit Party did not publish a manifesto. Therefore you can't know what their plans are. If you want to leave and negotiate WTO terms (bizarre seeing as how that would leave us with more difficult trading conditions than Mauritania) and he goes and seeks a Norway Plus deal then you've given him the mandate to do so as you've voted for a party who refuse to publish a plan to which they can be held accountable for. Again, if you could point me in the direction of where Farage has said that no deal would leave us in a worse trading position than Mauritania then please feel free, otherwise again people hear the soundbite and don't know what they're actually factually voting for.

Nobody at the time of the referendum was saying that leaving with no deal is a preferred option and they were looking to get an amazing deal. Again, if you knew that leaving without a deal was most likely if you could point out to me where you've warned others who thought they were voting for a deal like they were told then that would help prove me wrong.

People didn't know what they were voting for as no detailed plan was published and just because the charlatans in the ERG, UKIP and the Brexit Party now say how WTO is pure dead brilliant and nothing about Mauritania it doesn't change the fact.

To add to this I don't recall a single mention of the Irish border during the campaign and that then became the main barrier to a deal.

[James310]

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How many times do you have to be corrected. You would not have to walk into the bank to exchange your currency to pay your mortgage. Get it into your head that it will happen automatically by the bank.

Really? I mean really? Your confusing the physical act of exchanging a currency in a building like a bank or bureau de change with the actual process that happens. An exchange of currencies need to take place no matter what. If you exchange currency then there is an exchange rate that is applied that moves up and down every day. There is therefore an exchange rate risk.

OK we can do it again though, so explain to me what happens when I get paid in Scottish Currency and I need to pay my mortgage in £ sterling. What's the process? I have 1,000 Scottish New Pounds in my bank account which my employer paid me but I need to pay my mortgage in £ sterling, what do I do?

Someone help him out on this please.

[Northernhibee]

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To add to this I don't recall a single mention of the Irish border during the campaign and that then became the main barrier to a deal.

Truthfully if you say you voted Brexit and knew what you were voting for you're either a) a liar or b) a terrible person for not telling all and sundry what it actually meant and how hugely damaging it would be for us.

If you can say "Yep, I didn't vote for this" then fair enough, let's figure out how to move things forward in a positive manner.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Really? I mean really? Your confusing the physical act of exchanging a currency in a building like a bank or bureau de change with the actual process that happens. An exchange of currencies need to take place no matter what. If you exchange currency then there is an exchange rate that is applied that moves up and down every day. There is therefore an exchange rate risk.

OK we can do it again though, so explain to me what happens when I get paid in Scottish Currency and I need to pay my mortgage in £ sterling. What's the process? I have 1,000 Scottish New Pounds in my bank account which my employer paid me but I need to pay my mortgage in £ sterling, what do I do?

Someone help him out on this please.

You do nothing the bank on the other hand does.

[James310]

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You do nothing the bank on the other hand does.

OK, step by step it is. So does an exchange of currencies take place?

[Moulin Yarns]

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OK, step by step it is. So does an exchange of currencies take place?

Here's a thought, have you ever bought something on the Internet that came from another country? If so then the process is going to be the same.

[James310]

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Here's a thought, have you ever bought something on the Internet that came from another country? If so then the process is going to be the same.

Yes and on my bank statement is a currency exchange. I bought something for €100 euros and it gets converted and say £85 is taken from my bank account. I get the banks exchange rate that day, will be different the next again day.

But let's stick to the mortgage payment. So does a currency exchange take place?

You can duck out now if you want, I won't mention it again.

[ronaldo7]

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And you accused me of deflection. Currency debate to food banks and immigration....Fair enough, maybe answer another day.

You're discussing currency on an EU referendum thread.😂 No reason why I can't discuss immigration, as it does cross across borders.

[The Harp Awakes]

An interesting snapshot on how folk voted on Thursday. Presently ~81% going for independence supporting parties (64% SNP & 17% Greens).

All the usual caveats, small poll number, not an indy election, etc etc but it does seem to be the case, judging by this and previous polls, that Hibs.net contributors as a group, are significantly more pro-independence than the national average.

Why would that be I wonder?

[ronaldo7]

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https://www.these-islands.co.uk/publ..._headache.aspx

The above is a response to the SNP Growth Commission report. It is very detailed and explains things such as the impact on the Balance of Payments, which I am guessing most on here will have limited detailed knowledge of, me included.

It's a measured and factual response. If anyone reading it can point out any factually incorrect information please share. It's a long read but it might be good for some to see the opposite side of the argument.

It covers the 6 tests in a detail I have not seen anywhere else.

These islands, run by ex dog food salesmen. You've posted that web site a few times now, better with wings. 😂

[James310]

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You're discussing currency on an EU referendum thread.😂 No reason why I can't discuss immigration, as it does cross across borders.

It had nothing to do with my post though. But I guess food banks and immigration are the stock answers when the questions get hard.

[James310]

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These islands, run by ex dog food salesmen. You've posted that web site a few times now, better with wings. 😂

A ex dog food salesman (who never wrote the article) is a lot less offensive that someone like Reverend Stuart Campbell. What did he say about Hillsborough again?

[Bangkok Hibby]

Christ almighty here's what happens.................

I get paid in GBP. I need to change it to Thai baht because I live in Thailand. There are a few processes but I send GBP from my UK bank account where my wages are to Transferwise. They in turn send Thai baht to my bank in Bangkok. If say I send £1,000 every month I get a different amount paid to Thailand depending on the strength or weakness of the pound that day. Currently I'll get 40,050 baht, a few months ago it was 42,000 baht, a few years ago it was 55,000 baht

My money HAS to change from GBP to Baht. I don't physically do anything it's all done before it gets to Thailand

[stantonhibby]

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Truthfully if you say you voted Brexit and knew what you were voting for you're either a) a liar or b) a terrible person for not telling all and sundry what it actually meant and how hugely damaging it would be for us.

If you can say "Yep, I didn't vote for this" then fair enough, let's figure out how to move things forward in a positive manner.

I voted remain but I take your point

[James310]

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Christ almighty here's what happens.................

I get paid in GBP. I need to change it to Thai baht because I live in Thailand. There are a few processes but I send GBP from my UK bank account where my wages are to Transferwise. They in turn send Thai baht to my bank in Bangkok. If say I send £1,000 every month I get a different amount paid to Thailand depending on the strength or weakness of the pound that day. Currently I'll get 40,050 baht, a few months ago it was 42,000 baht, a few years ago it was 55,000 baht

My money HAS to change from GBP to Baht. I don't physically do anything it's all done before it gets to Thailand

Yes exactly, so every month the amount you gets differs depending on the exchange rate. The point I am making.

Just like every month the amount you need to convert to pay your mortgage will differ and a depreciating Scottish Currency will mean it costs you more than before.

I am not making a point about you have to go into a physical bank every month, I know that. Its 2019 people bank online. The point is there is an exchange rate risk that does not exist today, your example illustrates this. You don't know what your getting from one month to the next.

One month I might need to convert 600 new Scottish pounds to pay my £500 sterling mortgage, the next month due to exchange rates I might need to convert 700 new Scottish pounds to pay my still £500 mortgage. But I have had to find an extra 100 new Scottish pounds to pay exactly the same amount.

Clear Moulin?

[Northernhibee]

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I voted remain but I take your point

It wasn't really directed at you, more of a continuation of your valid point.

Remain had to deal with the reality of saying the uncomfortable truth of "It can't work and it won't work because of these facts". The Leave campaign was allowed to overspend with murky funding, call it all "project fear" and sell comforting fantasies and lies.

Three years later, we've not learned a single thing about how dangerous that is.

[stantonhibby]

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It wasn't really directed at you, more of a continuation of your valid point.

Remain had to deal with the reality of saying the uncomfortable truth of "It can't work and it won't work because of these facts". The Leave campaign was allowed to overspend with murky funding, call it all "project fear" and sell comforting fantasies and lies.

Three years later, we've not learned a single thing about how dangerous that is.

Fair do's.....it's a shambles whatever way you look at it.

[The Modfather]

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Yes exactly, so every month the amount you gets differs depending on the exchange rate. The point I am making.

Just like every month the amount you need to convert to pay your mortgage will differ and a depreciating Scottish Currency will mean it costs you more than before.

I am not making a point about you have to go into a physical bank every month, I know that. Its 2019 people bank online. The point is there is an exchange rate risk that does not exist today, your example illustrates this. You don't know what your getting from one month to the next.

Clear Moulin?

What’s the point you are making? If an Independent Scotland didn’t keep the pound then then the exchange rate comes in to play, you might get a little more for your money or a little less. Does that about sum up the Groundhog Day like debates on here?

We would be doing the same as every other country in modern history who have gone independent. Are there any examples from these independent countries you can give that show the negative impact having a variable exchange rate had on their mortgages?

That’s not to say that currency isn’t important and certainly something I personally need more clarity on in a second referendum. However is what you are talking about really all that different to variable mortgages?

[James310]

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What’s the point you are making? If an Independent Scotland didn’t keep the pound then then the exchange rate comes in to play, you might get a little more for your money or a little less. Does that about sum up the Groundhog Day like debates on here?

We would be doing the same as every other country in modern history who have gone independent. Are there any examples from these independent countries you can give that show the negative impact having a variable exchange rate had on their mortgages?

That’s not to say that currency isn’t important and certainly something I personally need more clarity on in a second referendum. However is what you are talking about really all that different to variable mortgages?

I added this.

One month I might need to convert 600 new Scottish pounds to pay my £500 sterling mortgage, the next month due to exchange rates I might need to convert 700 new Scottish pounds to pay my still £500 mortgage. But I have had to find an extra 100 new Scottish pounds to pay exactly the same amount.

That's the risk.

If you or others can't see it then that's fine.