Fan Rep Interview - Rangers Statement & Loyalty Points

[FitbaFolkKen]

It’s been said that the fans rep can’t represent everyone’s opinion but they could certainly provide an informed opinion of the reaction of the fan base to certain actions.

For example(I know this has happened) if we take away “Behind the Goals” how do you think that would be received? Then that could be something the reps focus on for a couple of months garnering feedback for the board and presenting it. The support is never going to agree 100% however the reps should be able to provide enough information to let the board make an informed decision. Then if the decision is taken at least the board can acknowledge the concerns of those that didn’t agree and explain why they chose that course of action.

I don’t so much see it as being a thorn in the side of the board but bringing to the attention the overall views of the fan base and communicating more effectively with us. Highlighting things such as safety issues that were raised at Tynecastle. While something like that might not need a statement it could be addressed at forums or monthly Q&A’s. A monthly blog from one of them “the fans view from the boardroom” would be something online and accessible to everyone. We have Hibs Tv that could run a behind the scenes monthly 10/15 minute where fans questions are answered. We have lots of tools that could be used to engage the fans without requiring in person attendance. Last consistent stream of information would stop something like the podcast being a deluge of questions although it is exactly the type of engagement I would be looking for.

I still think it is a positive move but as mentioned already it needs defined to be more effective.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Geo_1875]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

There is no fan viewpoint as a quick glance at any of the threads on here show.There are far too many individuals who confuse their viewpoint on a subject as”the fans viewpoint”.The idea should be scrapped .Any fan who feels strongly about something can raise it with the club.

As in every walk of life those with the strongest opinions and the loudest voices will make themselves heard above the silent majority. There is a "fans viewpoint" out there, it's just very difficult to put it front and centre.

[silverhibee]

Got as far as 35 minutes and couldn't listen to it anymore, if the threats are so bad then why the f*** has Leeann Dempster not disbanded this fans reps due to death threats being received and relieved them of the role and said it wasn't a success just like she did with the loyalty points scheme.

But I doubt Leeann will get rid of the role of fans reps as they take the heat for the board from the fans.

[0762]

Listened to the show. Sorry but not very impressed. Used to deal with people at the Club who were happy to talk and help without having to go through a fans reps.To be honest feel I got better answers than, than the party line being rolled out now.Don't really see the worth in the 2 fans reps as it can never be representative of the support.Not knocking Frank or Tracey as individual just really don't see the worth.

[Johnny Clash]

. Re The Rangers issue - both reps say they listened to what was said and then agreed with the consensus in the Boardroom that nothing could be done! However, prior to the meeting the reps were adamant that The Rangers had to be taken to task - as our reps understood this to be the overwhelming position of the fans (as their posts on .Net clearly stated) . I don’t think there’s been an explanation to say exactly what was said to result in this sea change. I feel, just because Rod (or whoever) says ‘trouble is, there’s nowhere we can go with this’ is too simplistic.

There’s also been a few things said about how difficult it is to gauge a consensus amongst fans but there are ways to do this. The problem was Hibs never attempted to take an official vote or hold an official poll . However, I think it’s clear from the comments posted on all forums that Hibs fans wanted The Rangers taken to task. Frank himself stated he wanted the rangers punished but then weirdly said he didn’t know why he wanted them punished ? The simple answer is: they cheated!

Fair points were made about lack of attendance at surgeries.

Anyway, Hope lessons will be learnt. In future our club should seek the majority feelings from fans by holding an official referendum. As we do with reps elections. Sure, the minority of entire support will exercise their right to vote but at least it gives a flavour of what supporters think.

[wookie70]

Mixed bag for me. The loyalty point position is poor imo and the answer that we would only consider bringing it back if more fans attended more away games didn't make sense to me. The Rangers discussion again didn't convince.

The away ground discussion was good and some work has been done on making our hosts aware of issues but no need to have fans reps on the board for that.

I think both Frank and Tracey seem to do some good work helping individuals but that should be the limit of their role. They seemed pretty dismissive of .net imo and I think in this day and age that is foolish. I'm not convinced either of them have a clue what the fans majority view is when attending the board and all they are doing is saying what the various positions are. I would expect any board member to know than anyway. Nothing against either of them but I would change the role to fan liaison or fan contact point.

[seanshow]

Apparently there was a working together meeting, In which Frank,Rod & Leeann attended to answer questions on a number of subjects including 'The Rangers' and apart from the regulars, One new person showed up out of 13500 season ticket holders.

....too many keyboard warriors.

[Forza Fred]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

This, 100percent. There are probably 30-50,000 people out there who can fairly call themselves Hibs fans, and at least the same again who have an interest in the Club's doings. The idea that their can be any one unified "fan's viewpoint" on any topic is almost laughable.

I've got no problem with either of the reps, but I think they've got a totally thankless task.

FWIW I think there probably should be a 'fans rep' of some sort on the board, but that persons job should be solely to act as a point of contact between the ordinary fan and the club's management - frequently on here there'll be a thread with someone asking for LD's contact details so they can raise some point or other, I always think that direct 1 to 1 interaction with the fans isn't really what LD should be doing with her time, that for me is what a fan's rep should be for. Just a point of contact, not someone who is meant ot campaign on fans behalf or be some sort of allknowing guru on the wider fanbase's opinions on everything.

There is a lot of sense in this post.

Firstly, I think the two individuals currently in the post have been horribly maligned by some, and having listened to the podcast I cannot understand some of the personal criticism.

If there is any criticism due, it is partly caused by the differing expectations of some when they look at the roles.

In effect, and it could be argued it occurred to unexpected consequences, the two elected ‘fans reps’are really ‘fans elected board members’

They cannot represent the ‘wishes of the fans’ as they would end up representing 34 different views on any subject, as it is almost impossible to get every punter to speak with one voice.

Ask someone for their view on Lewis Stevenson for example, and many different views will be forthcoming, with everybody thinking THEIR view is the appropriate one.

There is no doubt that the two people, irrespective of the title they have, have done good for the club...in areas where resource shortages may have meant that actions they have taken would NOT have been taken previously.

I know from personal experience Tracey facilitated much appreciate team videos for our 30th anniversary celebrations, and even his most sternest critic would have trouble in not doffing his cap to Frank for looking after people in the ticket queues, his work with the handicapped supporters, or his efforts in taking the Scottish Cup to some individuals.

For all their best efforts, they STILL get personally derided by some.

I think, as outlined above, there HAVE been benefits.......but perhaps instead of ‘Fans Rep Board Members’.......the role is more of a ‘fans liaison officer’.

Or still have them as board members, but rename them as ‘fan elected board members’ as they certainly can’t be expected to argue every case presented by every fan, as some obviously would be the opposite of others...

[wearehibernian]

I think that it is great work to put this podcast together. Credit where it is due!
Perhaps some of the comments and opinions on both the interviews and on .net highlight a disconnect between the fans and the reps too. Does not seem to be a truly effective 'bottom up' approach to truly putting the views of the fans forward in a clear and representative manner. Sporadic appeals for opinion on social media and by means of surgeries seems a little disjointed. I do not blame the reps for this bye the way. And I think they have a valid point when they say that the online community is not the whole picture. They are obviously working hard.
Maybe there is work to be done in order to make the reps more aware and representative of the fans view without them having to go out and seek opinion.
Just an observation and perhaps an oversight on the whole process. Onwards and upwards because the whole idea is surely a good start. Perhaps the early beginnings of real fan representation...?

[Forza Fred]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I think that it is great work to put this podcast together. Credit where it is due!
Perhaps some of the comments and opinions on both the interviews and on .net highlight a disconnect between the fans and the reps too. Does not seem to be a truly effective 'bottom up' approach to truly putting the views of the fans forward in a clear and representative manner. Sporadic appeals for opinion on social media and by means of surgeries seems a little disjointed. I do not blame the reps for this bye the way. And I think they have a valid point when they say that the online community is not the whole picture. They are obviously working hard.
Maybe there is work to be done in order to make the reps more aware and representative of the fans view without them having to go out and seek opinion.
Just an observation and perhaps an oversight on the whole process. Onwards and upwards because the whole idea is surely a good start. Perhaps the early beginnings of real fan representation...?

Still having trouble with the concept of ‘the fans view”

IMHO there are on any topic, many differing views held by the fans

[MWHIBBIES]

I'd hate to see this thread if we were struggling.

[Phil MaGlass]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I think that it is great work to put this podcast together. Credit where it is due!
Perhaps some of the comments and opinions on both the interviews and on .net highlight a disconnect between the fans and the reps too. Does not seem to be a truly effective 'bottom up' approach to truly putting the views of the fans forward in a clear and representative manner. Sporadic appeals for opinion on social media and by means of surgeries seems a little disjointed. I do not blame the reps for this bye the way. And I think they have a valid point when they say that the online community is not the whole picture. They are obviously working hard.
Maybe there is work to be done in order to make the reps more aware and representative of the fans view without them having to go out and seek opinion.
Just an observation and perhaps an oversight on the whole process. Onwards and upwards because the whole idea is surely a good start. Perhaps the early beginnings of real fan representation...?

Just this wee bit. it may not be the whole community, but, where else are you going to get roughly 1000 folk in one place, i think the Hibsnet are a a good section of the Hibs support and we certainly do not all toe one line. When he says its not the whole picture I think thats an easy cop out, I have absolutely no problem with fans reps as long as they are been seeing not always to toe the club line and stand up for what they think is right, and in one specific situation being the Huns situation they did´nt. As someone has said, maybe their job titles need to be changed or they need to be changed for folk that are more vocal?

[Beefster]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Apparently there was a working together meeting, In which Frank,Rod & Leeann attended to answer questions on a number of subjects including 'The Rangers' and apart from the regulars, One new person showed up out of 13500 season ticket holders.

....too many keyboard warriors.

If only there was a method of worldwide mass communication rather than busy folk having to travel to turn up to meetings that few folk know about...

[ozwoody]

I think its clear that a fans rep on the board just isnt workable.Due to confidentiality and toeing the party line, its clear that the role is very minimal in what they can feedback to fans.I still believe there should be a conduit between the board and fans though.Perhaps having a fans rep thats not a board member is the better option.They can still liase with the fans and have meetings with board members, but be able to report on those discussions without the hinderence of corporate governance.This would show the club is actively engaging the fans and carrying on the good work that has already taken place

[HibsTalk]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Take the first line away I think you'll have the consensus.

I really like the last line

[Pretty Boy]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I think its clear that a fans rep on the board just isnt workable.Due to confidentiality and toeing the party line, its clear that the role is very minimal in what they can feedback to fans.I still believe there should be a conduit between the board and fans though.Perhaps having a fans rep thats not a board member is the better option.They can still liase with the fans and have meetings with board members, but be able to report on those discussions without the hinderence of corporate governance.This would show the club is actively engaging the fans and carrying on the good work that has already taken place

I agree.

I argued from the very beginning that having fans reps as board members was going to lead to a lot of misunderstanding about what could be achieved and communicated.

For me he best way forward would be to develop the SLO role, as a non board position, which is mandatory anyway.

[3pm]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I agree.

I argued from the very beginning that having fans reps as board members was going to lead to a lot of misunderstanding about what could be achieved and communicated.

For me he best way forward would be to develop the SLO role, as a non board position, which is mandatory anyway.

Probably not the best person to coment on this but if HSL want some kind of fan involvement, they could be doing a bit more to represent the supporters.

[Mikey]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Their role is to represent fans, not to do what’s best for the club, either financially or politically.

Eh?

[ronaldo7]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I agree.

I argued from the very beginning that having fans reps as board members was going to lead to a lot of misunderstanding about what could be achieved and communicated.

For me he best way forward would be to develop the SLO role, as a non board position, which is mandatory anyway.

We had an SLO, but his role was changed by the club, I think he's got some communications title now. Maybe he could communicate if he's doing both roles.

[neil7908]

I think it's strange to say in this day and age, that it's somehow impossible to gauge the views of the fans on key issues.

The Internet and fans forums like this have made this task easier than ever. If the desire and time was there then plenty of ways to hear from a good number of people, albeit not everyone.

[neil7908]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

If only there was a method of worldwide mass communication rather than busy folk having to travel to turn up to meetings that few folk know about...

Exactly! Plenty of ways to easily connect with big chunks of supporters. You won't get everyone but we accept general election results with turnout at 60% or so.

[stoneyburn hibs]

I respect that they're both using up their own personal time, but the idea that they might have any clout with the board is delusional. Their roles serve no purpose and should be scrapped imo.

[SideBurns]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

There is a lot of sense in this post.

Firstly, I think the two individuals currently in the post have been horribly maligned by some, and having listened to the podcast I cannot understand some of the personal criticism.

If there is any criticism due, it is partly caused by the differing expectations of some when they look at the roles.

In effect, and it could be argued it occurred to unexpected consequences, the two elected ‘fans reps’are really ‘fans elected board members’

They cannot represent the ‘wishes of the fans’ as they would end up representing 34 different views on any subject, as it is almost impossible to get every punter to speak with one voice.

Ask someone for their view on Lewis Stevenson for example, and many different views will be forthcoming, with everybody thinking THEIR view is the appropriate one.

There is no doubt that the two people, irrespective of the title they have, have done good for the club...in areas where resource shortages may have meant that actions they have taken would NOT have been taken previously.

I know from personal experience Tracey facilitated much appreciate team videos for our 30th anniversary celebrations, and even his most sternest critic would have trouble in not doffing his cap to Frank for looking after people in the ticket queues, his work with the handicapped supporters, or his efforts in taking the Scottish Cup to some individuals.

For all their best efforts, they STILL get personally derided by some.

I think, as outlined above, there HAVE been benefits.......but perhaps instead of ‘Fans Rep Board Members’.......the role is more of a ‘fans liaison officer’.

Or still have them as board members, but rename them as ‘fan elected board members’ as they certainly can’t be expected to argue every case presented by every fan, as some obviously would be the opposite of others...

Aye, without having a fans' poll on every single subject I'm not sure how the reps can bring a majority view to the Board. Personally, I don't think there will ever be a list of achievements that can be attributed to the reps' input. To me the whole idea was largely symbolic of the reconnect between the support and the club after a time when it was widely accepted that the relationship had broken down.

My only experience of contact with the reps in their roles was when Frank attended my dad's funeral, 4 days before the 2016 cup final, representing Hibs in his club blazer & tie. It was unexpected but very much appreciated, and I'm assuming wouldn't have happened under previous regimes. Perhaps it's the wee things that fly under the radar (and therefore aren't appreciated generally) that provide their worth.

As I say, I don't have huge expectations but hopefully it provides evidence that there is no longer this chasm between the support and the Board. I appreciate not everyone is satisfied with that idea, but if you can be then you can concentrate your attention on what happens on the park on a Saturday.

[Pretty Boy]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

We had an SLO, but his role was changed by the club, I think he's got some communications title now. Maybe he could communicate if he's doing both roles.

Yep I know there was/is an SLO but I'm not sure it's been used as effectively as it could be. If you look at the job description for the role it seems to tick a lot of boxes of what people want from the fans reps.

[ronaldo7]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yep I know there was/is an SLO but I'm not sure it's been used as effectively as it could be. If you look at the job description for the role it seems to tick a lot of boxes of what people want from the fans reps.

It does all the things a "fans rep" should do. It also keeps them at arms length from the board, if it's being carried out as per the job description.

[lord bunberry]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Eh?

We already have a board that’s dong a good job at running the club. We didn’t need to add another 2 people to the board.

[hibsbollah]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

. Re The Rangers issue - both reps say they listened to what was said and then agreed with the consensus in the Boardroom that nothing could be done! However, prior to the meeting the reps were adamant that The Rangers had to be taken to task - as our reps understood this to be the overwhelming position of the fans (as their posts on .Net clearly stated) . I don’t think there’s been an explanation to say exactly what was said to result in this sea change. I feel, just because Rod (or whoever) says ‘trouble is, there’s nowhere we can go with this’ is too simplistic.

There’s also been a few things said about how difficult it is to gauge a consensus amongst fans but there are ways to do this. The problem was Hibs never attempted to take an official vote or hold an official poll . However, I think it’s clear from the comments posted on all forums that Hibs fans wanted The Rangers taken to task. Frank himself stated he wanted the rangers punished but then weirdly said he didn’t know why he wanted them punished ? The simple answer is: they cheated!

Fair points were made about lack of attendance at surgeries.

Anyway, Hope lessons will be learnt. In future our club should seek the majority feelings from fans by holding an official referendum. As we do with reps elections. Sure, the minority of entire support will exercise their right to vote but at least it gives a flavour of what supporters think.

Frank and Tracy both come across particularly badly on the Rangers issue. Tracy seems to doubt that there is a genuine majority for challenging the Rangers. Frank justifies the decision on the basis that Celtic is the only club that have an issue with The Rangers. Frank doesn't know why he wanted Rangers punished, took on board what was said to him by the Board and changed his mind??! Well, i think most of us can help him with why they should have been punished! They constantly bang on about the poor turnout from fans at meetings, which just isn't relevant to the question of why they took the decision they did....And so it continues, on and on, for far too long, every single point they raise can be easily and logically knocked right back at them.

They've listened to the Board position and passed it back to the fans. Which has been already said, isn't really what I understood their job to be. While the 'thick' comments earlier in the thread were obviously out of order, it is fair to say that both Tracy and Frank are going to struggle to win arguments with skilled debaters and negotiators. They should have concentrated on having a 'fans line' and sticking to it.

[hibbysam]

What really really annoys me is when it comes to ‘The Rangers’ saga that the board seem so far out of touch that they have no idea what people want. They keep banging on (literally in Frank’s case last night) about not being in any legal position for any action to take place, I guess they mean stripping titles, fines etc etc, but that’s not what people are asking for. Frank said he wondered if it was because it was rangers and the rivalry etc, it doesn’t matter which club it involved, the investigation was to be into the SFA, not rangers. It was regarding the process which allowed crooks to get hold of that club, that allowed finances to spiral out of control, that allowed a new club special deals and licenses so they could play football, ignoring their own rules. That’s what fans want investigated, and for whatever reason (I reckon I have an idea) our club seem to totally ignore that.

I get that there would be legal issues in regards to stripping titles, hence why that will never happen, but those in charge of our governing body at the time are still there and that’s not on.

When frank said ‘should we investigate Livingston and hearts too, where does it stop’ it was clear he had no idea what it is that’s being pushed.

Last night we heard 90 minutes of stuff we already knew, apart from 5 minutes on away grounds feedback.

[hibsbollah]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

What really really annoys me is when it comes to ‘The Rangers’ saga that the board seem so far out of touch that they have no idea what people want. They keep banging on (literally in Frank’s case last night) about not being in any legal position for any action to take place, I guess they mean stripping titles, fines etc etc, but that’s not what people are asking for. Frank said he wondered if it was because it was rangers and the rivalry etc, it doesn’t matter which club it involved, the investigation was to be into the SFA, not rangers. It was regarding the process which allowed crooks to get hold of that club, that allowed finances to spiral out of control, that allowed a new club special deals and licenses so they could play football, ignoring their own rules. That’s what fans want investigated, and for whatever reason (I reckon I have an idea) our club seem to totally ignore that.

I get that there would be legal issues in regards to stripping titles, hence why that will never happen, but those in charge of our governing body at the time are still there and that’s not on.

When frank said ‘should we investigate Livingston and hearts too, where does it stop’ it was clear he had no idea what it is that’s being pushed.

Last night we heard 90 minutes of stuff we already knew, apart from 5 minutes on away grounds feedback.

Classic 'straw man' stuff.

[GreenCastle]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

We already have a board that’s dong a good job at running the club. We didn’t need to add another 2 people to the board.

There does seems to be missing link where fans have feedback about the club but feel their opinion isn’t always heard.

Obviously football clubs will always have fans with opinions of some sort but the key is to find a way that feedback is somehow addressed.

Fans forums at the stadium / surgeries don’t seem to work or not been promoted well enough.

Hibs forums seem to be the most popular way but also a minefield as you can havenhndercover fans / journalists etc posting / trolling.

There should maybe be some sort of feedback before renewing a ST or midseason sent to st holders only.

Again is that a wide view of the full fan base ?

The 2 fans reps seem to have taken the heat off RP and co as they are now in the firing line - seems they are stuck in the middle - they listen and care to a degree but without the power to make much change.

The Hibs board has improved since LD took charge but I still think we could improve with someone at the club in a paid role to deal with feedback and supported issues - but again it’s making sure it reaches those who have the power to make change.