Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Ozyhibby]

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;5112299]

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Today is the SPFL AGM which makes Hibs decision to only get round to discuss this at next Monday's board meeting baffling. There will be a decision made today on this and we don't know how Hibs are going to vote? Has an executive decision been made without the approval of the board?
Can you provide any info please Tracey?


Is it on the agenda? I'd be surprised if this was part of the business of an AGM.

I'd be shocked if it was not discussed today seen as all the chairmen/women will be there.
Be good if Tracey can clarify though.


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[CropleyWasGod]

[QUOTE=Ozyhibby;5112310]

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I'd be shocked if it was not discussed today seen as all the chairmen/women will be there.
Be good if Tracey can clarify though.


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That's not what an AGM is usually for, though.

Have you seen the agenda?

[Ozyhibby]

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;5112320]

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That's not what an AGM is usually for, though.

Have you seen the agenda?

No. Do you not think they will announce something today from Hampden?


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[CropleyWasGod]

[QUOTE=Ozyhibby;5112337]

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No. Do you not think they will announce something today from Hampden?


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I don't know. I'd be surprised, though, if they used the AGM to discuss ongoing company business.

[worcesterhibby]

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;5112356]

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I don't know. I'd be surprised, though, if they used the AGM to discuss ongoing company business.

I'd agree..AGM's tend to be a report on the previous year (with an emphasis on finance). Shareholders with voting rights vote on current issues, such as appointments to the company's board of directors, executive compensation, dividend payments (although I don't believe this is relevant in this case ?). I'm sure they will do everything they can to avoid talking about Rangers EBT's

[Hibs07p]

according to this https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/new...bills-rangers/
Barry Fergusson has been declared bankrupt.


BARRY BANKRUPT Rangers hero Barry Ferguson bankrupt with debts of over £1.4 million after failing to settle tax bills


The ex-Scotland captain was declared insolvent after failing to settle large bills thought to be owed to the taxman



By Stuart MacDonald


24th July 2017, 11:29 am
Updated: 24th July 2017, 11:38 am


FORMER Rangers star Barry Ferguson has been made bankrupt with debts of more than £1.4 million.

The ex-Scotland captain was declared insolvent after failing to settle large bills thought to be owed to the taxman.
He is one of a number of former Ibrox stars who faced paying back money they had received in Employee Benefit Trusts (EBTs) after Rangers lost a battle with HMRC at the Supreme Court earlier this month.

Ferguson, 39, who recently stepped down as manager of Clyde, received £2.5 million in EBT payments.

He also invested in a film production partnership called Eclipse which has targeted by HMRC after being ruled to be a tax avoidance scheme.

Ferguson had a glittering career which included captaining Rangers to a host of honours. He also had spells in the English Premier League with Blackburn Rovers and Birmingham City.
He applied for his own bankruptcy after running up debts of £1,425,633 and it was approved by the Accountant In Bankruptcy, Scotland’s insolvency service, earlier this month.

A bankruptcy trustee, Maureen Leslie of Glasgow-based insolvency specialists MLM Solutions, has been appointed to take control of his assets and try to recover money owed to creditors.

Ferguson, who lives in a gated mansion near Larkhall, Lanarkshire, has declared that he has only £3,000 worth of assets available to help pay off his creditors.

The so-called Rangers ‘big tax case’ centred on the use of EBTs. More than £47million was paid to players, managers and directors between 2001 and 2010 in tax-free loans.

Earlier this month judges found that ‘loans’ paid to players and staff were in fact taxable earnings, in a decision that brought to a close legal proceedings that have dragged on for years.

HMRC said the ruling proved the EBT scheme was ‘contrived’ in that it presented payments as ‘loans’ rather than earnings, amounting to ‘tax avoidance’.
Ferguson was previously listed as a director with Eclipse Film Partners No.9, a scheme which allowed investors the opportunity to claim tax relief through investing in the production of movies.

In April last year, the Supreme Court upheld a judgement that one of the biggest partnerships, Eclipse 35, was a tax-avoidance scheme.

HMRC has used that judgement to issue demands to investors, who include several footballers and managers, in the other 38 similar partnerships.

Midfielder Ferguson was capped 45 times for his country and was widely regarded as one of the most gifted players of his generation.

He won the Scottish Premier League, Scottish Cup and Scottish League Cup five times each during his two spells at Rangers.

He was transferred to Blackburn in a £7.5 million deal in 2003 but returned to Ibrox two years later.

After retiring from the game he was appointed manager of Scottish League Two Club Clyde in 2014 but stepped down in February this year. He has recently been working as a football pundit.

Ferguson joins a list of former Old Firm stars who have gone bust in recent years including Chris Sutton, Craig Beattie, Colin Hendry, Rab Douglas, Kevin Drinkell and Bobby Petta.

Former Rangers star Gordon Durie was also declared bankrupt last year with debts of more than £200,000 after investing in a film production scheme.

GGTTH

[ian cruise]

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Saw this on Twitter yesterday, it's a rough estimate of what fans of each individual club paid to attend SPL games during the EBT years or the decade of deception as that twitter account called itAttachment 18932

And 5 of those clubs also signed players they couldn't afford and used administration to cover their bad management, some more than once. I'm not sticking up for Rangers but they weren't the only ones who were winning trophies with players they couldn't afford. Do we retrospectively take those trophies away too?

[Ozyhibby]

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And 5 of those clubs also signed players they couldn't afford and used administration to cover their bad management, some more than once. I'm not sticking up for Rangers but they weren't the only ones who were winning trophies with players they couldn't afford. Do we retrospectively take those trophies away too?

They weren't paying their players outside of their declared contracts as lodged with the SFA. Although I suspect Hearts were, there is no proof.
Rangers were committing fraud and have been caught. All the evidence is there. It's a slam dunk. I wish it were the same for the yams but it's not unfortunately.


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[Keith_M]

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And 5 of those clubs also signed players they couldn't afford and used administration to cover their bad management, some more than once. I'm not sticking up for Rangers but they weren't the only ones who were winning trophies with players they couldn't afford. Do we retrospectively take those trophies away too?

If they broke any SFA rules regarding the registration of players/contracts, then yes, why not.

[Is It On....]

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according to this https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/new...bills-rangers/
Barry Fergusson has been declared bankrupt.


BARRY BANKRUPT Rangers hero Barry Ferguson bankrupt with debts of over £1.4 million after failing to settle tax bills


The ex-Scotland captain was declared insolvent after failing to settle large bills thought to be owed to the taxman



By Stuart MacDonald


24th July 2017, 11:29 am
Updated: 24th July 2017, 11:38 am


FORMER Rangers star Barry Ferguson has been made bankrupt with debts of more than £1.4 million.

The ex-Scotland captain was declared insolvent after failing to settle large bills thought to be owed to the taxman.
He is one of a number of former Ibrox stars who faced paying back money they had received in Employee Benefit Trusts (EBTs) after Rangers lost a battle with HMRC at the Supreme Court earlier this month.

Ferguson, 39, who recently stepped down as manager of Clyde, received £2.5 million in EBT payments.

He also invested in a film production partnership called Eclipse which has targeted by HMRC after being ruled to be a tax avoidance scheme.

Ferguson had a glittering career which included captaining Rangers to a host of honours. He also had spells in the English Premier League with Blackburn Rovers and Birmingham City.
He applied for his own bankruptcy after running up debts of £1,425,633 and it was approved by the Accountant In Bankruptcy, Scotland’s insolvency service, earlier this month.

A bankruptcy trustee, Maureen Leslie of Glasgow-based insolvency specialists MLM Solutions, has been appointed to take control of his assets and try to recover money owed to creditors.

Ferguson, who lives in a gated mansion near Larkhall, Lanarkshire, has declared that he has only £3,000 worth of assets available to help pay off his creditors.

The so-called Rangers ‘big tax case’ centred on the use of EBTs. More than £47million was paid to players, managers and directors between 2001 and 2010 in tax-free loans.

Earlier this month judges found that ‘loans’ paid to players and staff were in fact taxable earnings, in a decision that brought to a close legal proceedings that have dragged on for years.

HMRC said the ruling proved the EBT scheme was ‘contrived’ in that it presented payments as ‘loans’ rather than earnings, amounting to ‘tax avoidance’.
Ferguson was previously listed as a director with Eclipse Film Partners No.9, a scheme which allowed investors the opportunity to claim tax relief through investing in the production of movies.

In April last year, the Supreme Court upheld a judgement that one of the biggest partnerships, Eclipse 35, was a tax-avoidance scheme.

HMRC has used that judgement to issue demands to investors, who include several footballers and managers, in the other 38 similar partnerships.

Midfielder Ferguson was capped 45 times for his country and was widely regarded as one of the most gifted players of his generation.

He won the Scottish Premier League, Scottish Cup and Scottish League Cup five times each during his two spells at Rangers.

He was transferred to Blackburn in a £7.5 million deal in 2003 but returned to Ibrox two years later.

After retiring from the game he was appointed manager of Scottish League Two Club Clyde in 2014 but stepped down in February this year. He has recently been working as a football pundit.

Ferguson joins a list of former Old Firm stars who have gone bust in recent years including Chris Sutton, Craig Beattie, Colin Hendry, Rab Douglas, Kevin Drinkell and Bobby Petta.

Former Rangers star Gordon Durie was also declared bankrupt last year with debts of more than £200,000 after investing in a film production scheme.

GGTTH

How can you be declared bankrupt whilst living in a "gated mansion"? I assume that this will be either the major part of his assets to be realised or the "hoose" and other assets are in his wife's name and he will be able to carry on as if nothing has happened.

[CropleyWasGod]

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How can you be declared bankrupt whilst living in a "gated mansion"? I assume that this will be either the major part of his assets to be realised or the "hoose" and other assets are in his wife's name and he will be able to carry on as if nothing has happened.

This is what will happen.

The Trustee takes possession of all of his assets, realises them, and distributes the proceeds amongst his creditors. In time, BF will have to move out.

If the house is in his wife's name, the timing of doing that is crucial. If he did it years ago, ie before the film-investment tax thing started, she may be able to hang on to it. Any time after that, and his share is up for grabs.

[Is It On....]

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;5112356]

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I don't know. I'd be surprised, though, if they used the AGM to discuss ongoing company business.

Can HMRC go after Barry Ferguson for unpaid tax relating to the EBT after his bankruptcy?

[CropleyWasGod]

[QUOTE=Is It On....;5112402]

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Can HMRC go after Barry Ferguson for unpaid tax relating to the EBT after his bankruptcy?

If they have already, they'll stand in line with the other creditors.

If they haven't yet, then they can't.

There isn't much to go on in the Sun's report, but I suspect that HMRC have forced the bankruptcy over his investment in the film schemes that have caught so many out (Darren Jackson, IIRC).

[Ozyhibby]

I would imagine this is more about the film tax evasion.
It's prob too early for HMRC to has started chasing players for EBT debts yet.


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[CropleyWasGod]

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I would imagine this is more about the film tax evasion.
It's prob to early for HMRC to has started chasing players for EBT debts yet.


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BF will have had his assessment some time (probably a few years) ago, and had the chance to pay it. The likelihood is that HMRC have already taken him to Court to force payment, and obtained a Court order. His inability to pay will have forced the latest step.

[AndyM_1875]

[QUOTE=Is It On....;5112402]

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Can HMRC go after Barry Ferguson for unpaid tax relating to the EBT after his bankruptcy?

If the tax owed is included in the Bankruptcy order then HMRC cannot take anything.
This happened to a friend of mine's business.

If HMRC are chasing additional tax debts incurred pre-dating a Bankruptcy then doubtful they'll get anything.

[JeMeSouviens]

Chris McLaughlin‏ @BBCchrismclaug

#Hibs chairman Rod Petrie emerges from #SPFL AGM and confirms new board will review Rangers' use of EBTs following Supreme Court verdict

[Bostonhibby]

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Chris McLaughlin‏ @BBCchrismclaug

#Hibs chairman Rod Petrie emerges from #SPFL AGM and confirms new board will review Rangers' use of EBTs following Supreme Court verdict

Some significant changes to the Board executive today? A the rangers man replacing Lawell and Mrs Budge still there. Two turkeys that might fancy deferring the festive season as far as trophies gained unfairly go?



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[FilipinoHibs]

[QUOTE=AndyM_1875;5112482]

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If the tax owed is included in the Bankruptcy order then HMRC cannot take anything.
This happened to a friend of mine's business.

If HMRC are chasing additional tax debts incurred pre-dating a Bankruptcy then doubtful they'll get anything.

Barry declared bankrupt according to Herald.

[snooky]

[QUOTE=SingHibs;5112529]

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Barry declared bankrupt according to Herald.

"Former Rangers and Scotland captain Barry Ferguson has been declared bankrupt after owing tax debts of over £1.4million. The midfielder was made insolvent after he did not settle large bills believed to be owed to the taxman. The 39-year-old, who was paid £2.5million in Employee Benefit Trusts (EBTs) at Rangers, filed for his own bankruptcy after racking up debts of £1,425,633." - Dundee Evening Telegraph

[AndyM_1875]

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Some significant changes to the Board executive today? A the rangers man replacing Lawell and Mrs Budge still there. Two turkeys that might fancy deferring the festive season as far as trophies gained unfairly go?



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Lawell's move is tactical so the bams can't point the finger at him whilst this goes down. He'll probably come back next year.

Cue a "strongly worded statement" from the SPFL slating David Murray/Rangers/Sevco and then some platitudes about "moving on for the good of the game" before business as usual.

[Hibs07p]

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Some significant changes to the Board executive today? A the rangers man replacing Lawell and Mrs Budge still there. Two turkeys that might fancy deferring the festive season as far as trophies gained unfairly go?



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If you read the first paragraph, and the last two JJ may have hit the nail on the head, I don't know.

https://johnjamessite.com/2017/07/20...lls-long-game/


GGTTH

[Bostonhibby]

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Lawell's move is tactical so the bams can't point the finger at him whilst this goes down. He'll probably come back next year.

Cue a "strongly worded statement" from the SPFL slating David Murray/Rangers/Sevco and then some platitudes about "moving on for the good of the game" before business as usual.

Wouldn't be at all surprised if you're right.

[Bostonhibby]

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If you read the first paragraph, and the last two JJ may have hit the nail on the head, I don't know.

https://johnjamessite.com/2017/07/20...lls-long-game/


GGTTH

Certainly another interesting take on it, C'mon the Appeal board.

[BegbieHSC]

It's joyful to watch the hun implosion over Petrie. They're all over twitter/forums warning us about coming near Ibrox in two weeks time

[Bostonhibby]

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It's joyful to watch the hun implosion over Petrie. They're all over twitter/forums warning us about coming near Ibrox in two weeks time

And yet (if I understand the SPFL Hierarchy correctly) if the titles are stripped it won't be as a result of a vote by Our Rod(?)

Are the the huns as stupid as the huns who used to follow the now defunct Glasgow rangers ?

[BegbieHSC]

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And yet (if I understand the SPFL Hierarchy correctly) if the titles are stripped it won't be as a result of a vote by Our Rod(?)

Are the the huns as stupid as the huns who used to follow the now defunct Glasgow rangers ?

They are indeed. If you want a real laugh on a Monday afternoon, take a wee gander onto follow follow, and have a swatch at their thread on Petrie...

[Jack]

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How can you be declared bankrupt whilst living in a "gated mansion"? I assume that this will be either the major part of his assets to be realised or the "hoose" and other assets are in his wife's name and he will be able to carry on as if nothing has happened.

I've no idea where he lives but it's not beyond the realms of possibility that Barry the crab lives in one of many flats in the [developed] gated mansion.

[Spike Mandela]

Conversely, I fully expect Petrie to advise the new SPFL board on a strategy for avoiding doing anything regarding the worst sporting scandal in British football, as he and his fellow SFA lickspittles have done.

[Ozyhibby]

Just catching up, been at the cinema all afternoon watching Captain Underpants.
Well done Rod Petrie, although I'm waiting to see what the scope of any review is before forgiving him his sins. Surely they can't try the same old trick they did with LNS?
Anyway, hopefully more detail later today.


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