Apologies for the delay, some idiot arranged a meeting I had to attend
Proceedings open with the court continuingto hear evidence from Ross Bryan, a former Investment manager at Ticketus
Bryan says that Ticketus asked for an"awareness letter" confirming David Murray knew of 3rd partyinvolvement
Court shown email from witness to Whyte andPhill Betts 3 March 2011 "one last deep breath to get over the line..theslam dunk on this issue would be to get Sir David to write a confirmationletter"
Bryan says they wanted David Murray to knowthere was an "institution" involved in the takeover.
Witness says the club would not be in debtto Ticketus, but season ticket income would be lower. "When the customerbought the ticket the money wouldn't go to the club"
Draft letter shown to court says DavidMurray had been offered, and accepted "Life Presidency" of the club.
Email from Whyte shown to court, saysTicketus request is "pretty much" what he has discussed with Murray.
Later Whyte email "In conversationswith Sir David I mentioned a 3rd party would be providing a significant chunkof the funding"
Court shown letter signed by Whyte sayinghe has spoken to Murray about 3rd party funding.
Reply from Bryan to Whyte, says chairman ishappy with letter, "I'll let you know asap if we're in the clear."
Bryan confirms the agreement with Whytetook into account the possibility of an insolvency event at Rangers
Bryan agrees that the Ticketus deal wouldhave a "major financial impact on Rangers" and needed board approval
Bryan says Ticketus paid season ticket money to Rangers,who lent it to Wavetower, who paid the bank debt
Bryan confirms paying the bank debt toLloyds was a condition of providing the funds to Whyte.
Bryan says total deal was £24m £18m to payLloyds, £2m 'free cash to the club" rest VAT
break
View Poll Results: What is your attitude to a new "Rangers" entering at Div1?
- Voters
- 1016. You may not vote on this poll
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Opposed - and will walk away from Scottish professional football
537 52.85% -
Opposed - but will continue to support the game.
454 44.69% -
In favour.
25 2.46%
Results 37,051 to 37,080 of 45185
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17-05-2017 12:52 PM #37051There is no such thing as too much yarn, just not enough time.
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17-05-2017 12:59 PM #37052
Court resumes with Donald Findlay QC risingto cross-examine Mr Bryan
Bryan says Octopus managed around £1+billion in funds in 2010. About 120 employees.
Witness says his job was to sourceInvestment opportunities and then progress them into legal contracts.
Findlay suggests Octopus had a duty not totake unnecessary risks with their client's money. Bryan agrees
Bryan confirms the was first approchedabout Rangers by Nigel Farr, "he was hoping to get a brokers fee"Introduced Phill Betts
Phil Betts was an "asset backedbanker" Bryan says. He arranged first meeting with Craig Whyte at theOctopus office Bryan "I believe there were other gentlemen there" buthe can't recall their names.
Bryan says Ticketus had 12 footballclients. Names Manchester United as one, refuses to name others.
Jury and witness leave court while a legalmatter is discussed
Jury returns, Bryan says Ticketus workedwith 6 English Premier league clubs, some in Europe. No other Scottish clients.
Findlay suggests: "a great number ofpeople in football would know about Ticketus" Bryan "only 3-4 at eachclub"
Witness agrees other staff at footballclubs might know about any deal with Ticketus. Says might be 100 or so
Findlay "apart from Mr Whyte is thereanyone else you know in this courtroom" Bryan says "a solicitor forOctopus is in the audience" (with the big bag of popcorn J )
Findlay "I noticed you kept lookingover there" (HMMM!! Taking direction?Cough, cough!)
Lunch
There is no such thing as too much yarn, just not enough time.
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17-05-2017 01:28 PM #37053This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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17-05-2017 01:30 PM #37054This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show QuoteThere is no such thing as too much yarn, just not enough time.
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17-05-2017 02:13 PM #37055
Afternoon update
Proceedings resume with Donald Findlay QCcontinuing his cross-examination of former Ticketus investment manager RossBryan
Findlay "from that first meeting therewas the possibility of buying the shares" Bryan "All avenues wereopen"
Bryan says he can't recall if Lloyds debtwas discussed at the first meeting. Believes not mentioned until 2011.
Ticketus memo from October 2010 shown tocourt, mentions repayment of bank debt.
Deal at the point was £20m for 45% ofseason tickets in year one, 45% in year two, 35% in year 3.
Memo notes if they added the existing dealTicketus would control 61% of the club's season tickets in 2011-2012
Bryan "Selling season tickets wassensitive..fans might boycott..we were not publicity hungry"
Witness says Ticketus wanted Murray to knowabout 3rd party involvement for "anti-embarrassment reasons"
Bryan "We didn't want to embarrass theseller" Findlay "Are you sticking with that?" Bryan"Yes"
Findlay "If you spend £500 on a seasonticket you might hope the club is getting the benefit, but £50 is going to somefund in London."
Bryan "Ok, yeah." Findlay"Requires secrecy?" Bryan "You could argue that" Findlay"I don't argue, I ask questions."
Findlay "Ticketus wanted theirinvolvement kept secret?" Bryan "To a point" Findlay "Whatpoint?"
Findlay: Ticketus don't want their dealknown but don't want to embarrass David Murray." Did you keep it secretfrom him? "Ultimately, yes"
Findlay "You didn't want David Murrayto know because he might pull the plug on the deal, you didn't care aboutembarrassing him"
Findlay "If you were genuinelyconcerned why didn't someone pick up the phone and ask him rather than thisrigmarole?'
Bryan says contacting Murray would havebeen a breach of financial regulations.
Findlay "Rangers were a client, whydidn't you speak to them?" Bryan "I didn't speak to them."Findlay "The mythical Chinese wall."
Findlay asks why Ticketus didn'tinvestigate through their lawyers? Bryan "We eventually did" Findlay"Will I find that on a piece of paper?" Bryan "I don't think youwill"
Bryan says he did one football deal formore than £20m, rest were only £4-5m Findlay "You were keen to put itthrough" "Yes"
There is no such thing as too much yarn, just not enough time.
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17-05-2017 03:26 PM #37056
Findlay "Can you embarrass acompany?" Suggests worry was embarrassing David Murray
Findlay Do you know of any communicationbetween lawyers for Ticketus and lawyers for Murray Group?
Bryan says he would have expected Murrayteam to notice ref to third party funding in share purchase agreement
Bryan says it was Ticketus who asked formention of third party funding to be added to share purchase agreement. Adds heexpected Murray lawyers to ask about change but didn't happen
Ticketus memo shown to court. Says wouldexpect word of their involvement to "filter back to Sir David" weneed to ensure "Sir David's has no motive to release a unhelpful statementto the press." Unhappy fans still buy season tickets"
Findlay "You didn't care about DavidMurray." Bryan "It would be embarrassing for Murray that new ownerhad solved the problem."
Findlay "You had no intention ofpulling the plug." Bryan "The risk changed from October to May"
Findlay asks if lawyers for Ticketus lookedinto legal aspects of the deal Bryan says view was if ownership transferred waslegal
Ticketus memo "Our funding is not required topurchase the club" hence no issue with "financial assistance"
Findlay suggests that Ticketus had expertlegal advice the deal was legal. Bryan "That was when he was paying£5m" Findlay "Did you get further advice when the price dropped to apound?" Bryan "We didn't repeat the exercise"
Findlay asks Bryan if he ever got an emailfrom David Murray confirming he knew about 3rd party funding? "I don'tthink we did"
Findlay "Was there a phone call fromWhyte saying he had talked to David Murray about 3rd party Bryan "At thistime I don't recall"
Findlay "Are you seriously sayingTicketus took no steps to Independently check" Bryan "No"
Bryan "Was in the Share PurchaseAgreement, we expected he read it."
Findlay Says "It's clear that Murraymust have known there was 3rd party funding" Bryan "Yes"
Court adjourns
There is no such thing as too much yarn, just not enough time.
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17-05-2017 04:32 PM #37057This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I'd love to know what any of this mess has to do with our magnificent, wonderful, glorious, cup-winning, goal-scoring, new contact signing, captain fantastic.
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17-05-2017 05:35 PM #37058
This is compulsive, coming home from work to read the next instalment.
Many thanks GF.
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17-05-2017 06:31 PM #37059
- Join Date
- Nov 2016
- Posts
- 2,550
May have missed something but is Octopus the asset management business based in London? If so, what are they supposed to have done / provided to Sevco / Craig Whyte?
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17-05-2017 06:56 PM #37060This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk
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17-05-2017 07:11 PM #37061This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show QuoteThere is no such thing as too much yarn, just not enough time.
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17-05-2017 07:14 PM #37062This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk
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17-05-2017 08:56 PM #37063This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show QuoteThere is no such thing as too much yarn, just not enough time.
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17-05-2017 09:05 PM #37064This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Kraken up at that one.
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17-05-2017 09:06 PM #37065This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk
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17-05-2017 09:53 PM #37066
Was so obvious at the time whitey gambled everything on qualification to CL & when team failed it was a busted flush, take it this is all recorded previously.
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17-05-2017 10:04 PM #37067
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
- Posts
- 2,701
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18-05-2017 08:14 AM #37068This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
He appointed his own pals in the insolvency, and still didn't get away with the assets.
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18-05-2017 08:20 AM #37069This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show QuoteThere is no such thing as too much yarn, just not enough time.
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18-05-2017 08:25 AM #37070This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I'm more of the view that CW did gamble on the CL money. That he intended to cash-in later on, perhaps through a sale.
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18-05-2017 08:44 AM #37071
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- Feb 2008
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Whyte seems to have worked previously as an asset-stripper who transferred companies' assets into off-shore ownership. It's plausible that the occasional doubts about the ownership of Ibrox ("Show us the deeds") is because he'd set off down that route. Maybe he realised he was out of his depth this time,
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18-05-2017 08:53 AM #37072This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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18-05-2017 08:55 AM #37073
a wee taster for today
https://t.co/XW08vRh7Ed
There is no such thing as too much yarn, just not enough time.
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18-05-2017 09:00 AM #37074This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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18-05-2017 10:49 AM #37075
This morning in the Big Brother House
Proceedings resumed with defence counselDonald Findlay QC continuing his cross-examination of Crown witness Ross Bryan
Bryan told the court yesterday that in 2010he was an investment manager at Ticketus
Bryan confirms that it was Ticketus whowanted "third party funding" mentioned in the agreement between Whyteand Murray group
Witness says Ticketus wanted "the clubto perform" so it continued to sell season tickets
Findlay notes normal process with 3rd partyfunding is to put money in an "escrow" account until deal iscompleted. Bryan agrees
Findlay "It's not going to be someonehanding over £20m in a suitcase?" Bryan "No"
Findlay before Whyte did you know AndrewEllis and Chris Akers were interested in buying Rangers? Bryan "Yes"
Findlay "Did a member of theInvestment committee make inquiries about Akers and Ellis? "He said hewould speak to contacts in Scotland"
Findlay "Do you remember telephonecall from William Murdoch about people buying Rangers?"
Findlay "It would seem a littledifficult to square a high degree of confidentiality with a conversation on agolf course"
Bryan asked if he knows a Paul Hassal?"Yes" Do you remember email exchange? Yes"
Bryan says Hassal "Made an inquiryabout doing a deal with Ticketus?" Did he know about the Craig Whyte dealwith Rangers? Bryan "Yes"
Findlay Two people outside the deal knewabout it? Bryan "Unfortunately, yes"
Bryan "I got cold called once bysomeone who knew about the deal with Rangers and asked if interested in anotherScottish club"
Findlay uses a hypothetical company"Micky Mouse ltd" to suggest Wavetower guarantee was"worthless" as it had no assets
Findlay to witness "Do try and helpme, I know it's all very tedious"
Findlay "orginally Murray wanted £5mfor shares, eventually given away for nothing" Bryan "This coincidedwith discussion of the tax case
Findlay asks about tax cases "when didTicketus get wind of them?" Bryan: Didn't come up in due diligence, foundout in April/May
Bryan "Normally you would expect thesethings to be disclosed, should have been in initial data room."
Court shown email, 5 April 2011, fromwitness to Phil Betts, David Grier and others titled "Tax case hurdleinfo"
Bryan confirms Grier was assisting Whytewith the tax cases . His company later became Duff and Phelps, administratorsof Rangers
Findlay 'If Grier said later he didn't knowabout Ticketus that would be an absolute lie?" Bryan "Would be hardto believe"
FinLast edited by Moulin Yarns; 18-05-2017 at 12:23 PM.
There is no such thing as too much yarn, just not enough time.
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18-05-2017 12:37 PM #37076
More.
MORE…
Bryan email suggests scenarios for big taxcase 4 is "Murray loses and HMRC want it all-The Armageddon scenario"
Email continues "Technically Rangerscould phoenix the club" Bryan says this putting into administration toclear out problems
Bryan says he would have expected the £2.8msmall tax case bill to have been disclosed earlier
Next email from Bryan to Craig Whyte andPhill Betts over tax cases shown to court "nervous about quality ofinformation club is supplying"
Findlay "The problem with the big taxcase was there wasn't a number" [on the potential liability] Bryan"Correct"
Email continues "The press coverage ofthe "suprise" £2.8m tax case...did nothing to instill confidence inthe club's truthfulness"
Bryan "There were a couple of times wefound out things through the media. I don't know how they got it." J (All hail Hibs.net)
Email suggests the maximum potentialliability in "big tax case" was £100m
Email: Discusses "Craig's privatediscussions with HMRC...£5m a year over a few years would satisfy them."
Bryan email on the "Armageddon"of HMRC winning the big tax case. Suggests: "Instructing an administratorto protect it's interests." Theclub is pre-packed to rid it of the HMRC debt and Craig/Wavetower take controland honour the Ticketus agreement"
Findlay "Who thought this up?"Bryan "Came from Mr Whyte's side."
"How does Scottish administrationdiffer from English?...looks after the charge-holder first and foremost. Craigwill call the shots."
Continues "My 'middle eastern nutter'scenario could play out ( he buys the club and Craig/Ticketus are left out) "Weneed to be crystal clear that Craig would be in control."
Email continues "How would the SPLtreat a pre-pack? Asks for clarity on the "Armageddon scenario" oflosing licence to play
Findlay "It is clear the tax issuesmight have scared the Investment committee completely?"
Findlay "The jury may conclude Murrayhadn't been entirely candid about information in the data room?" Bryan"Correct"
Findlay on the deal signing "As soonas the cap was back on the Mont Blanc the money was available" Bryan"It's a normal procedure"
Findlay ends cross-examination, AdvocateDepute rises to re-examine.
There is no such thing as too much yarn, just not enough time.
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18-05-2017 12:40 PM #37077
Continued…
AD "Ticketus had no access to contentof data room?" Bryan "Correct" AD "No contact withMurray" Bryan "Correct"
AD "You had to rely on what peopletold you?" Bryan "Yes, we couldn't go directly and askquestions."
Bryan agrees Ticketus did not want word ofthe proposed deal "leaking out to the wider community." Never calledMurray
Lunch!!
There is no such thing as too much yarn, just not enough time.
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18-05-2017 03:13 PM #37078
And this afternoon.
Advocate Depute ends and Bryan steps downfrom the witness box Next witness, Phillip Betts (former RFC director)
Betts is sworn in, tells the court he is 54and works as a "asset finance broker"
Betts confirms he knows Craig Whyte, pointsto him in the dock. Says he first met the accused in 2009.
Witness said he became a director ofMerchant Turnaround in 2010, Whyte was company secretary. Invested in"distressed businesses"
Betts says he introduced Whyte to DavidGrier in 2009. Says Grier worked for MCR which became Duff and Phelps
Witness says he became aware of Whyte'sinterest in buying Rangers in mid 2010. Phoned him up and offered to help.
Betts says he made some "discreetenquiries" about funding a takeover, was told "would be verydifficult."
Witness says Whyte told him he was"struggling to find the funds, which he found surprising. Later spoke toNigel Farr"
Betts says he told Farr "Mr Whyte is avery easygoing chap and very wealthy" He arranged meeting with Ticketus.
Betts says he already knew Rangers wereinvolved with Ticketus. Meeting went well and interest expressed
Betts says he later became a director of Wavetower,the "vehicle" Whyte used to buy Rangers.
The witness says as well as TicketusMerchant Turnaround was a possible source of funds. Betts was a director ofMerchant Turnaround. Agrees he had a "duty of care" to it'sinvestors
In March 2011 £1m was transferred fromMerchant Turnaround to Colloyer Bristow witness confirms
AD "Had there been board approval forthis transfer of funds" Betts "No" but after a pause says"there must have been"
Betts says he asked Whyte about gettingpermission to transfer the £1m. Was told "he would handle it."
Betts says he asked Whyte about gettingpermission to transfer the £1m. Was told "he would handle it."
Witness says that in 2012 a new directordiscovered the £1m had been transferred out of the Colloyer Bristow account.
Betts says he was unaware of any authoritygiven for the funds to be transferred.
Betts says he went to Edinburgh for thedeal completion on 5 May 2011. "We sat around all day twiddling ourthumbs"
On the next day documents were signed AD"Was a pound coin produced at all?" Betts "It was flicked acrossthe table"
Betts shown 9 May agreement for Rangers tolend Wavetower £16m. Witness says he signed for Rangers as a director
Betts says he has no memory of the documentbut agrees he signed it. Was also a director of Wavetower
AD "Did you read it before you signedit?" Betts "Probably"
Court adjourns until 10.15 tomorrow
There is no such thing as too much yarn, just not enough time.
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18-05-2017 03:23 PM #37079This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
It's late in the day, so maybe I'm being thick. Is this something new?
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18-05-2017 03:29 PM #37080This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Edit, not much digging
The “Season Tickets” were 23,154 for 11/12, 27,017 for 12/13, 27,014 for 13/14 and 23,154 for 14/15. Effectively Rangers were giving up their rights to this income for the seasons mentioned. The form was signed by Phil Betts, director of Rangers and also heavily involved with Close Finance, and Mr Whyte himself.Last edited by Moulin Yarns; 18-05-2017 at 03:33 PM.
There is no such thing as too much yarn, just not enough time.
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