Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[lapsedhibee]

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It's hardly a hun apologist line to state that LNS dealt with the side letter issue - that is just a statement of fact and the hun is in turmoil irrespective of the issue of side letters.

At what point do we recognise that the very future of Scottish football as a full-time professional sport is at serious risk, and that is a far far greater issue than deleting a few hun references here and there?

Armageddonism is certainly a hun apologist line.

[Kavinho]

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It's hardly a hun apologist line to state that LNS dealt with the side letter issue - that is just a statement of fact and the hun is in turmoil irrespective of the issue of side letters.

At what point do we recognise that the very future of Scottish football as a full-time professional sport is at serious risk, and that is a far far greater issue than deleting a few hun references here and there?

When the foundations of the decision is questionable, it's fair to say that the issue has not yet been put to bed, despite the governing body's attempts to close it out.


Absolutely, the future of the game is at risk, which is surely why it's in everyone's interests to continue to ask the questions and make sure there is no watergate styled cover ups...



It takes a lot of digging to unearth a truth that those in high places want to remain buried.....


.... Which brings me to The Curse of Oak Island...
Anyone watching it?!

[Glesgahibby]

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1. True
2a. Has LNS acknowledged that he was deceived on the side letter issue?
2b. Has LNS asserted that his previous findings on the side letters are now null and void?

Does it matter what LNS thinks now?
at the end of the day,his report is not worth anything anymore!
If/when/maybees aye or naw this goes to the highest court in the land,then who could argue with its findings?
two, let me repeat"two" that's 2% of appeals to the Supreme Court over a one year period are overturned

[Brunswickbill]

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The resolution says... "the allotment of equity securities in connection with or pursuant to an offer of, or invitation to holders of equity securities and other persons entitled to participate in proportion (as nearly as practicable) to their then holdings of equity securities".

I read that as....Had it passed, then they would have been entitled to issue shares to existing shareholders based on their existing shareholdings (eg the soft lenders). However, it failed.

Lawyers on here to translate, please?

According to STV they can convert loans to shares for existing shareholders up to a limit but "The move will also prevent soft loans currently provided to the company from numerous investors from being converted into shares as planned."

http://news.stv.tv/west-central/1334...of-new-shares/

[CentreLine]

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When the foundations of the decision is questionable, it's fair to say that the issue has not yet been put to bed, despite the governing body's attempts to close it out.


Absolutely, the future of the game is at risk, which is surely why it's in everyone's interests to continue to ask the questions and make sure there is no watergate styled cover ups...



It takes a lot of digging to unearth a truth that those in high places want to remain buried.....


.... Which brings me to The Curse of Oak Island...
Anyone watching it?!

Yep. Good entertainment if a little slow. But like this saga really.

[JeMeSouviens]

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It's hardly a hun apologist line to state that LNS dealt with the side letter issue - that is just a statement of fact and the hun is in turmoil irrespective of the issue of side letters.

At what point do we recognise that the very future of Scottish football as a full-time professional sport is at serious risk, and that is a far far greater issue than deleting a few hun references here and there?

Since the Old Huns went pop the only club that's been in trouble is the Yams, for completely different reasons. Without the Huns, Aberdeen and Hearts are starting to fill the vacuum (and we could join them if our recovery continues), St Johnstone, St Mirren, Aberdeen and ICT have all won trophies and Celtc are going backwards at a rate of knots. We're still a long way from a competitive league with a level playing field but at least we're heading in the right direction and our clubs are giving the best Scottish youth more of a platform than they've had for decades. Why we would we want a manifestation of the Huns back?

[Ozyhibby]

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It's hardly a hun apologist line to state that LNS dealt with the side letter issue - that is just a statement of fact and the hun is in turmoil irrespective of the issue of side letters.

At what point do we recognise that the very future of Scottish football as a full-time professional sport is at serious risk, and that is a far far greater issue than deleting a few hun references here and there?

LNS was mislead on the application of the rules by Sandy Bryson.
How is the future of Scottish football at risk?


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[Ozyhibby]

http://www.onfieldsofgreen.com/sevco...en-space-bats/


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[Brunswickbill]

Going back to the Sports Direct Loan.......I am not convinced that Sevco are in default. I can’t find any reference to there being a time limit. If you look at the statement issued by SD/MA to support their resolution put to the General meeting in June

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/f...lining-5857906

it states “RFC is fully entitled at any time to repay the current £5 million loan to Sports Direct and revert back to the prior shareholding in Rangers Retail of 51% RFC and 49% Sports Direct.” It doesn’t refer to any time limit.
Similarly the expulsion of Lambias and Leach, MA/SD’s nominees on the board, doesn’t appear to be a matter which can be challenged in the court.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...directors.html


The above article states that Lambias offered his and Leach’s resignation if they got a year’s salary. The request was refused and the article goes on “the new board is proceeding with delicacy and precision in respect of contractual matters, wary of triggering unnecessary and potentially expensive legal cases.”

MA/SD have shown that they are more than willing to go to court to secure their interests and if there were a legal way of securing to repayment of the £5m I’m sure that they would have done so.
It looks to me that MA/SD must have thought that Christmas came early when they managed to get security on Murray Park, Edmiston House and Albion Street car park, 2 board members, control of and 75% of profit from Rangers retail and his pals appointed as CEO and Finance Director; effectively running the club for £5m. But when King and his cronies made the hostile takeover a much of his control was usurped. MA/SD effectively found themselves funding the new board with the £5m loan. MA/SD asked for their money back saying “Sports Direct is not a bank” but the board refused. The meeting called in June was his nice way of saying “I’m serious.”

King perhaps thought that he was in a good bargaining position as clearly Sevco appear to have been in control of the £5m loan and its repayment. MA/SD found other means to exert pressure with their contempt of court action on King and the F&P action with the SFA. It seems to me that what MA/SD want is their money back and that may well be the primary reason for the court actions, also a lesson not to play silly bu**ers with him and his company.

If this is the case what is likely to happen? I appears to me that there are at least 2 broad scenarios. One based on MA/SD making it personal and the other making a business based decision.

Scenario 1. MA/SD take King and the SFA all the way through the courts. Who knows what the results of the court action will be. Especially now that SEVCO want to repay the loan. If King and the SFA win, MA/SD will look pretty foolish. If MA/SD win they will do in the man who is seen by many of the blue nose persuasion as a white night and may well put the SFA/SPFL into disarray. But they will be left with a retail contract which can’t be producing the expected returns and an impact on the SD brand in Scotland. Also a football establishment that aren’t too happy with him. Potentially a lose-lose situation.

Scenario 2. MA/SD take the option to settle and withdraw the court actions (assuming he can do this). King’s statement at the AGM re the repaying of the loan looks like this is what SEVCO aim to do. MA/SD are in a pretty strong bargaining position and may be able to secure a settlement that is beneficial to them. If they call off the hounds they can get their money back (assuming that SEVCO actually have the readies) and possibly secure a settlement to their advantage with SEVCO encouraging the fans to buy their shirts from SD for Christmas. Under this scenario they shake hands and pretend that everything is hunky dory.
Clearly many more options are available. MA/SD have made it clear that they won’t be pushed around but we shouldn’t lose sight of the fact that MA is first and foremost a businessman who will want to protect his companies interests and SD acts with a business head.

Interesting to see other peoples’ take on this.

Oh, forgot to say, under both scenarios Hibs win the league and RIFC have to face the play offs.

[jgl07]

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Remember Fulham winning a major trophy, the FA cup around 1975, and they have consistently appeared at a higher league level than the rangers so if you listen to what they all had to say about natural progression they should be delighted the warbler is getting a chance at a higher level, and much nearer to London where general bull****ting goes a long way.............

I don't think Fulham have ever won the FA Cup or any major trophy?

They were beaten in the 1975 final by West Ham.

[Keith_M]

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I don't think Fulham have ever won the FA Cup or any major trophy?

They were beaten in the 1975 final by West Ham.

Fulham have never won the English League, FA Cup or League Cup.

[Bostonhibby]

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I don't think Fulham have ever won the FA Cup or any major trophy?

They were beaten in the 1975 final by West Ham.

Got me there, but I am going down in a blaze of glory by suggesting that getting up from the Championship to the EPL is a bigger achievement than anything the new boys have ever achieved. As was qualifying for Europe via the fair play spot

[lapsedhibee]

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I don't think Fulham have ever won the FA Cup or any major trophy?

They were beaten in the 1975 final by West Ham.

Also beaten in a European final (Europa/Yoofa/whatever) relatively recently (more recently than The The Huns were, I think).

[Keith_M]

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Also beaten in a European final (Europa/Yoofa/whatever) relatively recently (more recently than The The Huns were, I think).

That Intertoto thing?

[hibs0666]

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Armageddonism is certainly a hun apologist line.

Jesus H. Have a look at what is happening in Scottish football and paint me the positives please.

Deary me.

[Topographic Hibby]

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That Intertoto thing?

No, lost the 2010 Europa League final to Atletico Madrid, after extra time, in Hamburg.

The city of Hamburg was not kicked into oblivion by blootered losing supporters and the fine police officers of the host city were not treated like easy targets by marauding fans in Union Flags singing about Ulster.

Fulham sounds like a fine place Warby, go for it.

[hibs0666]

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LNS was mislead on the application of the rules by Sandy Bryson.
How is the future of Scottish football at risk?


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The future of Scottish football is at risk because we exhibit paralysis by analysis.

People seem delighted the longer that this turmoil continues. At a time when the game desperately needs investment on-going turmoil is precisely the last thing that we need.

[jgl07]

Fulham had a sustained spell in the English top division in the 1950s through to the 1969s. They used to have a flag for all First Division clubs around the stadium. When they were relegated to the old Second Division they decided not to put the other flags up as they were only be founding to be there a short time.

This was a good decision as they were soon relegated to Division Three!

[Keith_M]

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The future of Scottish football is at risk because we exhibit paralysis by analysis.

People seem delighted the longer that this turmoil continues. At a time when the game desperately needs investment on-going turmoil is precisely the last thing that we need.

Apologies if I've picked you up wrong but are you equating the desire to see (The) Rangers get their just Desserts with the demise of Scootish Football?

[Keith_M]

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No, lost the 2010 Europa League final to Atletico Madrid, after extra time, in Hamburg.

....

Cheers.

[Spike Mandela]

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The future of Scottish football is at risk because we exhibit paralysis by analysis.

People seem delighted the longer that this turmoil continues. At a time when the game desperately needs investment on-going turmoil is precisely the last thing that we need.

Ach at least you've got a Petrofac cup final to look forward to.

[steakbake]

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Jesus H. Have a look at what is happening in Scottish football and paint me the positives please.

Deary me.

Well, outside of the "O"F, attendance generally is up. Several clubs reporting far healthier financial positions despite the loss of the apparent blue pound.

Downsides: the game is run by a cabal of fools who armageddonised the product in a way Gerald Ratner could have only dreamed possible. The media covering it are soaked in a sense of Rangers' entitlement meaning people who want at least a counterbalance have to seek the views of bloggers online. We've also not qualified for a major tournament since 98 but I'd gladly blame that on the rise of the OF duopoly and of course, all those players who Mr Black (cough David Murray) said he wouldn't otherwise have got in creating a disincentive to be patient with bringing through youth.

Despite sharing a league with them, I've not missed Rangers at all, least of all their disgraceful fans.

[jabis]

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The future of Scottish football is at risk because we exhibit paralysis by analysis.

People seem delighted the longer that this turmoil continues. At a time when the game desperately needs investment on-going turmoil is precisely the last thing that we need.

Well said sir,the sooner the rangers or servo get booted out,the better for Scottish football!

[hibs0666]

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Apologies if I've picked you up wrong but are you equating the desire to see (The) Rangers get their just Desserts with the demise of Scootish Football?

Rangers were liquidated. How many more just desserts do you want?

[hibs0666]

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Ach at least you've got a Petrofac cup final to look forward to.

Ho ho.

[HFC 0-7]

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Rangers were liquidated. How many more just desserts do you want?

They were booted out for being put into administration, then liquidation. They still have to face the consequences of the side letters. IMO, the recent ruling on the payments being liable to tax result in them being a form of salary. If I remember right LNS didnt class these as a salary. LNS judgement was based on an understanding of what those payments were at the time. That has changed now. LNS also said that they didnt gain a competitive advantage from this, the recent ruling would change the complexion of that.

Rangers deserve the punishment for the rules they broke, in the same manner other clubs have been for lesser offences. If this is creating a bad image for scottish football, in particular the SFA and SPFL then so be it. Hopefully this will be a wake up call and they will start running things properly in the future.

Even if we brush their past issues under the carpet, Rangers are still causing an embarrassment to Scottish football. the second largest club in scotland, after liquidation, still not learning from their mistakes by spending cash they dont have in their pursuit of getting back to the top. Rangers deserve to be punished.

[hibs0666]

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Well, outside of the "O"F, attendance generally is up. Several clubs reporting far healthier financial positions despite the loss of the apparent blue pound.

Nope, that is not the case with attendances I'm afraid, and the only reason that our clubs are in a healthier financial position is because of the huge levels of indebtedness that has been written off or otherwise shed by pretty much every club bar the tims and Aberdeen.

Downsides: the game is run by a cabal of fools who armageddonised the product in a way Gerald Ratner could have only dreamed possible. The media covering it are soaked in a sense of Rangers' entitlement meaning people who want at least a counterbalance have to seek the views of bloggers online. We've also not qualified for a major tournament since 98 but I'd gladly blame that on the rise of the OF duopoly and of course, all those players who Mr Black (cough David Murray) said he wouldn't otherwise have got in creating a disincentive to be patient with bringing through youth.

These are all symptoms of a much wider malaise. Slowly but surely the game is dying up here yet the key thing most people care about - above all else - is to see a dead football club get another kicking.

[hibs0666]

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They were booted out for being put into administration, then liquidation. They still have to face the consequences of the side letters. IMO, the recent ruling on the payments being liable to tax result in them being a form of salary. If I remember right LNS didnt class these as a salary. LNS judgement was based on an understanding of what those payments were at the time. That has changed now. LNS also said that they didnt gain a competitive advantage from this, the recent ruling would change the complexion of that.

The side letters have been ruled upon previously.

Rangers deserve the punishment for the rules they broke, in the same manner other clubs have been for lesser offences. If this is creating a bad image for scottish football, in particular the SFA and SPFL then so be it. Hopefully this will be a wake up call and they will start running things properly in the future.

The club died. What more punishment can you give?

Even if we brush their past issues under the carpet, Rangers are still causing an embarrassment to Scottish football. the second largest club in scotland, after liquidation, still not learning from their mistakes by spending cash they dont have in their pursuit of getting back to the top. Rangers deserve to be punished.

Eh, nah. You canny punish a club for being an embarrassment.

[HFC 0-7]

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Nope, that is not the case with attendances I'm afraid, and the only reason that our clubs are in a healthier financial position is because of the huge levels of indebtedness that has been written off or otherwise shed by pretty much every club bar the tims and Aberdeen.



These are all symptoms of a much wider malaise. Slowly but surely the game is dying up here yet the key thing most people care about - above all else - is to see a dead football club get another kicking.

Possibly to ensure that the same club is punished properly and make sure they dont cheat again and have Scottish football as fair as possible. From the punishments that have been handed out to Rangers so far, how many do you think have made them think twice about doing similar things in the future? Just look at the amount of money they spent to get out of the third division? Having to take loans out just to survive to keep their overpriced players in the team. Loans that have massive consequences. What do you suggest? Stick Rangers into the top league no questions asked just to go back to the good old ways?? Scottish football was dying well before Rangers went into liquidation, partly because of the way Rangers conducted their finances to try and get ahead of Celtic.

[hibs0666]

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Possibly to ensure that the same club is punished properly and make sure they dont cheat again and have Scottish football as fair as possible. From the punishments that have been handed out to Rangers so far, how many do you think have made them think twice about doing similar things in the future? Just look at the amount of money they spent to get out of the third division? Having to take loans out just to survive to keep their overpriced players in the team. Loans that have massive consequences. What do you suggest? Stick Rangers into the top league no questions asked just to go back to the good old ways?? Scottish football was dying well before Rangers went into liquidation, partly because of the way Rangers conducted their finances to try and get ahead of Celtic.

The club died because of its cheating, and I'm sure that the point has been taken by other clubs.