Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[grunt]

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HMRC and SFA.

Not sure what you mean about it having been addressed by the HMRC. This was the subject of the Big Tax Case which HMRC are currently winning.

[Ozyhibby]

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Are you talking here about the LNS inquiry?

If he is then they have not. A number of them were withheld from LNS and the SFA misdirected LNS on what constituted a registration breach.


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[jacomo]

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Like it or not, the side letter issue has already been addressed and the huns were fined accordingly.

1. They've not paid the fine.
2. LNS was possibly deceived over the nature of the side-letters, denied certain evidence that led his inquiry to make erroneous conclusions.

The more recent 'common sense' judgement in Big a Tax Case is that these side letters formed a part of the players' employment contracts.

Not dealt with, by a very long way.

[Ozyhibby]

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1. They've not paid the fine.
2. LNS was possibly deceived over the nature of the side-letters, denied certain evidence that led his inquiry to make erroneous conclusions.

The more recent 'common sense' judgement in Big a Tax Case is that these side letters formed a part of the players' employment contracts.

Not dealt with, by a very long way.

The point I was trying to make but you have made it so much better.


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[Smartie]

What does the failure of "resolution 10" mean?

[Ozyhibby]

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What does the failure of "resolution 10" mean?

It means they can't issue new shares and the can't convert the soft loans they need to equity.


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[Ozyhibby]

http://thecelticblog.com/2015/12/blo...his-court-date


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[Liberal Hibby]

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It means they can't issue new shares and the can't convert the soft loans they need to equity.

Ouch!

[Jack Hackett]

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Bound to come to Real Madrids' attention as well now that the Scottish sun are on the case about a week after it appeared on here

I note that the article claims that they broke the story 'last month'.....so sometime prior to today then

[hibs0666]

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1. They've not paid the fine.
2. LNS was possibly deceived over the nature of the side-letters, denied certain evidence that led his inquiry to make erroneous conclusions.

The more recent 'common sense' judgement in Big a Tax Case is that these side letters formed a part of the players' employment contracts.

Not dealt with, by a very long way.

1. True
2a. Has LNS acknowledged that he was deceived on the side letter issue?
2b. Has LNS asserted that his previous findings on the side letters are now null and void?

[hibs0666]

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It means they can't issue new shares and the can't convert the soft loans they need to equity.


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I think that's wrong. They can indeed issue new shares but only to existing shareholders based on their existing holdings.

[grunt]

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2a. Has LNS acknowledged that he was deceived on the side letter issue?
2b. Has LNS asserted that his previous findings on the side letters are now null and void?

As far as we know he hasn't commented on the question. neither would he, until he's discussed it with the football authorities. This whole situation is hugely embarrassing for the SPFL and the SFA, and my guess is they don't know what to do. I'd further guess that they are hoping that BDO are successful in obtaining leave to appeal the FTT verdict, because if this happens they can carry on with their heads in the sand for another year. On that topic at least. But there's a load of other issues coming up they will need to address.

[hibs0666]

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As far as we know he hasn't commented on the question. neither would he, until he's discussed it with the football authorities. This whole situation is hugely embarrassing for the SPFL and the SFA, and my guess is they don't know what to do. I'd further guess that they are hoping that BDO are successful in obtaining leave to appeal the FTT verdict, because if this happens they can carry on with their heads in the sand for another year. On that topic at least. But there's a load of other issues coming up they will need to address.

OK, so there is no point at this stage in saying that the side letter issue has not been addressed when it has. As you say it will will not be re-visited unless and until all parties acknowledge that there is a material change in circumstances, and there is nothing to indicate that those parties believe that to be the case.

[jacomo]

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1. True
2a. Has LNS acknowledged that he was deceived on the side letter issue?
2b. Has LNS asserted that his previous findings on the side letters are now null and void?

2a and 2b

I suspect you already know the answers to these questions and are just being a smart****.

What's your agenda?

[southsider]

BDO will only be granted leave to appeal the Big Tax Case if things have changed. Very few are granted each year. Anyway setting aside the legal side of things what Murray did was morally indefensible when our pensioners were freezing to death for lack of heating, when the NHS were short of funds and when our brave troops were being killed or injured through lack of equipment Murray thinks its a good idea to pay players £20,000 £30,000 or £40,000 A WEEK and pay no income tax. He should be hounded out of our country

[hibs0666]

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2a and 2b

I suspect you already know the answers to these questions and are just being a smart****.

What's your agenda?

OK, you don't want to debate your assertions. No problems, we'll park it there. And less of the smartarse ****** OK?

[Jim44]

While they are hardly suicidal, the muppets on FF are having a bad day. They're having to persuade themselves that the Warburton to Fulham rumour is a minor distraction and the failed resolution 10 hasn't set the heather alight either. What with us snapping at their heels and a wee banana skin in the form of Dumbarton tonight, all is far from hunky dory in Hunland.

[Smartie]

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While they are hardly suicidal, the muppets on FF are having a bad day. They're having to persuade themselves that the Warburton to Fulham rumour is a minor distraction and the failed resolution 10 hasn't set the heather alight either. What with us snapping at their heels and a wee banana skin in the form of Dumbarton tonight, all is far from hunky dory in Hunland.

I fully expect them to whip Dumbarton tonight tbh and that will settle them all down a fair bit.

It would have been nice if it had been a trip to Falkirk or the likes tonight - that would really have had them squeaking.

[grunt]

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OK, so there is no point at this stage in saying that the side letter issue has not been addressed when it has. As you say it will will not be re-visited unless and until all parties acknowledge that there is a material change in circumstances, and there is nothing to indicate that those parties believe that to be the case.

Well the point of a discussion forum is to discuss things, and that's what we're doing. So personally I think there is a point in saying that the side letter issue has not been addressed, because that's my view.

If we left everything to the authorities for them to decide what to do, then Rangers would have gone straight into the premier league when they were formed, and we wouldn't be having this discussion. So I think debating the justice of the situation, the sporting integrity if you will, is important so that those "in charge" of our game know how we all feel.

[jacomo]

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OK, you don't want to debate your assertions. No problems, we'll park it there. And less of the smartarse ****** OK?

I'll debate all day.

How about you do the same, instead of trying to score points?

[Jim44]

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I fully expect them to whip Dumbarton tonight tbh and that will settle them all down a fair bit.

It would have been nice if it had been a trip to Falkirk or the likes tonight - that would really have had them squeaking.

I think you're probably correct about tonight, but you never know, the horrendous conditions could be a great leveller.

[JeMeSouviens]

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I think you're probably correct about tonight, but you never know, the horrendous conditions could be a great leveller.

Hopefully they had a nice heavy pitch last Saturday, again tonight and are nicely softened up to lose points at Raith on Saturday coming.

[JeMeSouviens]

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OK, so there is no point at this stage in saying that the side letter issue has not been addressed when it has. As you say it will will not be re-visited unless and until all parties acknowledge that there is a material change in circumstances, and there is nothing to indicate that those parties believe that to be the case.

I don't really understand the Hun apologist line (except for from Huns obv). How doesn't it help Hibs to have Huns in turmoil?

[GreenLake]

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I note that the article claims that they broke the story 'last month'.....so sometime prior to today then

I stopped reading that rag in the last millennium.

[CropleyWasGod]

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I think that's wrong. They can indeed issue new shares but only to existing shareholders based on their existing holdings.

The resolution says... "the allotment of equity securities in connection with or pursuant to an offer of, or invitation to holders of equity securities and other persons entitled to participate in proportion (as nearly as practicable) to their then holdings of equity securities".

I read that as....Had it passed, then they would have been entitled to issue shares to existing shareholders based on their existing shareholdings (eg the soft lenders). However, it failed.

Lawyers on here to translate, please?

[Bostonhibby]

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I note that the article claims that they broke the story 'last month'.....so sometime prior to today then

Journalistic license? or maybe stayed up late especially to launch this "scoop"

[Glesgahibby]

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;4514550]Another possibility is that the creditors committee.....I think it's called....have instructed BDO to appeal. The smaller creditors, in whose interests the appeal is, may outvote HMRC on that committee.

If that's the case, I think BDO's hands are tied.

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to be honest,if it goes to the Supreme Court and HMRC win again!
then it makes easier to argue for "title/trophy stripping

[hibs0666]

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I don't really understand the Hun apologist line (except for from Huns obv). How doesn't it help Hibs to have Huns in turmoil?

It's hardly a hun apologist line to state that LNS dealt with the side letter issue - that is just a statement of fact and the hun is in turmoil irrespective of the issue of side letters.

At what point do we recognise that the very future of Scottish football as a full-time professional sport is at serious risk, and that is a far far greater issue than deleting a few hun references here and there?

[hibs0666]

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The resolution says... "the allotment of equity securities in connection with or pursuant to an offer of, or invitation to holders of equity securities and other persons entitled to participate in proportion (as nearly as practicable) to their then holdings of equity securities".

I read that as....Had it passed, then they would have been entitled to issue shares to existing shareholders based on their existing shareholdings (eg the soft lenders). However, it failed.

Lawyers on here to translate, please?

I don't think we can afford that :)

[Bostonhibby]

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Warby is 13/8 favourite, and you can get 6/1 the field.

After the Allan saga, surely the huns wouldn't stand in the way of a guy trying to better himself?

Remember Fulham winning a major trophy, the FA cup around 1975, and they have consistently appeared at a higher league level than the rangers so if you listen to what they all had to say about natural progression they should be delighted the warbler is getting a chance at a higher level, and much nearer to London where general bull****ting goes a long way.............