Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[BroxburnHibee]

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Quite an audacious solution for Scottish Football suggested by The Rangers. Let's forget it all with no questions asked.


http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/...b-statement-2/


THE SPFL Board has stated they held a conference call to be given a factual update on the Court of Session EBT ruling and so it would be remiss of the Rangers Board not to state the Club’s view.

The first thing to be said is that Rangers has made it clear it wishes to reach out and work with all clubs to help revitalise Scottish football, which has also suffered in recent years. There is much to be done and Rangers wants to be part of the way forward.

Our game has to become more attractive to potential sponsors and partners if the finance levels required are to be generated but this can only be done if we present a coherent and united strategy. Therefore, a line must be drawn now if we are all to prosper.

It is our irrevocable belief that this Club’s history, including its many successes, is beyond debate. Rangers cannot countenance or accept any talk, attempts or actions designed to undermine what this Club has achieved throughout its long history.

So, as far as this Club is concerned there is no need for further SPFL consideration of court judgements or appeals. They should be saying it is time for everyone to move on and work together for the greater good of the game. Scottish football has suffered enough.

....til next time.

Putting aside the audacity of that statement it raises an important point

What would it take for the rest of Scottish football to draw a line in the sand and move on?

The continuous poison this is creating certainly makes it difficult for our game to move on and sell itself better.

Personally I'd like to see a negotiation on it - there's no way Rangers will agree to stripping of titles so what could they be willing to offer.

[Ozyhibby]

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I would love to know who writes and/or sanctions these statements. If ever I needed a PR firm Level 5 would be at the bottom of the list.

Level 5 are out, too expensive. Chris Graham doing their PR now.


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[Treadstone]

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Level 5 are out, too expensive. Chris Graham doing their PR now.

Not according to Grant Russell from STV. Jabba told assembled press no EBT questions before magic hats presser last week. Another wrong one for Phil.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

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Quite an audacious solution for Scottish Football suggested by The Rangers. Let's forget it all with no questions asked.


http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/...b-statement-2/

THE SPFL Board has stated they held a conference call to be given a factual update on the Court of Session EBT ruling and so it would be remiss of the Rangers Board not to state the Club’s view.

The first thing to be said is that Rangers has made it clear it wishes to reach out and work with all clubs to help revitalise Scottish football, which has also suffered in recent years. There is much to be done and Rangers wants to be part of the way forward.

Our game has to become more attractive to potential sponsors and partners if the finance levels required are to be generated but this can only be done if we present a coherent and united strategy. Therefore, a line must be drawn now if we are all to prosper.

It is our irrevocable belief that this Club’s history, including its many successes, is beyond debate. Rangers cannot countenance or accept any talk, attempts or actions designed to undermine what this Club has achieved throughout its long history.

So, as far as this Club is concerned there is no need for further SPFL consideration of court judgements or appeals. They should be saying it is time for everyone to move on and work together for the greater good of the game. Scottish football has suffered enough.

....til next time.

Can I use the term "reach out"?

Use of the term is dependent on one question:

Are you a member of The Four Tops?
If Yes then you can use the term "reach out"
If No then unfortunately you cannot use the term "reach out" .

[MyJo]

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Putting aside the audacity of that statement it raises an important point

What would it take for the rest of Scottish football to draw a line in the sand and move on?

The continuous poison this is creating certainly makes it difficult for our game to move on and sell itself better.

Personally I'd like to see a negotiation on it - there's no way Rangers will agree to stripping of titles so what could they be willing to offer.

option a - "Rangers folded and we are a new club founded in 2012 using the assets of the club formerly known as Glasgow Rangers" everyone moves on.

option b - "We are Glasgow Rangers F.C, we cheated and gained a sporting advantage through the use of a tax avoidance scheme" Rangers stripped of titles won while using EBT's and an effort made to repay money owed to HMRC.

If they did either of these things i think the majority of scottish football fans would be satisfied and move on, but its rangers and thier arrogance and sense of entitlement means they expect to walk away from all liability to the concequences of cheating and living beyond thier means (screwing creditors and taxpayers in the process) while still retaining the history of a now-defunct football club and the achievements they gained through this systematic and deliberate cheating.

[CropleyWasGod]

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option a - "Rangers folded and we are a new club founded in 2012 using the assets of the club formerly known as Glasgow Rangers" everyone moves on.

option b - "We are Glasgow Rangers F.C, we cheated and gained a sporting advantage through the use of a tax avoidance scheme" Rangers stripped of titles won while using EBT's and an effort made to repay money owed to HMRC.

If they did either of these things i think the majority of scottish football fans would be satisfied and move on, but its rangers and thier arrogance and sense of entitlement means they expect to walk away from all liability to the concequences of cheating and living beyond thier means (screwing creditors and taxpayers in the process) while still retaining the history of a now-defunct football club and the achievements they gained through this systematic and deliberate cheating.

That would be illegal, as it gives preference to HMRC over all the other creditors. And RFC don't do illegal things.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Not according to Grant Russell from STV. Jabba told assembled press no EBT questions before magic hats presser last week. Another wrong one for Phil.

Yeah, I saw that. Their last couple of statements have been real amateur hour efforts though. Maybe they've scaled back the fat slug's involvement rather than got rid altogether?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Can I use the term "reach out"?

Use of the term is dependent on one question:

Are you a member of The Four Tops?
If Yes then you can use the term "reach out"
If No then unfortunately you cannot use the term "reach out" .

And only the Four Tops can use the term...

Just walk away.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Quite an audacious solution for Scottish Football suggested by The Rangers. Let's forget it all with no questions asked.

Just read it to the end ...

Scottish football has suffered enough.

Genuine LOLZ moment there, priceless!

[CropleyWasGod]

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Putting aside the audacity of that statement it raises an important point

What would it take for the rest of Scottish football to draw a line in the sand and move on?

The continuous poison this is creating certainly makes it difficult for our game to move on and sell itself better.

Personally I'd like to see a negotiation on it - there's no way Rangers will agree to stripping of titles so what could they be willing to offer.

There is merit in the argument that says RFC (old/new/whatever) have served their time. Just as many on here would have wished on Hearts, they had to start again at the bottom and play their way up. Whether they have done that in the "correct" manner, and learned the financial lessons of the past, has still to be played out.

There is also an argument that says that the lower end of Scottish football has benefited financially from the presence of the hordes, although whether the local police and communities of Peterhead, Annan et al would agree is another matter.

For me, and probably for many others, punishment is one thing, but contrition is another. Today's statement doesn't seem to indicate much of that; neither does their financial situation.

[Baldy Foghorn]

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Quite an audacious solution for Scottish Football suggested by The Rangers. Let's forget it all with no questions asked.


http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/...b-statement-2/


THE SPFL Board has stated they held a conference call to be given a factual update on the Court of Session EBT ruling and so it would be remiss of the Rangers Board not to state the Club’s view.

The first thing to be said is that Rangers has made it clear it wishes to reach out and work with all clubs to help revitalise Scottish football, which has also suffered in recent years. There is much to be done and Rangers wants to be part of the way forward.

Our game has to become more attractive to potential sponsors and partners if the finance levels required are to be generated but this can only be done if we present a coherent and united strategy. Therefore, a line must be drawn now if we are all to prosper.

It is our irrevocable belief that this Club’s history, including its many successes, is beyond debate. Rangers cannot countenance or accept any talk, attempts or actions designed to undermine what this Club has achieved throughout its long history.

So, as far as this Club is concerned there is no need for further SPFL consideration of court judgements or appeals. They should be saying it is time for everyone to move on and work together for the greater good of the game. Scottish football has suffered enough.

....til next time.

No shame, no remorse......Why don't you just admit you are a new Co, or Old Co but cheated the system, then shut the heck up......Arrogant bigots....

[GlesgaeHibby]

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Nice balanced views on Sportscene from Steven Thompson and Stuart McCall. They both say rangers didn't cheat because the trophies were won on the park!? What does that even mean? Maybe they should take their heads out their backsides and realise the players on the park could only be afforded through EBTs.

They were quoting ex Celtic people like Martin O'Neill with the trophies were won on the park and apparently many across football agree. No mention of the majority of fans, players etc who think it was as clear a case of cheating as you can get.

Unfortunately I feel this is the type of bluff that the football authorities will hide behind and try to make out that their is no appetite for justice or that some who used to be at Celtic says it's ok so it must be.

Completely embarassing, and yet totally expected.

The argument that the trophies were won on the park is laughable. By the same logic, Lance Armstrong won his trophies on his bike so they should still stand?

BBC at their best again though refusing to challenge it. Rangers won countless trophies by cheating. Yes they had the better team on the park, but the team was only assembled by cheating therefore the results are illegitimate.

[EdinMike]

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No shame, no remorse......Why don't you just admit you are a new Co, or Old Co but cheated the system, then shut the heck up......Arrogant bigots....

Like I said to someone the other day, it's a case of "You can't have your cake and eat it"

What are you !? Are you a new club with 2 division titles to your name or are and old club that accepts the debt it has to repay ?! If you are new, well those stars over your badge have to go.

[brog]

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Not according to Grant Russell from STV. Jabba told assembled press no EBT questions before magic hats presser last week. Another wrong one for Phil.

John James recently said that due to the embarrassing recent statements that Level 5 were back in. That went well then!

[Jim44]

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Nice balanced views on Sportscene from Steven Thompson and Stuart McCall. They both say rangers didn't cheat because the trophies were won on the park!? What does that even mean? Maybe they should take their heads out their backsides and realise the players on the park could only be afforded through EBTs.

They were quoting ex Celtic people like Martin O'Neill with the trophies were won on the park and apparently many across football agree. No mention of the majority of fans, players etc who think it was as clear a case of cheating as you can get.

Unfortunately I feel this is the type of bluff that the football authorities will hide behind and try to make out that their is no appetite for justice or that some who used to be at Celtic says it's ok so it must be.

Thompson and McCall are Huns, so you wouldn't expect anything else from them. The likes of Martin O'Neill and other apologists will have some vested interest in keeping the Old Firm incest alive.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Thompson and McCall are Huns, so you wouldn't expect anything else from them. The likes of Martin O'Neill and other apologists will have some vested interest in keeping the Old Firm incest alive.

Even better than that, Thompson is a Hun who had an EBT and stands to lose a "winner's" medal from his 3 domestic honours with the old Huns. Pretty impartial viewpoint there ...

[Ozyhibby]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/the-ibrox-code/


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[Baldy Foghorn]

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Like I said to someone the other day, it's a case of "You can't have your cake and eat it"

What are you !? Are you a new club with 2 division titles to your name or are and old club that accepts the debt it has to repay ?! If you are new, well those stars over your badge have to go.

Exactly, time for them to decide who they really are?

[Jack]

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There is merit in the argument that says RFC (old/new/whatever) have served their time. Just as many on here would have wished on Hearts, they had to start again at the bottom and play their way up. Whether they have done that in the "correct" manner, and learned the financial lessons of the past, has still to be played out.

There is also an argument that says that the lower end of Scottish football has benefited financially from the presence of the hordes, although whether the local police and communities of Peterhead, Annan et al would agree is another matter.

For me, and probably for many others, punishment is one thing, but contrition is another. Today's statement doesn't seem to indicate much of that; neither does their financial situation.

But they haven’t served their time on the new charges.

If a murderer is in jail and other murders come to light he's back in court!

[chinaman]

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wow... The audacity to come out with a statement like that, i'de hammer them twice as hard now...

i demand the death penalty
shameless hun filth

[CropleyWasGod]

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But they haven’t served their time on the new charges.

If a murderer is in jail and other murders come to light he's back in court!

The charges aren't new, though. This case has been around since before admin. It's only the fact that they continue to deny the charges, that keeps the case going.

I'm not disagreeing, BTW, I'm just exploring what kind of compromise, if any, might be reached.

[PatHead]

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He actually, IMO, makes many good points but unfortunately much of it is undone by the guff in bold below. Maxing out the overdraft & credit card doesn't really account for stiffing creditors to the tune of £30m, including more than £2million to UK taxpayers. Strange also there's no mention of contracts & payments being funneled through Lithuania to allow Yams to avoid tax & buy players they could not otherwise afford! Now why does that sound familiar & is it sheer coincidence that Campbell (Teflon) Ogilvie was heavily involved with both Yams & Sevco at the time both clubs were flouting the rules & leaving a trail of debts?

Hearts, like many others, did (on a larger scale admittedly - and they shouldn't have) maxed out both overdraft and credit card.

They paid for it. They went into administration, took the massive points deduction that went with it, accepted their culpability and managed to appeal to the good grace of their creditors to negotiate a CVA that allowed them to get something back.

Far from ideal, and you would be hard-pressed to find a Hearts fan who is proud of what happened.

Every Hearts supporter I know is proud of their Scottish Cup cheating win so it isn't that hard to find.

[jacomo]

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There is merit in the argument that says RFC (old/new/whatever) have served their time. Just as many on here would have wished on Hearts, they had to start again at the bottom and play their way up. Whether they have done that in the "correct" manner, and learned the financial lessons of the past, has still to be played out.

There is also an argument that says that the lower end of Scottish football has benefited financially from the presence of the hordes, although whether the local police and communities of Peterhead, Annan et al would agree is another matter.

For me, and probably for many others, punishment is one thing, but contrition is another. Today's statement doesn't seem to indicate much of that; neither does their financial situation.

They haven't been serving their time. They weren't 'relegated' or 'demoted' as a punishment for anything.

They folded, they went bust, and caused an almighty crisis for Scottish football. They were then given help to get back on their feat by immediate re admission to the League.

This issue is not about Rangers becoming bankrupt. It's about cheating.

[jacomo]

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[/I]
Every Hearts supporter I know is proud of their Scottish Cup cheating win so it isn't that hard to find.

They couldn't give a toss. Nae shame.

[ancient hibee]

Nothing will happen.

When they set up the EBTs they like lots of companies thought they were OK withe Revenue-the Revenue eventually didn't think so and for the time being have won their case.

As far as the side letters are concerned Rangers have been fined but have not paid the fine.The independent commission ridiculously decided that Rangers obtained no advantage on the playing field from their actions.That will not be revisited.

[Kato]

Don't think this has been heard before - the evidence of The Mysterious "Mr Black".

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thoms...lverware/10066

[CropleyWasGod]

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Don't think this has been heard before - the evidence of The Mysterious "Mr Black".

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thoms...lverware/10066

Sitting on the fence as usual

One little moan, though....."the former Rangers owners now face at last paying the British state the tax and NI they dodged for all those years."

No they won't.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Don't think this has been heard before - the evidence of The Mysterious "Mr Black".

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thoms...lverware/10066

I'm sure it'll be mentioned a few hundred or so pages ago.

The FTT findings were anonymised (when published, they didn't give their evidence wearing paper bags), colours for the management (Murray was Black, McLeish - Violet, Martin Bain, Scarlet, etc) and the players were towns (Barry Ferguson - Ipswich is the only one I remember for some reason).

[JeMeSouviens]

Btw, guess who said ... ?

Clearly, that is not for Charles Green to do. But I am happy to say that I really believe we should be saying sorry and I think there is something to be sorry about.
And as a former director when these things were going on, I am minded to do so.
With regard to EBTs, I was on the board so I have to take some responsibility.
And I follow the logic of the argument that if we lose the tax case then we probably gained some competitive advantage.
I believe that, on behalf of myself and most of the board members who were with me and probably agree with me, that we should apologise for that.

[Onceinawhile]

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Btw, guess who said ... ?

What a find. Looking forward to the reparations!