Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[majorhibs]

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Maybe this is a daft question but it's been bugging me watching some of these clips of "angry bears" heckling Green as he left court…….

Surely rather than being furious at these guys they should be eternally grateful? The likelihood is that these chaps will be the fall guys in the whole affair and will do some serious time. Now, I know their motivation will have been purely financial and they will hardly have been seeking glory and the approval of "the hordes".

But the bottom line is - had Green and his friends not done what they'd done then there would be no club for them to support now. Putting to one side all bickering about same club/different club etc there is a Rangers of sorts wearing blue and white and playing at Ibrox with stars on their strips etc. Without Green, Whyte and all their grubby associates then that might not have been the case?

Rangers (imo) got into the mess they did because of a warped sense of entitlement, a sense of immunity to the financial realities that affect all other football clubs and David Murray's grotesque mismanagement of the club.

Green, Whyte et al are opportunistic parasites who always appear when clubs are in distress and will ultimately end up being the fall guys in the whole affair. But had they not done what they did, when they did then there might not be a "The Rangers" to speak of.

No?

You lived through the huns in the 70s? Every, single, despicable, foul part of anything "hun" & they gloried in that term about themselves then, all part of the no one likes us drivel, the huns in the 70s were so low there really is no coming back for behaviour like that. Lowest.

[cabbageandribs1875]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-west-34138604


A fourth man has appeared in court over the alleged fraudulent acquisition of Rangers' assets in 2012.
Paul Clark, 51, was charged with conspiracy and involvement in serious organised crime. He made no plea or declaration and was released on bail.

[jacomo]

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Greeno didn't look a well man on the telly.

Looks like life is taking a turn for the worse. Life on the inside will be no bed of roses.

This is white collar crime.

If he's convicted, he'll be in an open prison, with a large audience of lags for his stories. He'll be fine.

It's Craig Whyte who looks to me like he can't quite understand what has happened. It was all looking so promising.

[AndyM_1875]

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If that's the case, I wonder if there's any chance of him sorting out the mess over his company's pension-scheme ?. From what I've googled, there doesn't seem to be any update on it since May last year - in any other country, the media would be on this like a shot !. An absolutely, disgusting way to treat ex-employees who paid THEIR taxes and didn't take any LOANS from the company and not pay them back !!! Remember, we're talking about a man 'Knighted for service to business' etc, etc ...................................

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotlan...ings-1-3407692

I don't know about the pension funds but the way I was told it by a lawyer friend was that SDM actually transferred most if not all of the staff at his loss making debt ridden businesses into other parts of his business which were long term going concerns or out into new jobs elsewhere. Whilst mad Phil and his mouth breathing followers got somewhat over exited about MIH being liquidated thinking this was the end for David Murray they could not have been more wrong.

What SDM actually did was a fairly cynical dumping of what actually were debt ridden shells after he's scooped out all the good stuff (staff/transfers of existing contracts).
He was still a director and in one case CEO of a number of extremely profitable companies loosely gathered under the Murray Group's wing. He may no longer be the Teflon, golden boy of the Scottish business community but he's still held in reasonably high regard by many people in the business community and he has survived in to the post 2008 world where banks will no longer support businesses running long term on debt finance.

[liamh2202]

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I don't know about the pension funds but the way I was told it by a lawyer friend was that SDM actually transferred most if not all of the staff at his loss making debt ridden businesses into other parts of his business which were long term going concerns or out into new jobs elsewhere. Whilst mad Phil and his mouth breathing followers got somewhat over exited about MIH being liquidated thinking this was the end for David Murray they could not have been more wrong.

What SDM actually did was a fairly cynical dumping of what actually were debt ridden shells after he's scooped out all the good stuff (staff/transfers of existing contracts).
He was still a director and in one case CEO of a number of extremely profitable companies loosely gathered under the Murray Group's wing. He may no longer be the Teflon, golden boy of the Scottish business community but he's still held in reasonably high regard by many people in the business community and he has survived in to the post 2008 world where banks will no longer support businesses running long term on debt finance.

I'm not a business guru but did stf not do something similar with our debts when he took over?

[Kato]

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I'm not a business guru but did stf not do something similar with our debts when he took over?

Yes. Then he paid the football club's debt off when, legally, he wasn't obliged to.

[liamh2202]

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Yes. Then he paid the football club's debt off when, legally, he wasn't obliged to.

Thanks kato. I was very young at the time but recalled it being mentioned on the team that wouldn't die.

[AndyM_1875]

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I'm not a business guru but did stf not do something similar with our debts when he took over?

Sir Tom is much more conservative (small c) than Murray ever was. STF isn't arrogant or brash although he is just as driven and he's not a man to cross.

CWG can correct me here but I'd very much doubt that Sir Tom would take the risks David Murray did building businesses and then running them on debt the way Murray did. He's much more old school, checks the books etc.

[Bostonhibby]

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Yes. Then he paid the football club's debt off when, legally, he wasn't obliged to.

Exactly the opposite of what the Yams and the now defunct Glasgow Rangers new front men did.

Lest they forget.

[Kojock]

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Greeno didn't look a well man on the telly.

Looks like life is taking a turn for the worse. Life on the inside will be no bed of roses.

Innocent until proven guilty. If it goes to trial it will be a long drawn out complicated affair with a lot of twists and turns. Would hate to be sitting on that jury.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Innocent until proven guilty. If it goes to trial it will be a long drawn out complicated affair with a lot of twists and turns. Would hate to be sitting on that jury.

Indeed.

Conspiracy is a notoriously difficult crime to prove. As is fraud.

I can't see it coming to Court until next summer. There haven't even been any pleas entered yet.

According to Paul Cavanagh, Whyte's lawyer:-

“I think this is going to be one of the biggest cases we have ever seen, certainly in the last 30 years or so.

“In terms of the amount of material and the depth of that material, it could be bigger than Lockerbie, it obviously isn’t as important as Lockerbie, but it is huge in terms of the amount of information.

“I now have 100,000 sheets of paper sitting in the office containing all the information that has been disclosed by the Crown.

“There is an enormous amount of information that has been gathered in terms of witness statements and other data.

[Kato]

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Indeed.

Conspiracy is a notoriously difficult crime to prove.

One method of proof is if someone involved had recorded all their phone calls with the other parties concerned and those recordings were being made available.

[silverhibee]

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Indeed.

Conspiracy is a notoriously difficult crime to prove. As is fraud.

I can't see it coming to Court until next summer. There haven't even been any pleas entered yet.

According to Paul Cavanagh, Whyte's lawyer:-

“I think this is going to be one of the biggest cases we have ever seen, certainly in the last 30 years or so.

“In terms of the amount of material and the depth of that material, it could be bigger than Lockerbie, it obviously isn’t as important as Lockerbie, but it is huge in terms of the amount of information.

“I now have 100,000 sheets of paper sitting in the office containing all the information that has been disclosed by the Crown.

“There is an enormous amount of information that has been gathered in terms of witness statements and other data.

I'm no CDL but don't they have to appear next week to enter the plea as the charges will be on a petition charge sheet.


Just a hunch, but my money is on Not Guilty plea being entered by the four of them.

The big dilemma for the prosecution will be where the trial takes place, i really can't see it taking place at Glasgow High Court.

[Kojock]

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Indeed.

Conspiracy is a notoriously difficult crime to prove. As is fraud.

I can't see it coming to Court until next summer. There haven't even been any pleas entered yet.

According to Paul Cavanagh, Whyte's lawyer:-

“I think this is going to be one of the biggest cases we have ever seen, certainly in the last 30 years or so.

“In terms of the amount of material and the depth of that material, it could be bigger than Lockerbie, it obviously isn’t as important as Lockerbie, but it is huge in terms of the amount of information.

“I now have 100,000 sheets of paper sitting in the office containing all the information that has been disclosed by the Crown.

“There is an enormous amount of information that has been gathered in terms of witness statements and other data.

Eye watering !!! Finding an impartial jury will also prove problematic.

[Billy Whizz]

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Eye watering !!! Finding an impartial jury will also prove problematic.

I wonder if a question will be, who do they support

[greenginger]

Apart from the conspiracy , fraud etc charges facing the 3 who were in court yesterday , Charles Green faces an additional charge under Section 190 of the Companies Act.


http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/190

That section covers company directors acquiring " substantial non-cash company property without express approval of company members "

Surely he can't have nicked the Big Hoose !

[CropleyWasGod]

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Apart from the conspiracy , fraud etc charges facing the 3 who were in court yesterday , Charles Green faces an additional charge under Section 190 of the Companies Act.


http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/190

That section covers company directors acquiring " substantial non-cash company property without express approval of company members "

Surely he can't have nicked the Big Hoose !

Section 191 :-

An asset is a substantial asset in relation to a company if its value—

(a)exceeds 10% of the company's asset value and is more than £5,000, or

(b)exceeds £100,000.

Can't be too many of them.

Maybe he kidnapped Lee McCulloch.

Edit.... aye, right enough.

[silverhibee]

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I wonder if a question will be, who do they support

Wonder if any of the four will go with Donald Findlay QC for the trial.

[Prof. Shaggy]

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Eye watering !!! Finding an impartial jury will also prove problematic.

Where does one volunteer?

[IanM]

off topic but rangers related

@RaithRovers_FC: The club has asked the Compliance Officer to look into possible rule breach by Rangers FC and one of its players. See http://t.co/jN8dd8juY2

Wish I knew how to hyperlink!

[Billy Whizz]

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off topic but rangers related

@RaithRovers_FC: The club has asked the Compliance Officer to look into possible rule breach by Rangers FC and one of its players. See http://t.co/jN8dd8juY2

Wish I knew how to hyperlink!

Rangers seem to make their own rules up

http://www.raithrovers.net/21283/com...ional-duty.htm

[grunt]

Ahead of Saturday’s Ladbrokes Championship match versus Rangers at Ibrox, Raith Rovers FC has today asked the Scottish FA’s Compliance Officer to consider whether he agrees that Rangers FC, through David Weir, have breached SFA Articles and Rules by requesting and securing the early release of its player Ryan Hardie from international duty with Scotland Under 19s in Bulgaria, for the sole reason that he is then available to play against Raith Rovers.

Raith Rovers FC also has an important player in the same Under 19 squad, 1st team regular Craig Wighton, and Craig remains in Bulgaria and available for selection for Friday evening’s national representative match. He will fly home with the rest of the squad on Saturday afternoon. We are delighted that Craig is receiving international recognition, and whilst we are without his services for the crucial match with Rangers, our loss is Scotland’s gain.

Naturally we are concerned that if there is any breach of Article 82.1 and Rules 56 & 57, this would – in these circumstances – result in an unfairness in terms of players available for selection for Saturday’s match, which is to our disadvantage.

[JimBHibees]

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Ahead of Saturday’s Ladbrokes Championship match versus Rangers at Ibrox, Raith Rovers FC has today asked the Scottish FA’s Compliance Officer to consider whether he agrees that Rangers FC, through David Weir, have breached SFA Articles and Rules by requesting and securing the early release of its player Ryan Hardie from international duty with Scotland Under 19s in Bulgaria, for the sole reason that he is then available to play against Raith Rovers.

Raith Rovers FC also has an important player in the same Under 19 squad, 1st team regular Craig Wighton, and Craig remains in Bulgaria and available for selection for Friday evening’s national representative match. He will fly home with the rest of the squad on Saturday afternoon. We are delighted that Craig is receiving international recognition, and whilst we are without his services for the crucial match with Rangers, our loss is Scotland’s gain.

Naturally we are concerned that if there is any breach of Article 82.1 and Rules 56 & 57, this would – in these circumstances – result in an unfairness in terms of players available for selection for Saturday’s match, which is to our disadvantage.

That is quite simply incredible. How have the under 19s and SFA allowed this to happen. Absolute shambles. You would have thought given the respective squads Raith could have done with their player back.

[Billy Whizz]

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That is quite simply incredible. How have the under 19s and SFA allowed this to happen. Absolute shambles. You would have thought given the respective squads Raith could have done with their player back.

All fixtures in the top 2 leagues should be cancelled for the international break

[Mr White]

Setting aside how much I despise sevco and the team that preceded them, ryan hardie is unlikely to play this weekend having not made a league appearance this season (according to wiki). Raith would be better requesting their player be released than complaining about rangers in this instance. Imo of course, tin hat at the ready

[cabbageandribs1875]

does anyone know if Raith have been training this week with just 10 players for the visit to bigotbrox , or is it only hertz that do that

[JimBHibees]

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Setting aside how much I despise sevco and the team that preceded them, ryan hardie is unlikely to play this weekend having not made a league appearance this season (according to wiki). Raith would be better requesting their player be released than complaining about rangers in this instance. Imo of course, tin hat at the ready

More the principal of it rather than how likely the player is to play.

[Mr White]

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More the principal of it rather than how likely the player is to play.

I agree to an extent but I feel there's an element of them playing the martyr here.

[JimBHibees]

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I agree to an extent but I feel there's an element of them playing the martyr here.

Disagree they probably just think one rule for one. Good that they have spoken out IMO.

[Twiglet]

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Setting aside how much I despise sevco and the team that preceded them, ryan hardie is unlikely to play this weekend having not made a league appearance this season (according to wiki). Raith would be better requesting their player be released than complaining about rangers in this instance. Imo of course, tin hat at the ready

It's about breaking the rules. There's no reason for calling him back (they don't say about him being injured or anything) so why has he? Maybe they plan to use him this weekend. They've already said they'll stop players going on international duty