Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[CropleyWasGod]

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Ashley holds security over everything except Ibrox. He can force admin 2 and still be in total control at the end of the process.

There are 2 likely outcomes from administration.

1. there is an accepted CVA (in which MASH have no vote), out of which a new owner takes control. MASH are paid off to the extent of their securities, and the securities lapse.

2. that CVA isn't accepted, and liquidation follows.

Unless MASH, or someone related, is that new owner, I can't see how Ashley would still be "in total control".

[magpie1892]

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Would those who think they are going to be better and stronger please say where sevco and the glib and shameless liar are going to get the money from to achieve this?

Not getting promotion shot a bolt through what masqueraded as a business plan the Lying King had, if those nameless backers ever existed.

They're in hock to the previous management teams; there's still players on their books milking them of 10s of thousands a week between them; ibrox is falling down. And then there's the Ashley with more aces up his sleeve than there are cards in a deck.

They've no 'normal' income from any of the 'normal' channels a football club could expect from catering to advertising to merchandising (this could actually cost them), and virtually every other avenue.

The half support that backed their club last season look like boycotting this season!

Their backers, led by the fraudster, have shelled out pennies to pervious shareholders and none of the rest has been given, just loaned to the club to keep it afloat, it's gone now. None of it would bolster the playing staff.

None of this is a secret. So where do you guys think they are going to get the money from?

They have basically been struck off the stock market for being untrustworthy. No bank is going to give them a penny credit, none of their Championship backers have the cash to throw around and the others have fled, as I said previously, if they ever existed. The South African judge, at the same time as the glib and shameless, said nothing the Lying King said should be taken at face value unless backed up with documentary evidence.

The SPFL should be demanding a public statement guaranteeing that they can see out the season and privately documentary evidence to support that statement.

The MSM appear to be ignoring the fact that they haven't got any money and, added to that, Ashley's ire is up (I'm still experiencing this as a NUFC supporter) and he's attacking Rangers on three fronts.

I have no idea why it is being ignored that RFC are still paying directorial salaries to Llambias and the other Ashley placeman who got booted off the board.

They have no money. They are skint. They are also running at a huge loss.

I'm confident Hibs will finish above them next season.

[Ozyhibby]

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There are 2 likely outcomes from administration.

1. there is an accepted CVA (in which MASH have no vote), out of which a new owner takes control. MASH are paid off to the extent of their securities, and the securities lapse.

2. that CVA isn't accepted, and liquidation follows.

Unless MASH, or someone related, is that new owner, I can't see how Ashley would still be "in total control".

Aren't Mash most likely to be able to offer the most to an administrator for a CVA?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Aren't Mash most likely to be able to offer the most to an administrator for a CVA?

Without a crystal ball, that can't be answered. There may be others out there who would offer more.

And, of course, it begs the question.... why would they want to own the club?

[Smartie]

They are still a massive unknown.

They might get their act together but I don't think that the signs (at this stage) are good.

As I see it, they are where we were at this time last season. They may have just made a very smart appointment as a manager but they don't have anything close to a team. They might get a good one together, they might not.

What we have is the bones of a very handy team that has just needed a bit of fleshing out - that process has already started. A couple more additions and a full pre-season and we'll be fine.

Our team started the season badly - the start of the season came around just too soon for them and it may be the same for The Rangers. We got better as the season went on though and in the end just fell a bit short (but still managed to finish ahead of The Rangers).

Rangers were a big club so it's natural that people will have an eye on what they do. But what we do this season is down to us. Hearts did well last season by taking control of their own game. We need to do the same.

Where we went wrong last season was that we weren't good enough at breaking down packed defences of lesser teams, especially at home. We need to get better at this and get as near a perfect record at home and against the teams other than The Rangers as possible.

Then it's down to 4 games against them. There was nothing last season in our games against both The Rangers and Hearts to suggest that we have anything to fear in these games, especially considering that I think we are going to improve further before the season starts.

[GreenOnions]

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They are still a massive unknown.

They might get their act together but I don't think that the signs (at this stage) are good.

As I see it, they are where we were at this time last season. They may have just made a very smart appointment as a manager but they don't have anything close to a team. They might get a good one together, they might not.

What we have is the bones of a very handy team that has just needed a bit of fleshing out - that process has already started. A couple more additions and a full pre-season and we'll be fine.

Our team started the season badly - the start of the season came around just too soon for them and it may be the same for The Rangers. We got better as the season went on though and in the end just fell a bit short (but still managed to finish ahead of The Rangers).

Rangers were a big club so it's natural that people will have an eye on what they do. But what we do this season is down to us. Hearts did well last season by taking control of their own game. We need to do the same.

Where we went wrong last season was that we weren't good enough at breaking down packed defences of lesser teams, especially at home. We need to get better at this and get as near a perfect record at home and against the teams other than The Rangers as possible.

Then it's down to 4 games against them. There was nothing last season in our games against both The Rangers and Hearts to suggest that we have anything to fear in these games, especially considering that I think we are going to improve further before the season starts.

I agree with most of this. However, in reality, I think whether we win the league or not will be about whether we can consistently win all our other games against teams not called "The Rangers".

Hearts' record against them and us last season was inconclusive but they racked up win after win against all other teams.

There will be little point in doing well against the Glasgow team and then dropping points against others. I suppose that highlights the importance of the point you make about being able to break down packed defences. We must find a way of doing that week after week after week just like our knuckle-dragging neighbours last season.

[Phil MaGlass]

The Rangers will go into administration, take the points penalty and be promoted through league reconstruction, start new season with 15pts deduction and avoid relegation, everything will be hunky dory.

[BSEJVT]

Its all if's, but's and maybe's

In isolation I could see King taking them into Admin to get rid of the retail contracts and anyone else from the wage bill he wanted shot off.

He would then pay Ashley back the £5m, which he is bound to do anyway and then own everything again.

However he wont do this as the penalties for going into Admin again mean that his only prospect this season (15-16) of promotion would be an outside chance of the play offs and next season (16-17) it would still be hard to win the league depending on who was in the championship.

The worry for them (and to a lesser extent us) is that once people switch off from going, its not easy to turn them back on.

It is interesting that their galvanising effect of their insolvency appears to have lasted for a shorter period than the Gunts (as they got back in one season) and the longer they spend out the SPL the more of their support they will lose.

Warburton, may or not be a decent manager, its far too early to tell as both sides of the OF (and several other clubs, including us) have suffered with guys who looked good on paper, but couldn't get the players to buy in to their "new" methods.

I suspect though that he will have had better players at his disposal at Brentford and that both he and they would have been under far less pressure to deliver than he will be at Ipox.

If they don't start well the natives will get extremely restless and the pressure will build.

[Jim44]

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The Rangers will go into administration, take the points penalty and be promoted through league reconstruction, start new season with 15pts deduction and avoid relegation, everything will be hunky dory.

Do you really think this will happen? Despite all the banter and hilarity at Sevco's expense, the signing of Warburton and Weir could be their meal ticket to winning the league next season. Warburton says he is totally confident that King will deliver the goods in terms of the budget he (Warburton) requires and he is going to look a bit foolish if it all goes tits-up. He doesn't strike me as the sort of guy who would throw himself in to a potential cesspit without assurances and due diligence. If they fail to get promotion, it's more likely to be because Warburton and Weir are not good enough.

[Kato]

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Do you really think this will happen? Despite all the banter and hilarity at Sevco's expense, the signing of Warburton and Weir could be their meal ticket to winning the league next season. Warburton says he is totally confident that King will deliver the goods in terms of the budget he (Warburton) requires and he is going to look a bit foolish if it all goes tits-up. He doesn't strike me as the sort of guy who would throw himself in to a potential cesspit without assurances and due diligence. If they fail to get promotion, it's more likely to be because Warburton are not good enough.

Given his previous mode of employment hype and spivery wouldn't be unknowns to him.

[CallumLaidlaw]

@BBCchrismclaug: Just over half the #Rangers shareholders voted against Mike Ashley's EGM resolution to pay back his £5 million loan.

@STVRaman: Rangers general meeting results out:
1. Pay back Mike Ashley's loan: yes 46%, no 54%
2.Renegotiate Sports Direct deal: yes 62.5 %, no 37.5 %

[Geo_1875]

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@BBCchrismclaug: Just over half the #Rangers shareholders voted against Mike Ashley's EGM resolution to pay back his £5 million loan.

@STVRaman: Rangers general meeting results out:
1. Pay back Mike Ashley's loan: yes 46%, no 54%
2.Renegotiate Sports Direct deal: yes 62.5 %, no 37.5 %

So they are the same club after all.

[CB_NO3]

The longer they take to pay back the loan to MASH the better it is for us IMO.

[Deansy]

Oh dear, seems like Warburton became a successful manager DESPITE Jock Wallace -

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl-lower-divisions/mark-warburton-overcome-by-awe-on-rangers-arrival-1-3802979

'It’s safe to assume a trip to the Gullane sand dunes, where Wallace famously put his players through their pre-season paces during his two spells as manager, is not on Warburton’s immediate agenda'

So, no 'Kick-the-crap-out-of-the-opposition' football for the Hun on the cards ??. I give him until December.

[Bostonhibby]

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@BBCchrismclaug: Just over half the #Rangers shareholders voted against Mike Ashley's EGM resolution to pay back his £5 million loan.

@STVRaman: Rangers general meeting results out:
1. Pay back Mike Ashley's loan: yes 46%, no 54%
2.Renegotiate Sports Direct deal: yes 62.5 %, no 37.5 %

The only flaw in their cunning plan might be that Ashley and sports direct might not have to do what the shareholders tell them.

Plenty mileage left

[Billychaotic182]

I'm confused. They are refusing to pay back the loan and want a better deal. How can they do this?

[Geo_1875]

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Oh dear, seems like Warburton became a successful manager DESPITE Jock Wallace -

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...ival-1-3802979

'It’s safe to assume a trip to the Gullane sand dunes, where Wallace famously put his players through their pre-season paces during his two spells as manager, is not on Warburton’s immediate agenda'

So, no 'Kick-the-crap-out-of-the-opposition' football for the Hun on the cards ??. I give him until December.

I don't get this. Who says he's become a successful manager? Why should we be worried about him taking over at Ibrox? He took someone else's team to the Championship and got beat in the play-offs. Brentford finished ahead of Wolves on goal-difference. Would we be worried if Kenny Jackett was the huns new manager? AND they've got no money to spend.

[PatHead]

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I'm confused. They are refusing to pay back the loan and want a better deal. How can they do this?

If there is no repayment date set on the loan and nothing in it to say repayable on demand they can ignore it for as long as they want.

However, the merchandising deal remains at 75% for as long as the loan is in place so it may be in The Rangers interests to get rid of the loan asap to create a cash flow. Damned if they do and damned if they don't.

[Gmack7]

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I'm confused. They are refusing to pay back the loan and want a better deal. How can they do this?

i'm telling santander i'm no happy about the loan i have with them so i've decided not to pay it back

[Cropley10]

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Its all if's, but's and maybe's

In isolation I could see King taking them into Admin to get rid of the retail contracts and anyone else from the wage bill he wanted shot off.

He would then pay Ashley back the £5m, which he is bound to do anyway and then own everything again.

However he wont do this as the penalties for going into Admin again mean that his only prospect this season (15-16) of promotion would be an outside chance of the play offs and next season (16-17) it would still be hard to win the league depending on who was in the championship.

The worry for them (and to a lesser extent us) is that once people switch off from going, its not easy to turn them back on.

It is interesting that their galvanising effect of their insolvency appears to have lasted for a shorter period than the Gunts (as they got back in one season) and the longer they spend out the SPL the more of their support they will lose.

Warburton, may or not be a decent manager, its far too early to tell as both sides of the OF (and several other clubs, including us) have suffered with guys who looked good on paper, but couldn't get the players to buy in to their "new" methods.

I suspect though that he will have had better players at his disposal at Brentford and that both he and they would have been under far less pressure to deliver than he will be at Ipox.

If they don't start well the natives will get extremely restless and the pressure will build.

My understanding is that Ranges Retail is a separate business (a JV) and would not be impacted by administration of Rangers International…

[AndyM_1875]

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Ashley holds security over everything except Ibrox. He can force admin 2 and still be in total control at the end of the process.

Let me be Devil's Advocate and ask 2 questions.
Why would Mike Ashley force Admin2?
Who benefits from it?

There is no aggressive creditor there trying to prove a point as there was in 2012 with HMRC who were chasing a legal precedent that never came. Ashley cannot take control of the club as he owns Newcastle. A guy worth Billions isn't going to sink Rangers over what is to him spare change. But he has Rangers by the nuts in terms of contracts and securities as they found to their cost in court last week. So why force Administration? The retail contracts aren't going anywhere.

If Administration happened Ashley would probably lose the entire interest he has in Rangers including these punitive contracts and there is surely a functioning business in that club that could be sold on to new owners?

Whatever we think of Rangers they are a big name and at one time they were a huge club and they still have a big support. Run along similar lines to Celtic they could be very successful. So why sink them? (An answer of 'cos they're a bunch of knob-ends' probably isn't correct)

[Ozyhibby]

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There are 2 likely outcomes from administration.

1. there is an accepted CVA (in which MASH have no vote), out of which a new owner takes control. MASH are paid off to the extent of their securities, and the securities lapse.

2. that CVA isn't accepted, and liquidation follows.

Unless MASH, or someone related, is that new owner, I can't see how Ashley would still be "in total control".

True but Mash would still control all the trademarks, badges name etc as ownership of them was transferred to mash and so they would not make up part of the CVA.
Be hard to see how anyone else could put together a deal without those crucial parts of the intellectual property?

[CropleyWasGod]

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True but Mash would still control all the trademarks, badges name etc as ownership of them was transferred to mash and so they would not make up part of the CVA.
Be hard to see how anyone else could put together a deal without those crucial parts of the intellectual property?

They're returnable once the loan is repaid, no?

[jacomo]

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Given his previous mode of employment hype and spivery wouldn't be unknowns to him.

You would also think that Warburton would have asked a few questions about the finances before signing up.

[Andy74]

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i'm telling santander i'm no happy about the loan i have with them so i've decided not to pay it back

Wrong way round. It's like Santander asking for it all back now. Would you be up for that?

[Kato]

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You would also think that Warburton would have asked a few questions about the finances before signing up.

He'd be told that King has "wealth off the radar", (even though radar isn't very good at measuring wealth, as we've seen with previous owners of clubs at Ibrox.)

OR

That King has a lot of bread - more dough than you can dream of.

I say, let them eat cake.

[magpie1892]

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Let me be Devil's Advocate and ask 2 questions.
Why would Mike Ashley force Admin2?
Who benefits from it?

There is no aggressive creditor there trying to prove a point as there was in 2012 with HMRC who were chasing a legal precedent that never came. Ashley cannot take control of the club as he owns Newcastle. A guy worth Billions isn't going to sink Rangers over what is to him spare change. But he has Rangers by the nuts in terms of contracts and securities as they found to their cost in court last week. So why force Administration? The retail contracts aren't going anywhere.

If Administration happened Ashley would probably lose the entire interest he has in Rangers including these punitive contracts and there is surely a functioning business in that club that could be sold on to new owners?

Whatever we think of Rangers they are a big name and at one time they were a huge club and they still have a big support. Run along similar lines to Celtic they could be very successful. So why sink them? (An answer of 'cos they're a bunch of knob-ends' probably isn't correct)

You're right - it's pennies to Ashley, but the man has a vindictive streak as wide as the Tyne and I honestly think he gets his jollies from destroying anyone who opposes him, regardless of whether if it profits him or not.

He's turned SJP into a disgusting hoarding for **** Direct, and the same company still occupies the digital hoardings at Greyskull. He knows that the hun still have a global reach, albeit without the global exposure of the EPL.

As has already been posted, a long way to run in this one, but what is hilarious is that but a few weeks ago, the hun were trumpeting how they'd got rid of Ashley. So you have, aye.

[Ozyhibby]

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They're returnable once the loan is repaid, no?

Yes but instead of just taking security over these assets until it is repaid as normally happens, sports direct have actually taken ownership of them. If they go into admin then I would think this puts Ashley in the driving seat for a CVA ?

[StevieC]

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Let me be Devil's Advocate and ask 2 questions.
Why would Mike Ashley force Admin2?
Who benefits from it?

Let me be a Newcastle United supporter and answer your questions ..
He does whatever the **** he wants.
He doesn't give a ****.

[magpie1892]

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Let me be a Newcastle United supporter and answer your questions ..
He does whatever the **** he wants.
He doesn't give a ****.

That's pretty much what I said, except you have done so more succinctly.