Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[CropleyWasGod]

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There was speculation on KDS it might have something to do with the original £ 5.5 million plus interest borrowed in 2012 to buy the club assets from Duff and Phelps.

Maybe some small print saying if the sum is'nt repaid by a certain date it falls due by by the Club.

I saw that on Twitter.

However, that's too simple. The auditors would follow that transaction through. How much....how financed. ...how paid. If it wasn't paid, they would know and demand it be shown as a creditor.

[Cropley10]

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I saw that on Twitter.

However, that's too simple. The auditors would follow that transaction through. How much....how financed. ...how paid. If it wasn't paid, they would know and demand it be shown as a creditor.

The suggestion appears to be that it was, or is, a side-letter, referred to elsewhere as 'incognito leverage'.

All normal rules in this saga don't apply CWG - Charles Green did not set up this Clumpany to benefit (the) Rangers fans - he set the whole thing up to benefit himself and others, IMHO.

The sheer amount of money TheRangers have got through since 2012 is testament to this.

[CropleyWasGod]

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The suggestion appears to be that it was, or is, a side-letter, referred to elsewhere as 'incognito leverage'.

All normal rules in this saga don't apply CWG - Charles Green did not set up this Clumpany to benefit (the) Rangers fans - he set the whole thing up to benefit himself and others, IMHO.

The sheer amount of money TheRangers have got through since 2012 is testament to this.

I see that.

But some simple rules still apply. Either it was paid for or it wasn't. That should be straightforward enough for the auditors.

[Cropley10]

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I see that.

But some simple rules still apply. Either it was paid for or it wasn't. That should be straightforward enough for the auditors.

So if auditors can only audit what's in front of them, and this side-letter wasn't in front of them, and it's now been handed to the Clumpany and the claim is valid?

[CropleyWasGod]

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So if auditors can only audit what's in front of them, and this side-letter wasn't in front of them, and it's now been handed to the Clumpany and the claim is valid?

Think people are over thinking this.

Taking it from first principles:-

1. The purchase of the assets of OldCo/First Sevco is fundamental to the Balance Sheet.
2. The auditors therefore have to establish whether the purchase was valid, how it was financed, and whether it was paid for.
3. If they are able to do all that, the accounts reflect the evidence.
4. If they can't do that, their audit report will say so.

4 doesn't apply. Therefore there are only 3 possible scenarios.

1. The accounts are wrong, and the auditors didn't do their job properly.
2. The accounts are wrong, and the auditors were misled.
3. The accounts are right.

The talk of side letters is muck raking IMO, and deflects from the basics.

It's notable that not even Phil McG has said what the alleged debt relates to.

[Keith_M]

Let me see if I've got this latest rumour correct:


1) Green & Co 'pay' D&F 5.5 million for the Club Assets.

2) Green & Co get Preference Shares at 1p to reward them for putting in the 5.5M for the Club Assets.

3) The 'Payment' to D&F was actually loaded onto the Club in the form of a repayable Loan that has, to the surprise of those now in charge of the Clumpany, become due for repayment.

4) This has all been hidden in some mysterious way from everybody after Green left, inclding the people paid to audit The Accounts.



Does that about sum it up?

[Weststandwanab]

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Let me see if I've got this latest rumour correct:


1) Green & Co 'pay' D&F 5.5 million for the Club Assets.

2) Green & Co get Preference Shares at 1p to reward them for putting in the 5.5M for the Club Assets.

3) The 'Payment' to D&F was actually loaded onto the Club in the form of a repayable Loan that has, to the surprise of those now in charge of the Clumpany, become due for repayment.

4) This has all been hidden in some mysterious way from everybody after Green left, inclding the people paid to audit The Accounts.



Does that about sum it up?

I would have to say there is every chance that the answer is Yes.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Let me see if I've got this latest rumour correct:


1) Green & Co 'pay' D&F 5.5 million for the Club Assets.

2) Green & Co get Preference Shares at 1p to reward them for putting in the 5.5M for the Club Assets.

3) The 'Payment' to D&F was actually loaded onto the Club in the form of a repayable Loan that has, to the surprise of those now in charge of the Clumpany, become due for repayment.

4) This has all been hidden in some mysterious way from everybody after Green left, inclding the people paid to audit The Accounts.



Does that about sum it up?

If it's that simple, the auditors need shot. That wouldn't be "hiding", it would be incompetence.

[Weststandwanab]

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If it's that simple, the auditors need shot. That wouldn't be "hiding", it would be incompetence.

Okay, I will ask the question, who were the auditors ?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Okay, I will ask the question, who were the auditors ?

Deloittes I believe.

[hibeedonald]

Hearts to beat them next week at Ibrox is 12/5. Incredible odds when you consider how bad they actually are and that hearts have beat them twice.

[greenginger]

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Deloittes I believe.

And they were paid plenty, so should know all the answers.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/busines...-audit-3071074

[grunt]

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And they were paid plenty, so should know all the answers.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/busines...-audit-3071074

That's quite a story! £933k for Charles Green!!!

[CropleyWasGod]

I've had a quick skim of the accounts.

The only thing that sticks out is that there were a couple of claims relating to Craig Whyte. No financial value was placed on either, and they haven't been included in the accounts. The first was dismissed by RFC, after an investigation. The second has had no movement since July 13, and the club therefore reckon it's not going anywhere.

The auditors have agreed with the club's view of both claims, which seems reasonable to me.

It is possible that one or both of these have resurfaced. However, I can't see that that would have happened so quickly and without any Court movement.

[Cropley10]

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I've had a quick skim of the accounts.

The only thing that sticks out is that there were a couple of claims relating to Craig Whyte. No financial value was placed on either, and they haven't been included in the accounts. The first was dismissed by RFC, after an investigation. The second has had no movement since July 13, and the club therefore reckon it's not going anywhere.

The auditors have agreed with the club's view of both claims, which seems reasonable to me.

It is possible that one or both of these have resurfaced. However, I can't see that that would have happened so quickly and without any Court movement.

It is highly likely that Whyte was duped by Green - the Police are now investigating the whole thing and it's also highly likely that Green left some timebombs.

The chat on Twitter is that - as Bomber Brown alluded to back in 2012 - the claim relates to ownership of or money due for Ibrox and/or Murray Park, via a side-letter that the auditors weren't privy to...

[Just Alf]

Sarvar bid rejected

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30774504

Where now for them?

[EdinMike]

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Sarvar bid rejected

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30774504

Where now for them?

What are they waiting on/expecting ?!

[Ronniekirk]

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What are they waiting on/expecting ?!

He has upped his bid once so bit of brinkmanship to test out how much he is prepared to go to .Who knows anymore but the unedifying spectacle continues to occupy the public glare ,and something has to get worked out soon unless it's more short term loans secured against what as surely there can't be much left they can put up for Security that they haven't already put up,

[CropleyWasGod]

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He has upped his bid once so bit of brinkmanship to test out how much he is prepared to go to .Who knows anymore but the unedifying spectacle continues to occupy the public glare ,and something has to get worked out soon unless it's more short term loans secured against what as surely there can't be much left they can put up for Security that they haven't already put up,

There's been media speculation that Carver was going to join up with King and the 3 Bears. For that reason alone, Ashley probably wants nothing to do with him.

[bighairyfaeleith]

The currant bun we keep in the corner of the office reckons king is on his way to ibrox now, no idea why or what he plans to do ofcourse!!

[Keith_M]

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There's been media speculation that Carver was going to join up with King and the 3 Bears. For that reason alone, Ashley probably wants nothing to do with him.

Proably, but Ashley has less than 10% of the shares, so couldn't block it on his own. They really should have put it to the Shareholders to decide, instead of rejecting it out of hand.

This smacks of yet more self-preservation on the part of the Easdales, et al. They'll only accept an offer that keeps them in their positions on the board(s).

[grunt]

BBCBMcLauchlin ‏@BBCBMcLauchlin5m5 minutes agoRobert Sarvar pulls out of bid for Rangers after latest offer rejected. More soon on Radio Scotland #bbcsportscot

[DaveF]

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BBCBMcLauchlin ‏@BBCBMcLauchlin5m5 minutes agoRobert Sarvar pulls out of bid for Rangers after latest offer rejected. More soon on Radio Scotland #bbcsportscot

He can chuck his £18m our way if he wants

[grunt]

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He can chuck his £18m our way if he wants

The £18m would have gone to the shareholders, not to the club.

[Iain G]

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Proably, but Ashley has less than 10% of the shares, so couldn't block it on his own. They really should have put it to the Shareholders to decide, instead of rejecting it out of hand.

This smacks of yet more self-preservation on the part of the Easdales, et al. They'll only accept an offer that keeps them in their positions on the board(s).

They wanna keep feeding at the trough instead of sorting out the club, fat gorged parasites that they are.

[overdrive]

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The £18m would have gone to the shareholders, not to the club.

Not if he bought shares in us though, which I think was the point.

[Weststandwanab]

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He can chuck his £18m our way if he wants

I would rather he did not.

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They wanna keep feeding at the trough instead of sorting out the club, fat gorged parasites that they are.

Indeed they do it would appear.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Not if he bought shares in us though, which I think was the point.

If he bought existing shares in us, then yes, the money would go to the existing shareholders.

[southsider]

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If he bought existing shares in us, then yes, the money would go to the existing shareholders.

He can buy 50% of mine (400 shares). All for a total price of £2,000,000. I am sure AS will spend it wisely.

[kaimendhibs]

Someone like me who knows nowt about business and corporate finance could almost believe Sevco would welcome another insolvency event as they seem hellbent on making things worse/not making improvements