Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[Hibs Class]

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Don't exclude the Manager and coaches from the criticism. Fat Swally is as culpable as the Board.

But if I was fatboy I'd be speaking with my solicitor today to see about an action to have the money for my wages ring-fenced, just in case. Or at the very least confirmed as a football debt.

[Spike Mandela]

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But if I was fatboy I'd be speaking with my solicitor today to see about an action to have the money for my wages ring-fenced, just in case. Or at the very least confirmed as a football debt.

Do you reall believe he won't have done that already?

[Ozyhibby]

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Don't exclude the Manager and coaches from the criticism. Fat Swally is as culpable as the Board.

Absolutely, but even his wages could have been afforded if they had not been shafted by Green.

[Iain G]

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Tell him he's talking "single fish". Why would the SFA receive any transfer money? it would go directly to the club that sold the player.
They may well be holding back payments due, but it'll be nothing to do with the recent transfer.

Getting confused between transfer monies and the tv deal money they were holding back to cover payments Green and co agreed to pay?!

[Weststandwanab]

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.. and then what?

What would be their course of action?

I do not know.

I have no idea what powers they have under their constitution or Articles etc. I would have thought, at the very least, they could be issued with a formal warning stating that renewal of their Licence would be at risk in these circumstances

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Therein lies a very murky path.


Not all clubs have sufficient money available at the beginning of the season to pay all bills for that season. In fact, I'd be surprised if (m)any Clubs had that. The authorities really have to take it on trust that the Clubs have done their sums correctly.

I'm not convinced it's within the remit of the SFA to second guess financial calculations of member Clubs.

I am sure you are correct but funds are generated throughout the season and the club will have a reasonable idea of when these fund materialise and are available to utilise.

Consequently this can be implemented into projections which the governing body could scrutinise and question.

I my opinion.

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They should have some rules in place to ensure a team can finish the season and could start by making rules on expenditure similar to Football League in England. In the event of a projection being totally inaccurate a points penalty and/or withholding of tv money should take place for the following season.

Finally a The Rangers supporter in the office next door was telling me that SFA are holding £250k back from Lewis McLeod's transfer money to meet the outstanding legal bill.

Never rains but it pours eh!

Precisely and good to read they appear to be growing a set.

[Spike Mandela]

Surely you don't get to the point of non payment of National Insurance without having a lengthy list of creditors awaiting payment as well. Wonder if any others are likely to trigger winding up notices?

[AndyM_1875]

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I don't like sticking up for the Huns but I don't think their current predicament is as much to do with over paid players as it is to do with the amount of money that has left the club to the likes of Charles Green and friends and the fact that all their normal revenue streams like shirt sales have been sold to third parties.
Had the new Rangers been properly run from day one then they could have had all those high paid players and been well on their way back to the top tier.

True.

I had a beer with a Hun mate from Uni days after the 4-0. He wasn't surprised by the scoreline BTW. His line to me was if they had taken the U20s from 2012 and added Wallace and McCulloch they would still have won Divisions 3 and 2 as they were the only full time team in those leagues (Dunfermline apart last year) and probably played a lot better football.

[emerald green]

So, if I've got this latest twist in this never ending saga correct, Easdale has basically stepped in with an emergency loan of £500k which keeps them from going into administration (again) "within days". Is that correct?

If so, how much longer can he, and/or others, keep bailing them out so to speak? Presumably the SFA are happy to sit back and say nothing while this farce continues?

[Keith_M]

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But if I was fatboy I'd be speaking with my solicitor today to see about an action to have the money for my wages ring-fenced, just in case. Or at the very least confirmed as a football debt.

If they go into Administration, the only Football Debt will be any unpaid wages up until the point his Contract is cancelled (which the Administrators can do at a stroke).

The cancellation of his Contract will be one of the first things they do. After it's cancelled, there's not a thing he can do about it.

IMHO, he's known for a while they were likely to go into Administration and it's the main reason he handed in his notice when he did. That ensured that he would gain the maximum possible salary for the last few months of Rangers MkII

[Weststandwanab]

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I am struggling to see how rules can be put in place to ensure that a club can finish the season. Other than a bond, which would actually make things worse in cashflow terms for just about everyone, I can't see how anything would prevent the Rangers situation.

On the legal bill stuff, I wasn't aware that transfer money went via the SFA.

CWG you are quite correct regarding the bond and adversities of them.

However, there was a defacto Bond system in place when the league had an official sponsor because the sums due were held on behalf of clubs until release dates.

Now that there is no Sponsor that option is removed and therefore there should be even more financial scrutiny, in my opinion.

Further, I think this recently flurry of clubs “going debt free” is a symptom of stricter financial rules coming from Governing Bodies.

[Keith_M]

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I am sure you are correct but funds are generated throughout the season and the club will have a reasonable idea of when these fund materialise and are available to utilise.

Consequently this can be implemented into projections which the governing body could scrutinise and question.

I my opinion.

That's true, but I think the King inspired 'boycott' has hit them quite hard. That probably threw their calculations out by quite a bit.


Don't get me wrong, I'd be all in favour of the SFA enforcing some kind of financial viability test for Clubs. It's just that I suspect it would be a very difficult thing to do.

[bingo70]

Why would they go into admin when Dave king plus those other 3 Huns just pumped money into them? Also, is this American boy from the basketball outfit not a better alternative to administration?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Why would they go into admin when Dave king plus those other 3 Huns just pumped money into them? Also, is this American boy from the basketball outfit not a better alternative to administration?

Nobody has "pumped money into them".

The shares that have been bought recently are existing shares. The money goes to the existing shareholders.

[Spike Mandela]

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Why would they go into admin when Dave king plus those other 3 Huns just pumped money into them? Also, is this American boy from the basketball outfit not a better alternative to administration?

They didn't 'pump money in to them'. They bought shares and money went to whoever shareholders were.

Edit:Ha ha. Snap CWG.

[Weststandwanab]

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Surely you don't get to the point of non payment of National Insurance without having a lengthy list of creditors awaiting payment as well. Wonder if any others are likely to trigger winding up notices?

There undoubtedly will be other creditors but they are far less likely than H.M.R.C. to threaten winding up

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So, if I've got this latest twist in this never ending saga correct, Easdale has basically stepped in with an emergency loan of £500k which keeps them from going into administration (again) "within days". Is that correct?

If so, how much longer can he, and/or others, keep bailing them out so to speak? Presumably the SFA are happy to sit back and say nothing while this farce continues?

I would say Yes, as long as the Easdales are able to keep bailing them but probably not that long and who knows what the S.F.A. are happy with.

[bingo70]

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Nobody has "pumped money into them".

The shares that have been bought recently are existing shares. The money goes to the existing shareholders.

Thanks. I thought that money was to help tide them over.

What's in it for these guys to spend so much money on a club that's about to go into administration?

Apologies if that's a daft question, I'm baffled by the whole situation.

[CropleyWasGod]

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So, if I've got this latest twist in this never ending saga correct, Easdale has basically stepped in with an emergency loan of £500k which keeps them from going into administration (again) "within days". Is that correct?

If so, how much longer can he, and/or others, keep bailing them out so to speak? Presumably the SFA are happy to sit back and say nothing while this farce continues?

The SFA, and the SPFL, don't need to say anything until rules are broken.

They have already called RFC to account for the AshleyGate business. They will also, if the reports are true, take action on the non-payment of HMRC.

Otherwise, that's all they can do.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Thanks. I thought that money was to help tide them over.

What's in it for these guys to spend so much money on a club that's about to go into administration?

Apologies if that's a daft question, I'm baffled by the whole situation.

Not a daft question, and one that is boggling a lot of minds. I have 3 theories at the moment:-

1. Clearly, these guys think that they're getting the shares cheaply. Even if RFC were to go into administration, they (GoldenKing and the 3 Bears) could conceivably come out at the other end with a good deal. That's a huge gamble, but one they will have calculated.

2. they got wind of the basketball guy's interests, and decided to load up with shares in the hope that he would buy them out at a premium.

3. they actually didn't know just how bad things are. I think this is unlikely, but then again this story has been so unpredictable......

[Andy74]

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Not a daft question, and one that is boggling a lot of minds. I have 2 theories at the moment:-

1. Clearly, these guys think that they're getting the shares cheaply. Even if RFC were to go into administration, they (GoldenKing and the 3 Bears) could conceivably come out at the other end with a good deal. That's a huge gamble, but one they will have calculated.

2. they got wind of the basketball guy's interests, and decided to load up with shares in the hope that he would buy them out at a premium.

Or they all have their eyes on a bit of power and being named in anything that contains the words Loyal, Union, Bear, King, Royal etc etc.

[Keith_M]

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...
What's in it for these guys to spend so much money on a club that's about to go into administration?
...

There are SO many possibilities but here's a few:


They're not very good businessmen.

They have a cunning plan that the rest of us don't know about.

Their love for their Club is blinding them to the true situation.

The Easdales have told them to 'buy shares, or we'll send the boys round'.

They suspect they can profit from the Company going into Administration.


I'm sure there's more but that's a few to be going along with

[Ozyhibby]

http://m.stv.tv/sport/football/clubs...ayment-of-tax/

[CropleyWasGod]

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http://m.stv.tv/sport/football/clubs...ayment-of-tax/

Not going to rely on STV''s financial nous. They have previous.

1. the headline says "tax".

2. the report says "National Insurance".

3. this bit..... STV estimates Rangers pay £140,000 per month in National Insurance, raised both from employee and employer contributions, based on salary information detailed in the latest company accounts. That's almost impossible to estimate.

I'm puzzled as to why all of the reports only talk about National Insurance. That suggests that their PAYE is up to date, which would be nonsense; they're paid together these days, and aren't separated out in the payments.

[Keith_M]

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http://m.stv.tv/sport/football/clubs...ayment-of-tax/

The article seems to suggest that they actually aren't behind in any payments to HMRC.

Could it be that it was all just an unsubstantiated rumour?

[CropleyWasGod]

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The article seems to suggest that they actually aren't behind in any payments to HMRC.

Could it be that it was all just an unsubstantiated rumour?

It's been updated since Ozy and I first read it.

The internet needs shot sometimes....

[grunt]

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The article seems to suggest that they actually aren't behind in any payments to HMRC.

Could it be that it was all just an unsubstantiated rumour?

How to run an SPFL Investigation:
SPFL - Hi Rangers, are you in default?
Rangers - Nope.
Investigation complete.

[Keith_M]

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It's been updated since Ozy and I first read it.

The internet needs shot sometimes....

I know, they just change things at a whim.

[Ozyhibby]

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How to run an SPFL Investigation:
SPFL - Hi Rangers, are you in default?
Rangers - Nope.
Investigation complete.

There's no way Campbell Ogilvie would do that, surely?

[Ozyhibby]

What is obvious is that they need cash double quick. It looks like they only have funding for days or weeks rather than months ahead.

[CropleyWasGod]

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There's no way Campbell Ogilvie would do that, surely?

He's not involved with any of them, sadly.

Besides, he's too busy warding off irate Hibbies in StennyGate.

[VivaHiberña]

I don't think this has been posted yet, I'm sure there are some folk on here who can't stand Campbell for perfectly understandable reasons, but it's a good deconstruction of their "same club" s***e (it's also almost entirely politics-free).