Scottish Independence

[xyz23jc]

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Jeanne Freeman putting Andrew Neil in his place.


http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/09...-scottish-nhs/

Pleasing.

[Moulin Yarns]

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But it's not an additional 20,000 people is it? It's people based in Rosyth, Glencorse, Leuchars, Dreghorn and the like just moving.

You haven't read the white paper then otherwise you would know that it is more than the existing non wmd staff. But then that wouldn't help your spurious argument.

[Beefster]

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You haven't read the white paper then otherwise you would know that it is more than the existing non wmd staff. But then that wouldn't help your spurious argument.

I thought the White Paper was basically the SNP's manifesto for the first post-independence Scottish election?

[xyz23jc]

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When Govan closes the door on the Scottish Labour leader, it's getting serious.

This story was headlining on the Scotsman but has been removed for some reason

Good old Archives.

https://archive.today/oi5Qd

Even more pleasing.

[Hibrandenburg]

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This is just a personal thing but my eyes grate every time I see people in the Yes camp wording their sentences so that Westminster is portrayed as not ours.

It's as much mine and yours as it is someone in Manchester or Newcastle or Swansea or Derry or Truro or Margate.

There probably isn't a country on the planet where power and influence don't congregate around the capital and the main seat of government and this gets portrayed as centricism.

In an independent Scotland the people of Helmsdale and Hawick would have exactly the same complaints about Holyrood.

Eh, Germany, US, Scotland, Australia.......

[Moulin Yarns]

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I thought the White Paper was basically the SNP's manifesto for the first post-independence Scottish election?

It provides proposals on all sorts of things. Defense for example the first term of government would have 3500 armed forces, rising to 20,000 after 10 year. Ok, that is what the SNP want and could be different depending on the make up of the Parliament but you get the idea

[xyz23jc]

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This has to be the best yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...8E&app=desktop

De primera clase! Kwality! Woohooo..... Go Scotland! Gonna send this worldwide! Thanks!

[xyz23jc]

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And vote Yes for a longer better life if your Glaswegian?

Oh yes!

[xyz23jc]

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A final word for the poster known as 'Mibbes Aye'

I know where you live


Attachment 13422

Gie me his address! I already know where Willie Miller, Billy McNeil and Bertie Auld live! haha

[xyz23jc]

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With the wee exception of what our total budget is, which remains at Westminster. Independence will change that to ensure every penny raised in Scotland stays in Scotland.

Bingo! We have a winner!

[Mibbes Aye]

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You haven't read the white paper then otherwise you would know that it is more than the existing non wmd staff. But then that wouldn't help your spurious argument.

You're missing the point.

The 20,000 people you end up with, pumping money into the economy, are simply going to be 20,000 people who were already pumping money into the economy but just in a different part of Scotland.

It's not doing anything extra for the collective wealth of the nation.

[Moulin Yarns]

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You're missing the point.

The 20,000 people you end up with, pumping money into the economy, are simply going to be 20,000 people who were already pumping money into the economy but just in a different part of Scotland.

It's not doing anything extra for the collective wealth of the nation.

Wrong, but don't worry. In 10 years time those currently employed by the army etc. won't all be and will be replaced by new soldiers.

[Mibbes Aye]

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Eh, Germany, US, Scotland, Australia.......

Yeah, that's right. People never talk about Washington insiders and the Beltway. In US general elections, candidates who were state governors and the like never portray themselves as outside the Washington establishment to try and increase their vote

I don't think you can say that power doesn't congregate around Berlin but I acknowledge there is something slightly different with Germany's history (and I mean going back to the Hanseatic League but obviously also taking into account division and reunification).

As for Australia, the legislature, the judiciary and a large part of the executive are based there - feels like a cluster of power and influence to me.

[Mibbes Aye]

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Wrong, but don't worry. In 10 years time those currently employed by the army etc. won't all be and will be replaced by new soldiers.

From where?

[CropleyWasGod]

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You're missing the point.

The 20,000 people you end up with, pumping money into the economy, are simply going to be 20,000 people who were already pumping money into the economy but just in a different part of Scotland.

It's not doing anything extra for the collective wealth of the nation.

However, it is a good argument against those that say getting rid of Trident will be bad for the collective economy.

[Mibbes Aye]

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However, it is a good argument against those that say getting rid of Trident will be bad for the collective economy.

Surely there's a net loss CWG?

I know in this scenario we are all making assumptions, shared hopefully.

If Trident goes we lose the infrastructure. There's a consequent financial hit to the economy, whatever size or scale.

We shift all our military resource to Faslane. Good for Faslane but it's lost elsewhere in the economy, so it's broadly neutral financially.

And this is before we get into how we develop and pay for miltary assets that you can't simply take 10% of, from the UK pile - a secure comms and IT system for example?

[Moulin Yarns]

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From where?

Eh, school

[Mibbes Aye]

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Eh, school

Okay, apart from the assumption that we will successfully recruit the numbers, again I think you are missing the point.

We talked about a hit to the economy if the subs and the infrastructure were to go.

There's a claim that things will be better because all armed forces will be based there.

That's not better though, it's just moving pieces on a chessboard.

Great for the greater Faslane area but these are people we have to assume are economically active, or would be, in the rest of Scotland.

So I struggle to see where the gain is?

[ronaldo7]

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You're missing the point.

The 20,000 people you end up with, pumping money into the economy, are simply going to be 20,000 people who were already pumping money into the economy but just in a different part of Scotland.

It's not doing anything extra for the collective wealth of the nation.

Are you really sure about that. Do you know that every single one of the people working at Faslane are living in Scotland? Do you think that there may be some who live outside Scotland and only come here for their working hours?

[ronaldo7]

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Okay, apart from the assumption that we will successfully recruit the numbers, again I think you are missing the point.

We talked about a hit to the economy if the subs and the infrastructure were to go.

There's a claim that things will be better because all armed forces will be based there.

That's not better though, it's just moving pieces on a chessboard.

Great for the greater Faslane area but these are people we have to assume are economically active, or would be, in the rest of Scotland.

So I struggle to see where the gain is?

Can you provide the evidence that someone from the Scottish Gov said it would be better?

They maybe said it would be off set but I can't remember someone from the YES camp saying BETTER

[Mibbes Aye]

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Can you provide the evidence that someone from the Scottish Gov said it would be better?

They maybe said it would be off set but I can't remember someone from the YES camp saying BETTER

I was referring to Golden Fleece

[Mibbes Aye]

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Are you really sure about that. Do you know that every single one of the people working at Faslane are living in Scotland? Do you think that there may be some who live outside Scotland and only come here for their working hours?

I don't think that many people make the daily commute from Surrey or Hampshire, if that's what you mean?

It's a bit OTT to ask me if I know the personal circumstances of every employee at Faslane, isn't it?

[JeMeSouviens]

Breaking ... Yougov (Sun Times):

Y 51 (+4)
N 49 (-4)

****ing ****! :-)

[ronaldo7]

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I don't think that many people make the daily commute from Surrey or Hampshire, if that's what you mean?

It's a bit OTT to ask me if I know the personal circumstances of every employee at Faslane, isn't it?

I know of 3 people who travel to work in Faslane for the week. They all live in England.

Auf Wiedersehen Pet.

[ronaldo7]

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I was referring to Golden Fleece

I'm sure he will be able to say whether he actually said it would be "Better", then again Mibbes Naw

[Mibbes Aye]

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I'm sure he will be able to say whether he actually said it would be "Better", then again Mibbes Naw

It was something along the lines of "More people putting money into the local economy"

See ya

[Mibbes Aye]

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I know of 3 people who travel to work in Faslane for the week. They all live in England.

Auf Wiedersehen Pet.

3 people eh?

That changes everything

[DaveF]

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3 people eh?

That changes everything

To be fair, its 3 more than you came up with

[ronaldo7]

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It was something along the lines of "More people putting money into the local economy"

See ya

So it wasn't really Better then. I was right when I said you should take it easy

[ronaldo7]

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3 people eh?

That changes everything

If little old me knows of 3 then I'm sure there are many more. Kind of puts your argument to bed of just moving people around Scotland though eh