Scottish Independence

[JeMeSouviens]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...litical-agenda

Eek!

I'm a small, developed, western democracy with no desire to meddle any further in the affairs of the middle east, get me the **** out of here!!!!

[lucky]

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http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...litical-agenda

Eek!

I'm a small, developed, western democracy with no desire to meddle any further in the affairs of the middle east, get me the **** out of here!!!!

So if Scotland is independent will Blair and his like not intervene in the Middle East? Course not. It was the Scottish MPs that stopped cameron bombing Syria. Without the Scots the UK and USA would have bombed Syria. I'd rather stop it than say it happened but not in my name. It's crucial that we continue to influence UK and western foreign policy. But we can only do that by having Scots at Westminster. Before any starts about that idea failed on Iraq, I accept that, but let's ensure no further unnecessary wars take place

[PeeJay]

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If you are undecided then this is worth reading

http://yesdivit.wordpress.com/2014/0...y-road-to-yes/

Couldn't quite see what is so good about this article that it could sway an undecided voter to vote "yes". Don't see it myself.

Agree wholeheartedly with his sentiment that individuals should find out as much as possible about what independence will mean for Scotland before casting their votes.

His BC take on politicians however is pathetic nonsense and his assertion that the Internet is a better place to find the "truth" is surely misguided ...

... maybe someone should tell Fraser that not only "Scots" are entitled to vote in the referendum .... (... "if every single Scot"...)

[hibsbollah]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...g-ground-polls

Yay 39%
Nay 42%
Dinnae Ken 19%

Or excluding dinnae kens

Yay 48%
Nay 52%

Closer and closer...

[Glory Lurker]

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So if Scotland is independent will Blair and his like not intervene in the Middle East? Course not. It was the Scottish MPs that stopped cameron bombing Syria. Without the Scots the UK and USA would have bombed Syria. I'd rather stop it than say it happened but not in my name. It's crucial that we continue to influence UK and western foreign policy. But we can only do that by having Scots at Westminster. Before any starts about that idea failed on Iraq, I accept that, but let's ensure no further unnecessary wars take place

All very noble, but I don't want my kids to forgo the benefits of independence just so that we can occasionally maybe stop Westminster doing something stupid.

[ronaldo7]

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So if Scotland is independent will Blair and his like not intervene in the Middle East? Course not. It was the Scottish MPs that stopped cameron bombing Syria. Without the Scots the UK and USA would have bombed Syria. I'd rather stop it than say it happened but not in my name. It's crucial that we continue to influence UK and western foreign policy. But we can only do that by having Scots at Westminster. Before any starts about that idea failed on Iraq, I accept that, but let's ensure no further unnecessary wars take place

When was this vote?

How many Scots Labour MP's voted?

It's just that the Scottish Labour Mp's told us they would vote against the Bedroom tax and several never even turned up.

http://ukgeneralelection2015.blogspo...ll-labour.html

Then there was the vote on the Welfare cap where I thought they would support the poor. I know of 32 Labour MP's who voted with the Tories.

Seems to me it's a tactic of the No campaign to make bold statements and then run for the hills without being allowed to be challenged on them.

George Osborne and Gordon Brown spring to mind. When George made his sermon on the pound and Gordon on his pensions. Both opted out of speaking to the media therefor not allowing the claims to be challenged.

[The Harp Awakes]

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http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...g-ground-polls

Yay 39%
Nay 42%
Dinnae Ken 19%

Or excluding dinnae kens

Yay 48%
Nay 52%

Closer and closer...

No time for complacency but tonight is genuinely the first time I have believed that we're heading for a Yes' vote.

[Moulin Yarns]

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So if Scotland is independent will Blair and his like not intervene in the Middle East? Course not. It was the Scottish MPs that stopped cameron bombing Syria. Without the Scots the UK and USA would have bombed Syria. I'd rather stop it than say it happened but not in my name. It's crucial that we continue to influence UK and western foreign policy. But we can only do that by having Scots at Westminster. Before any starts about that idea failed on Iraq, I accept that, but let's ensure no further unnecessary wars take place

That is why being an independent Nation State within the European Union, United Nations and NATO will work. Each nation has the same voting rights. The number of Scottish MPs at Westminster will never have the same influence because they are so outnumbered by those we didn't vote for.

[JeMeSouviens]

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So if Scotland is independent will Blair and his like not intervene in the Middle East? Course not. It was the Scottish MPs that stopped cameron bombing Syria. Without the Scots the UK and USA would have bombed Syria. I'd rather stop it than say it happened but not in my name. It's crucial that we continue to influence UK and western foreign policy. But we can only do that by having Scots at Westminster. Before any starts about that idea failed on Iraq, I accept that, but let's ensure no further unnecessary wars take place

You are Lord George Robertson! Where do I claim my £5?

I think the best influence we could have on UK foreign policy is to further diminish the UK's imperial hangover pretence of being a "great power" by becoming independent. The UK's "defence" spending, at 2.5% of GDP, is wildly disproportionate compared to other European countries. Only France, the other ex-imperialist, comes close.

If you think Scots MPs at Westminster are going to stop that, you are utterly delusional. Jim Murphy, John Reid, Gordon Brown (even TB himself is really a Scot) ... all seduced by the chance to be "players" on the world stage. All cheerleaders for doomed military adventure.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Gordon Brown in warning about pensions.

After the break ... A. Fox warns about the perilous state of chicken farming in an independent Scotland.

Good grief, the fox-chickens thing would actually be less ironic than this ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-minister.html

I'm starting to think there's a Tory conspiracy aiming for a Yes vote.

[Saorsa]

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Good grief, the fox-chickens thing would actually be less ironic than this ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-minister.html

I'm starting to think there's a Tory conspiracy aiming for a Yes vote.

Vulnerable people could lose their benefits - says tory



for your neck



Highly recommended by Rod Petrie

[JimBHibees]

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So if Scotland is independent will Blair and his like not intervene in the Middle East? Course not. It was the Scottish MPs that stopped cameron bombing Syria. Without the Scots the UK and USA would have bombed Syria. I'd rather stop it than say it happened but not in my name. It's crucial that we continue to influence UK and western foreign policy. But we can only do that by having Scots at Westminster. Before any starts about that idea failed on Iraq, I accept that, but let's ensure no further unnecessary wars take place

So Iraq is just brushed under the carpet, good one. The most shameful decision a UK government has made in my lifetime and even more ironic that it was so well supported by the vast majority of Labour MP's now telling us how wonderful the UK and Westminster is for Scotland.

[EH54]

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So if Scotland is independent will Blair and his like not intervene in the Middle East? Course not. It was the Scottish MPs that stopped cameron bombing Syria. Without the Scots the UK and USA would have bombed Syria. I'd rather stop it than say it happened but not in my name. It's crucial that we continue to influence UK and western foreign policy. But we can only do that by having Scots at Westminster. Before any starts about that idea failed on Iraq, I accept that, but let's ensure no further unnecessary wars take place

Nonsense we played our part i agree but had Liberals and the Conservatives not had MP's who rebelled against there leaders and backed no military strike it would have went ahead with or without Scottish MP Votes. This is why when the overwhelming majority off Scottish MP's oppose something its still enforced unless we get backing from Mp's south off the border whose interest in Scotland is minuscule.

[Beefster]

This thread has turned into a cycle of:

- Some lonely soul (generally, Lucky these days) makes a point that might be pro-No or may only be remotely questioning of independence.

- A variety of Yes-supporters trash said poster. A few trying to address the point, some posting links to pro-independence websites and the rest just mocking the poster/points.

- A succession of links, smilies and "good post" to reinforce the fact that the questioner was wrong.

You guys know what a 'circle jerk' is, right?

[Alex Trager]

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This thread has turned into a cycle of:

- Some lonely soul (generally, Lucky these days) makes a point that might be pro-No or may only be remotely questioning of independence.

- A variety of Yes-supporters trash said poster. A few trying to address the point, some posting links to pro-independence websites and the rest just mocking the poster/points.

- A succession of links, smilies and "good post" to reinforce the fact that the questioner was wrong.

You guys know what a 'circle jerk' is, right?

What are people to do when very few people are bringing up points from the no camp? They can only answer these queries/ try and refute these claims whatever.
I'm sure these guys are actually enjoying the fact that the amount of no voters are demonising on this site.

Why don't you bring up a topic that is debate worthy?

[Moulin Yarns]

Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland to be given equal status in the UK as .......















CORNWALL

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-27132035

You really couldn't make that up!!!!

[Just Alf]

RAF fighter jets scrambled to investigate Russian planes

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27130125

apparently happened 8 times last year.... I wonder why it's only now that it's being shared?

[Future17]

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RAF fighter jets scrambled to investigate Russian planes

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27130125

apparently happened 8 times last year.... I wonder why it's only now that it's being shared?

These incidents are reported from time to time but, given there basically is no story, only really when it's a slow news day.

It's only made the news now because of the Russia/Ukraine situation.

[marinello59]

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Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland to be given equal status in the UK as .....


CORNWALL

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-27132035

You really couldn't make that up!!!!

So it's Ok for Scots to take pride in their unique cultural identity but we should sneer at our fellow Celts in Cornwall for doing the same. The Cornish have long seen themselves as 'separate' from the rest of England.

[Just Alf]

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These incidents are reported from time to time but, given there basically is no story, only really when it's a slow news day.

It's only made the news now because of the Russia/Ukraine situation.

I know where you're coming from ..... Can't help thinking its a wee bit fortuitous timing wise this time around. Mind you both sides will use whatever comes around to help push their argument.

[Moulin Yarns]

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So it's Ok for Scots to take pride in their unique cultural identity but we should sneer at our fellow Celts in Cornwall for doing the same. The Cornish have long seen themselves as 'separate' from the rest of England.

I'm not sneering at the Cornish, I'm just astonished that Scotland will be permitted the same status as Cornwall (by the Westminster Government), in the same year that Scotland will vote whether to become an independent, seperate nation

[marinello59]

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I'm not sneering at the Cornish, I'm just astonished that Scotland will be permitted the same status as Cornwall (by the Westminster Government), in the same year that Scotland will vote whether to become an independent, seperate nation

Eh? Have you actually read the story? The story isn't about the Scots, it's about the Cornish. They are being granted the same legal minority status as the Scots currently have. What is wrong with that? If you think that they are undeserving of that status and you aren't sneering at them, what is the problem?

[lucky]

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This thread has turned into a cycle of:

- Some lonely soul (generally, Lucky these days) makes a point that might be pro-No or may only be remotely questioning of independence.

- A variety of Yes-supporters trash said poster. A few trying to address the point, some posting links to pro-independence websites and the rest just mocking the poster/points.

- A succession of links, smilies and "good post" to reinforce the fact that the questioner was wrong.

You guys know what a 'circle jerk' is, right?

Your spot on. I generally pop into this thread just to how it's going. Originally it was fairly balanced but now it's shout down the no supporters. But what does interest me is how the poll on here is so out of sync with all other polls on the independence. It would appear that Hibs support is more inclined to support separation based on this. Not sure what other fans websites are saying.

[marinello59]

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Your spot on. I generally pop into this thread just to how it's going. Originally it was fairly balanced but now it's shout down the no supporters. But what does interest me is how the poll on here is so out of sync with all other polls on the independence. It would appear that Hibs support is more inclined to support separation based on this. Not sure what other fans websites are saying.

Or less likely to voice their support for a No Vote on here. I would guess that the Hibs support as a whole are like the Scottish electorate, split roughly 50 -50.

[EH54]

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Your spot on. I generally pop into this thread just to how it's going. Originally it was fairly balanced but now it's shout down the no supporters. But what does interest me is how the poll on here is so out of sync with all other polls on the independence. It would appear that Hibs support is more inclined to support Independence based on this. Not sure what other fans websites are saying.

Someone i know is doing a poll on all other social media website and forums for individual football teams so when i get the results ill post them here. I love a good Poll and its good to see majority here have voted yes and on other polls i have seen but on the other hand Polls aren't always accurate which is why i don't tend to bother who has more votes until the results are declared

[green glory]

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Your spot on. I generally pop into this thread just to how it's going. Originally it was fairly balanced but now it's shout down the no supporters. But what does interest me is how the poll on here is so out of sync with all other polls on the independence. It would appear that Hibs support is more inclined to support separation based on this. Not sure what other fans websites are saying.

Most other fans forums are on a par with here. With one obvious exception.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Eh? Have you actually read the story? The story isn't about the Scots, it's about the Cornish. They are being granted the same legal minority status as the Scots currently have. What is wrong with that? If you think that they are undeserving of that status and you aren't sneering at them, what is the problem?

Sorry Marinello, Of course I read it, maybe I needed to splash a few smillies around when I turned the story on its head to suggest that Scotland would have parity with a county in the south west of England. Maybe, but I didn't. What the Cornish will still be denied by the UK Government is any devolved governance like that suggested by COSLA for Scotland, while other devolved nations within the UK are proposing a reduction in local governance, by reducing the number of Local Authorities.

I recommend reading Blossom, by Lesley Riddoch.

[ronaldo7]

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This thread has turned into a cycle of:

- Some lonely soul (generally, Lucky these days) makes a point that might be pro-No or may only be remotely questioning of independence.

- A variety of Yes-supporters trash said poster. A few trying to address the point, some posting links to pro-independence websites and the rest just mocking the poster/points.

- A succession of links, smilies and "good post" to reinforce the fact that the questioner was wrong.

You guys know what a 'circle jerk' is, right?

Jeezo, people are surely allowed to question a poster who makes this claim" It was the Scottish MPs that stopped cameron bombing Syria".

I've asked two questions on the subject, maybe I should have asked one this week and one next week.

Seems people only want to make claims but are not prepared to back up the claim with evidence.

[marinello59]

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Sorry Marinello, Of course I read it, maybe I needed to splash a few smillies around when I turned the story on its head to suggest that Scotland would have parity with a county in the south west of England. Maybe, but I didn't. What the Cornish will still be denied by the UK Government is any devolved governance like that suggested by COSLA for Scotland, while other devolved nations within the UK are proposing a reduction in local governance, by reducing the number of Local Authorities.

I recommend reading Blossom, by Lesley Riddoch.

I read it recently and it is an absolutely superb book. It did nothing but strengthen my belief that voting Yes will prove to be the starting point for a much better Scotland.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Or less likely to voice their support for a No Vote on here. I would guess that the Hibs support as a whole are like the Scottish electorate, split roughly 50 -50.

Yes has stronger support among men than women (men Y +1, women N +7) and the strongest Yes age segment is 25-34 (Y +3), so I guess football forums ought to be fairly fertile Yes territory. (Figures from latest ICM poll for the Scotsman.)