Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[Glory Lurker]

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Who owns the stadium ?

Hearts do.

[Jamesie]

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Hearts do.

Do they own it outright i.e. without any mortgage?

[BarneyK]

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;3954014]

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I don't.

It's in line with the inability of the MSM to ask the important questions.

http://threedeevision.blogspot.co.uk...-just-ask.html

Aye but - putting aside how generally off the mark he is - why is Neil Patey suggesting that should the CVA be agreed it'll then be plain sailing? You would think he would know what may be lurking in the background.

[hibbymick]

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hmfc(ia)

I would never have known

[CropleyWasGod]

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Do they own it outright i.e. without any mortgage?

They have a security on it of £6.8m.

They do own it, though.

[CropleyWasGod]

[QUOTE=BarneyK;3954040]

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Aye but - putting aside how generally off the mark he is - why is Neil Patey suggesting that should the CVA be agreed it'll then be plain sailing? You would think he would know what may be lurking in the background.

Why would he, though?

It hasn't been reported in the Scottish MSM, only Bloomberg AFAIK. Bloomberg... one of THE financial media outlets in the world.

I'm not a fan, as you can tell.

[lapsedhibee]

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Bloomberg

Bitter hobos.

[BarneyK]

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Bitter hobos.

[EastCalderHibby]

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Tynie was in the blast zone when Cala were coughing up millions for it. Weird.

Still, now that the distillers are going to remove the dngerous aspects away Tynie's price will sky rocket. BOOM!

could someone let the liths know this

[brog]

Willie Miller & Michael Stewart both talked tonight as if Yams were doomed. Interestingly, in the little I heard neither expressed much sympathy for Yams predicament. Similarly in today's DR 4/4 letter writers basically said GIRFUY to Yams, so much for this love for them from other teams.

[Rocky]

Something about recent goings on didn't add up to me i.e. it seems that it's UBIG that's trying to put a spanner in the works yet their 50% holding really is worthless if HMFC are liquidated.

However I hadn't realised that UBIG were actually the majority shareholder in UKIO. So, effectively, their major creditor (Saulius?) is pulling the strings of both UBIG and UKIO. This makes sense of a few comments that have been made that say that the UKIO and UBIG shares have been combined for negotiation purposes.

So, how's this for a scenario:
- UKIO admins provisionally agree the CVA (UBIG abstain)
- Subsequently UBIG admins get it together, the state insurance thing works its way through, and Saulius emerge as the major creditor
- Saulius doesn't fancy the look of the whole cosy CVA arrangement
- Saulius pulls rank on the whole thing as it thinks it can get more for the land on the open market

Does that add up or is the shareholding of UBIG in UKIO irrelevant now that UKIO is being wound up?

[Gus Fring]

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Do they own it outright i.e. without any mortgage?

Mortgage? It's almost as old as the castle!

[Waxy]

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Something about recent goings on didn't add up to me i.e. it seems that it's UBIG that's trying to put a spanner in the works yet their 50% holding really is worthless if HMFC are liquidated.

However I hadn't realised that UBIG were actually the majority shareholder in UKIO. So, effectively, their major creditor (Saulius?) is pulling the strings of both UBIG and UKIO. This makes sense of a few comments that have been made that say that the UKIO and UBIG shares have been combined for negotiation purposes.

So, how's this for a scenario:
- UKIO admins provisionally agree the CVA (UBIG abstain)
- Subsequently UBIG admins get it together, the state insurance thing works its way through, and Saulius emerge as the major creditor
- Saulius doesn't fancy the look of the whole cosy CVA arrangement
- Saulius pulls rank on the whole thing as it thinks it can get more for the land on the open market

Does that add up or is the shareholding of UBIG in UKIO irrelevant now that UKIO is being wound up?

thats it.Two paracetamols and off to bed early.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Something about recent goings on didn't add up to me i.e. it seems that it's UBIG that's trying to put a spanner in the works yet their 50% holding really is worthless if HMFC are liquidated.

However I hadn't realised that UBIG were actually the majority shareholder in UKIO. So, effectively, their major creditor (Saulius?) is pulling the strings of both UBIG and UKIO. This makes sense of a few comments that have been made that say that the UKIO and UBIG shares have been combined for negotiation purposes.

So, how's this for a scenario:
- UKIO admins provisionally agree the CVA (UBIG abstain)
- Subsequently UBIG admins get it together, the state insurance thing works its way through, and Saulius emerge as the major creditor
- Saulius doesn't fancy the look of the whole cosy CVA arrangement
- Saulius pulls rank on the whole thing as it thinks it can get more for the land on the open market

Does that add up or is the shareholding of UBIG in UKIO irrelevant now that UKIO is being wound up?

Too late for this old man....but CG said the other day that he thought SB could now be pulling the strings.

[Rocky]

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Too late for this old man....but CG said the other day that he thought SB could now be pulling the strings.

How d'you mean too late?

Also, what else can be the explanation for the two shareholdings being combined for negotiation? Or do we not believe that to be true?

[SloopJB]

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How d'you mean too late?

Also, what else can be the explanation for the two shareholdings being combined for negotiation? Or do we not believe that to be true?

Think he has clocked off his shift for tonight. Must be starting again around 02:00.

[VivaHiberña]

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Willie Miller & Michael Stewart both talked tonight as if Yams were doomed. Interestingly, in the little I heard neither expressed much sympathy for Yams predicament. Similarly in today's DR 4/4 letter writers basically said GIRFUY to Yams, so much for this love for them from other teams.

Any chance of posting a link/ photo of the paper? I'm always curious about other teams' supporters' take on all this.

[Ozyhibby]

Picked up a yam in my cab tonight and asked him how he had enjoyed the game.
He had indeed enjoyed the game but went on to tell me that he had been in hospitality and had been told stuff that was breaking his heart. Didn't get any more info than that, other than he had all his fingers crossed that something would change and they would be alright on Monday.
I was of course full of sympathy (no one tips a w******).

[HFC 0-7]

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Okay, let me work through that logic, so that you can put it to him.

By his way of thinking, the CVA is accepted and FOH pay UKIO £2.5m. At that point, what do they own? At best, 29.9% of the shares of HMFC, ie the UKIO bit. UBIG still own 49.9%.

What would the point be in that? Owning less than 30% of the shares.?

Yamanomics

Thats exactly what he is saying, basically 2.5 million and they own the pbs. He said as there is a growing concern that liquidation will happen, they could find themselves in the bottom tier with no stadium. If there is no chance of getting those 50% shares, and a worry that liquidation could take time and raise the price of the pbs beyond 2.5 million it does make sense!

[Criswell]

I think it is safe to assume that no-one on this thread is an expert on Lithuanian company law. I still think it it odd that the question of frozen shares has never been raised directlly with BDO in all the press conjecture. On one hand you could surmise that it is obviously not an issue, on the other, why have BDO not kicked the idea into touch? It remains for me the elephant in the room.

[gorgie greens]

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I think it is safe to assume that no-one on this thread is an expert on Lithuanian company law. I still think it it odd that the question of frozen shares has never been raised directlly with BDO in all the press conjecture. On one hand you could surmise that it is obviously not an issue, on the other, why have BDO not kicked the idea into touch? It remains for me the elephant in the room.

BDO have to do everything they can to keep HMFC going and try to get the CVA approved and only if the CVA is kicked in to touch by the Lith's or they are unable to get the frozen shares (Portsmouth situation)or more importantly they run out of money .
The way things are going I think the lack of funds could seal there destiny,

[Caversham Green]

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I think it is safe to assume that no-one on this thread is an expert on Lithuanian company law. I still think it it odd that the question of frozen shares has never been raised directlly with BDO in all the press conjecture. On one hand you could surmise that it is obviously not an issue, on the other, why have BDO not kicked the idea into touch? It remains for me the elephant in the room.

I think it has been mentioned by BDO on numerous occasions, it's just that they don't use the term 'frozen', instead they talk about getting the transfer ratified by the court. I would doubt if that's a standard practice in Lithuania or anywhere else since it would produce a significant logjam in all non-contentious cases.

As to how easy or difficult it would be to get the ratification, I doubt if anyone really knows since it would depend on a court hearing but there's no point in BDO making it an issue at this stage since there are serious doubts about whether it will ever get to the stage of applying for ratification.

[Caversham Green]

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Something about recent goings on didn't add up to me i.e. it seems that it's UBIG that's trying to put a spanner in the works yet their 50% holding really is worthless if HMFC are liquidated.

However I hadn't realised that UBIG were actually the majority shareholder in UKIO. So, effectively, their major creditor (Saulius?) is pulling the strings of both UBIG and UKIO. This makes sense of a few comments that have been made that say that the UKIO and UBIG shares have been combined for negotiation purposes.

So, how's this for a scenario:
- UKIO admins provisionally agree the CVA (UBIG abstain)
- Subsequently UBIG admins get it together, the state insurance thing works its way through, and Saulius emerge as the major creditor
- Saulius doesn't fancy the look of the whole cosy CVA arrangement
- Saulius pulls rank on the whole thing as it thinks it can get more for the land on the open market

Does that add up or is the shareholding of UBIG in UKIO irrelevant now that UKIO is being wound up?

As SergeyWasBajilions says, I made a similar comment on the PM board. My take on it was:

- We know that both Ukio and UBIG owe substantial amounts to Saulius.
- The 'good' bits of Ukio were transferred to Saulius. That might include a call on the PBS security since land is one of the safest securities you can get and the £6.8m was presumably the market value at the time the security was raised.
- It's possible that Saulius don't hold enough of Ukio's total debt to influence the outcome of a vote, but it seems they do have enough of UBIG's.
- Thus, Saulius would block the sale of UBIG's shares and force liquidation of HoMFC (IA). In doing that they would lose a share of the £50k (or £100k) but gain a share of the correct market value of the PBS - if my second point is correct they'd gain the full £6.8m if it was sold for more than that.

I'm not saying that's how it is but it does seem like a possible scenario to me.

[Craig_in_Prague]

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As SergeyWasBajilions says, I made a similar comment on the PM board. My take on it was:

- We know that both Ukio and UBIG owe substantial amounts to Saulius.
- The 'good' bits of Ukio were transferred to Saulius. That might include a call on the PBS security since land is one of the safest securities you can get and the £6.8m was presumably the market value at the time the security was raised.
- It's possible that Saulius don't hold enough of Ukio's total debt to influence the outcome of a vote, but it seems they do have enough of UBIG's.
- Thus, Saulius would block the sale of UBIG's shares and force liquidation of HoMFC (IA). In doing that they would lose a share of the £50k (or £100k) but gain a share of the correct market value of the PBS - if my second point is correct they'd gain the full £6.8m if it was sold for more than that.

I'm not saying that's how it is but it does seem like a possible scenario to me.

Sounds lovely jubbly.

[Weststandwanab]

CG I think you are spot on and that is where the game is going unless there is a major U turn on Monday in Lithland.

Personally I do outthink there will be because the Liths know there is every chance the "court will not ratify the transfer" or plug the Micro Wave.

[Onion]

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I think it has been mentioned by BDO on numerous occasions, it's just that they don't use the term 'frozen', instead they talk about getting the transfer ratified by the court. I would doubt if that's a standard practice in Lithuania or anywhere else since it would produce a significant logjam in all non-contentious cases.

As to how easy or difficult it would be to get the ratification, I doubt if anyone really knows since it would depend on a court hearing but there's no point in BDO making it an issue at this stage since there are serious doubts about whether it will ever get to the stage of applying for ratification.

The problem with BDO's language is that "ratified by the courts" sounds like a quick, simple, routine, rubber stamp job. All the concern/effort/emphasis has been on getting the CVA approved with the clear impression it would be green lights all the way after that for Budgie to take control. IMHO the term "frozen" creates a completely different perception.

With just days of cash left, I'd be astonished if BDO have misjudged the court ratification process or know that they've almost no chance of getting the shares unfrozen. If that's the case, at this stage, BDO get what they deserve. Yes, they will have done their job, but IMHO they will also have misled Hearts fans by not being open/honest about the court approval hurdle.

[Mr White]

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Yes, they will have done their job, but IMHO they will also have misled Hearts fans by not being open/honest about the court approval hurdle.

So it's win win then shiny gold stars for BDO

[Onion]

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CG I think you are spot on and that is where the game is going unless there is a major U turn on Monday in Lithland.

Personally I do outthink there will be because the Liths know there is every chance the "court will not ratify the transfer" or plug the Micro Wave.

If the Liths know that, and BDO are cosy with the Lith Admins, why are BDO not making more of the court hurdle to manage expectations. The impression BDO has created is that the CVA approval is the last major hurdle. No one is talking about the court ratification being a show-stopper... with only days of cash left in the kitty.

[greenpaper55]

C G's take on things makes a lot of sense, if there was no more cash to be had if you believe BDO then why not take it and move on ?, on the other hand if the shares are frozen why not take a punt on selling the land in the future as the only way is up for land prices in the Burgh.

[Gustavo Fring]

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Picked up a yam in my cab tonight and asked him how he had enjoyed the game.
He had indeed enjoyed the game but went on to tell me that he had been in hospitality and had been told stuff that was breaking his heart. Didn't get any more info than that, other than he had all his fingers crossed that something would change and they would be alright on Monday.
I was of course full of sympathy (no one tips a w******).

i would have said , sod the tip . locked all the doors and gave him a few verses of the hearts are going bust