Scottish Independence

[JeMeSouviens]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It's Devo Plus rather than Devo Max .

More like Devo and a wee bit if the majority of Labour MPs have anything to do with it.

[JeMeSouviens]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'll be voting no. Mainly because of my work having to shift a lot of work to England if the yes vote wins. 90% of our custom is south of the border which would be disasterous if the vote went through. I imagine there'll be a few Scottish companies thinking along the same lines.
Also, I can't see how independence is going to make things any better. We live in a stable country as it is and should be thankful for that, no need for a major shake up. Alex Salmond just doesn't have the answers on some key issues so why take a risk when there is no huge long term benefit to be had?

Personally, I think you've got that the wrong way round. I don't see much in the way of a short term benefit but in the long term I don't see how having our brightest and best concentrated and focused on our own problems rather than having to hightail it to Westminster to fulfil their ambition of actually doing something can be anything other than a good thing. The UK suffers from a ridiculous London-centric over-centralisation. We live in a faraway backwater, the predominant attitude to me seems to be pay them off and hope they'll shut up. Scotland needs fixed not bribed to keep quiet.

[JimBHibees]

Anyone watch the Andrew Marr show yesterday when Marr was trying to give a personal opinion about EU membership after the recent Barrosso comments and Salmond ripped into him about him giving his personal opinion. Thought Marr was awful especially IMO when he had previously not queried anything Barroso had said yet he felt it appropriate to try and give a personal opinion when interviewing Salmond.

BBC may as well be honest and just say they dont want a yes vote rather than this charade of neutrality. They are the media equivalent of Craig Thompson.

[JeMeSouviens]

Johann Lamont as per the Sunday Mail.

“Many people had been calling for us to bring forward a concept called devo max.
“Well, we believe this is the maximum devolution Scotland would want before the union itself starts to get picked apart and Scotland loses out.

What do you want? We'll damn well tell you what you want!

Devo plus not very much at all is my bet.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Johann Lamont as per the Sunday Mail.



What do you want? We'll damn well tell you what you want!

Devo plus not very much at all is my bet.

Can I be the first person of a certain age to raise the question "Are we not men?".

[Stonewall]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Can I be the first person of a certain age to raise the question "Are we not men?".

We are Devo.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

We are Devo.

[JeMeSouviens]

Interesting commentary on NO scaremongering from pugilistic ex-Labour MP Eric Joyce.

http://ericjoyce.co.uk/2014/02/why-i...n-eu-citizens/
http://ericjoyce.co.uk/2014/03/scotl...asty-campaign/

[#FromTheCapital]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Why "would" your employer have to shift its work?

Surely, as at present, it would make a decision on its base on commercial grounds.

We are a small business based in Edinburgh, shipping goods across the uk, mainly England. If the yes vote wins then 90% of our business becomes export, making it harder for the customer to buy from us and probably more expensive for us to ship. We're in a competitive market and our customers could simply switch to an English based competitor to make life easier for themselves. We're growing and the plan was to move to a bigger premise in Edinburgh but that's been put on hold until after the vote. If it's a yes vote we're buying a place down South and moving the goods and dispatch there.

[lucky]

Eric Joyce is a fool and embarrassment of an MP. But he does make a case on border controls. But I can't accept that the No campaign is any less negative than the Yes campaign. As for Labours Devo commission I think many will be surprised by its content. It sets out why certain powers should devolved and explains the argument for retain powers at Westminster.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

We are a small business based in Edinburgh, shipping goods across the uk, mainly England. If the yes vote wins then 90% of our business becomes export, making it harder for the customer to buy from us and probably more expensive for us to ship. We're in a competitive market and our customers could simply switch to an English based competitor to make life easier for themselves. We're growing and the plan was to move to a bigger premise in Edinburgh but that's been put on hold until after the vote. If it's a yes vote we're buying a place down South and moving the goods and dispatch there.

That makes sense if there are the so-called transaction charges to deal with.

I had a similar conversation with a client today. The point was made that, if a Scottish Government reduces tax rates, there's an incentive to stay.

[snooky]

Let's turn things on their heads.
Imagine Cameron is in Salmond's position. Scotland voters are say 80% Conservative and England are 80% Labour.
The UK is ruled by a Socialist government.
Do you think DC's views on Independence would be any different?
I just wonder

[Beefster]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Let's turn things on their heads.
Imagine Cameron is in Salmond's position. Scotland voters are say 80% Conservative and England are 80% Labour.
The UK is ruled by a Socialist government.
Do you think DC's views on Independence would be any different?
I just wonder

Sorry, what real-life scenario are you turning on its head?

Either way, your scenario assumes everyone is as cynical as you seem to be. If that was the case, Labour would be pro-independence every time they were out of power.

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Eric Joyce is a fool and embarrassment of an MP. But he does make case on border controls. But I can't accept that the No campaign is any less negative than the Yes campaign. As for Labours Devo commission I think many will be surprised by its content. It sets out why certain powers should devolved and explains the argument for retain powers at Westminster.

Really even respected Scottish Unionist politicians are now lining up to say that very thing.

[lucky]

http://s.bsd.net/scotlab/default/pag..._ram6b81bk.pdf

Labours proposed enhanced powers for Holyrood

[JeMeSouviens]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Eric Joyce is a fool and embarrassment of an MP. But he does make case on border controls. But I can't accept that the No campaign is any less negative than the Yes campaign. As for Labours Devo commission I think many will be surprised by its content. It sets out why certain powers should devolved and explains the argument for retain powers at Westminster.

I must say I am surprised. I thought even the Labour party would come up with something more than that. So much for acting boldly.

[lucky]

The full report is over 300 pages and gives an explanation of what powers labours supports devolving. It's a comprehensive response to the White paper

[ronaldo7]

We concluded that, for a variety of good reasons, VAT, national insurance contributions, corporation tax, alcohol,
tobacco and fuel duties, climate change levy, insurance premium tax, vehicle excise duty, inheritance tax, capital
gains tax and tax on oil receipts should remain reserved. However we do support, in principle, a derogation to
allow a lower rate of fuel duty to be charged in remote rural areas of the Highlands and Islands.

They need our cash.

Air passenger duty pumped into the long grass too.

Our interim report considered whether there was scope for devolution of air passenger duty, subject
particularly to EU rules. We received a number of considered representations, and continue to note that
departures from Highlands and Islands airports are already exempt from this tax. Given the pressure
to reduce this tax from airlines and others and the risk of tax competition which would be created, we
are not now convinced that devolution should be progressed until further consideration is given to the
environmental impact and how else this tax might be reformedAir passenger Dut


Here's what they said earlier
Air passenger Duty

Calman Commission final report, June 2009:

RECOMMENDATION 3.2: Stamp Duty Land Tax, Aggregates Levy, Landfill Tax and Air Passenger Duty should be devolved to the Scottish Parliament, again with a corresponding reduction in the block grant.

Scottish Labour Devolution Commission – interim report, April 2013

Providing that the application of different rates of air passenger duty in Scotland to the rest of the UK did not contravene EU law, and it could be shown that any associated administrative and economic issues could be overcome, we believe that there is a strong case that air passenger duty should be devolved. (p 9)


Labours previous "Commitments" on tax powers in their interim report. Looks like the Big party boys in Westminster have put Johanne in her place.

Previous commitments on tax powers

Income tax

Scottish Labour Devolution Commission – interim report, April 2013

“Income tax is clearly the best candidate for further devolution. It raises enough revenue to make a significant increase in the proportion of the Scottish Budget accounted for by the Parliament’s own resources (closing some of the “fiscal gap”). In our view, a strong case exists for devolving income tax in full, and we are minded to do so. We do, however, wish to consult widely on this issue. The advantage of devolving income tax – a revenue stream that provides a substantial, stable tax yield – is that it would provide a broader range of fiscal choices, enhancing accountability and responsibility for decisions made by the Scottish Parliament on taxation and public expenditure. It would also enable the Scottish Government to make the tax system more progressive. However, we would not want to devolve income tax in a way which would increase the administrative burden on employers, and indeed on individuals”

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

http://s.bsd.net/scotlab/default/pag..._ram6b81bk.pdf

Labours proposed enhanced powers for Holyrood

Did they mention any of this at the last Holyrood elections?

[marinello59]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Did they mention any of this at the last Holyrood elections?

We wanted the No side tell us what would happen if we voted No. Looks like they have done that. Shouldn't they have.
It will take me a while to digest that. Initial impressions aren't too good though.

[lucky]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Did they mention any of this at the last Holyrood elections?

None of it was part of the manifesto. This is Labours proposals for further devolved powers. Come 2016 the SLP will produce a full manifesto for the Holyrood elections.

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

We wanted the No side tell us what would happen if we voted No. Looks like they have done that. Shouldn't they have.
It will take me a while to digest that. Initial impressions aren't too good though.

This isnt the No side though this is the Labour party who arent in a position to decide otherwise and it appears until recently that they hadnt considered any of these increased devolved powers they now say they are keen on. Was it Blair that called the Scottish Parliament a 'Parish council'?

[ronaldo7]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

None of it was part of the manifesto. This is Labours proposals for further devolved powers. Come 2016 the SLP will produce a full manifesto for the Holyrood elections.

And if the 2015 General Election is won by the Tories, can you tell me how many of the proposals will come to fruition?

[marinello59]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

This isnt the No side though this is the Labour party who arent in a position to decide otherwise and it appears until recently that they hadnt considered any of these increased devolved powers they now say they are keen on. Was it Blair that called the Scottish Parliament a 'Parish council'?

Would you also argue that much of the White Paper isn't the Yes side but is SNP policy? I don't really care what Blair said in a sound bite, his Government actually delivered devolution. Just a pity that they didn't really understand the reality of it once they had.
What do you think of the actual proposals? I assume you have had time to go them in detail, it will take me a while to consider them but at least it's something worthy of considering. It will be interesting to see what the Tories come out with because I suspect they may go even further.

[Glory Lurker]

Possibly another huge boost for the Yes campaign? - is the font used on today's "6 months" signage the same as the one used on the "Rangers FC" sign on the Govan stand roof at Ibrox?

[lucky]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

And if the 2015 General Election is won by the Tories, can you tell me how many of the proposals will come to fruition?

None but as you've belittled them you won't be bothered. The Tories are going to publish their proposals in the next couple of months but god knows what they will come up with.

[JeMeSouviens]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Would you also argue that much of the White Paper isn't the Yes side but is SNP policy? I don't really care what Blair said in a sound bite, his Government actually delivered devolution. Just a pity that they didn't really understand the reality of it once they had.
What do you think of the actual proposals? I assume you have had time to go them in detail, it will take me a while to consider them but at least it's something worthy of considering. It will be interesting to see what the Tories come out with because I suspect they may go even further.

It strikes me as over-complicated tinkering around the margins. Very Gordon Brown, wonder how much of a hand he had in this?

The Lib Dem proposals from old Ming the not especially Merciless seem much more coherent but unfortunately their Tory dalliance has left them looking like electoral snowballs in hell.

[Beefster]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

And if the 2015 General Election is won by the Tories, can you tell me how many of the proposals will come to fruition?

How many of the SNP promises will come to fruition if Labour win the first post-independence election?

[lucky]

Another blow to the SNPs plans to cut corporation tax
http://m.scotsman.com/news/politics/...ce=twitterfeed

[JimBHibees]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Would you also argue that much of the White Paper isn't the Yes side but is SNP policy? I don't really care what Blair said in a sound bite, his Government actually delivered devolution. Just a pity that they didn't really understand the reality of it once they had.
What do you think of the actual proposals? I assume you have had time to go them in detail, it will take me a while to consider them but at least it's something worthy of considering. It will be interesting to see what the Tories come out with because I suspect they may go even further.

No I havent just very cynical of these new plans being raised which appear to be on the hoof.