Scottish Independence

[green glory]

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Not defending Cameron. Just stating a fact. Darling is the leader of the recognised No campaign. Just like he is of the yes one. So it would make perfect sense for a tv debate between them. Cameron has no vote in the referendum. Only reason the mats want a debate with cameron is make the referendum about Scotland v the Tories. Sadly the *******ised offer on the table is not independence but a mixed up mess which leaves Scots with less control of its destiny.

Alex Salmond isn't the leader of the Yes campaign.

[marinello59]

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Alex Salmond isn't the leader of the Yes campaign.

Apart from the fact the main reason the party he leads exists is to push for Independence. And the fact that the Government he leads introduced the referendum bill. And also produced the White Paper to argue the case for Independence. And that the vast majority of people would identify him as the leader of the Yes campaign. I hope you are not going to claim that the real leader is Blair Jenkins.

[southfieldhibby]

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Alex Salmond isn't the leader of the Yes campaign.

course he is.Lets be sensible here.

Salmond is leader of Yes and Cameron is leader of BT...Darling and Jenkins do as they're told.

[J-C]

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It's very clear Scotland would need to have its own currency. The present leaders of the rUK have stated they won't support a currency union. The problem for a independent Scotland is that a new currency would be worthless, especially if she refuses to accept a share of the debts. But an even bigger problem is that refusing to take a share of debts will lead to Scotland not getting a share of assets. If this scenario happens then the majority of the white paper promises collapse as there is not the money there to do most of it. As it will be needed to start up the countries services.

Demanding a currency union and threatening not to take a share of the debt is lessening the argument for independence.

We've always had our own currency, just wish people would read more ??

The pound Scots (Modern Scots: Pund Scots, Middle Scots: Pund Scottis) was the unit of currency in the Kingdom of Scotland before the kingdom unified with the Kingdom of England in 1707. It was introduced by David I, in the 12th century, on the model of English and French money, divided into 20 shillings, each of 12 pence. The Scottish currency was later debased relative to sterling and, by the time of James III, the pound sterling was valued at four pounds Scots.
In addition to the pound Scots, silver coins were issued denominated in merk, worth 13 shillings 4 pence (two-thirds of a pound Scots). WhenJames VI became King James I of England in 1603, the coinage was reformed to closely match that of England, with 12 pounds Scots equal to the pound sterling. In 1707, the pound Scots was replaced by the pound sterling at a rate of 12 to 1, although the pound Scots continued to be used in Scotland as a unit of account for most of the 18th century.
Today there is no distinct Pound Scots; but Scotland's three largest clearing banks (the Royal Bank of Scotland, the Bank of Scotland and theClydesdale Bank) still print paper pound notes. These notes may be accepted as payment throughout the United Kingdom, but are much more commonly seen in Scotland; they represent the same Pound Sterling value as do Bank of England notes in England and Wales.

[marinello59]

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course he is.Lets be sensible here.

Salmond is leader of Yes and Cameron is leader of BT...Darling and Jenkins do as they're told.

The Better Together campaign is lead and run by Scottish based politicians as it should be. I may disagree with them but that can't be denied.

[southfieldhibby]

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The Better Together campaign is lead and run by Scottish based politicians as it should be. I may disagree with them but that can't be denied.

So they're autonomous from Westminster?Who put Carmichael in place?

they're ran by the govt.

[One Day Soon]

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So they're autonomous from Westminster?Who put Carmichael in place?

they're ran by the govt.

That's just wrong too.

What's your evidence for this claim? A question we seem to have to ask Yes campaigners an awful lot these days.

[marinello59]

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So they're autonomous from Westminster?Who put Carmichael in place?

they're ran by the govt.

So the Better Together campaign is all an English Tory plot? Wow. Do you think that the BT campaigners are incapable of thinking for themselves.

[RyeSloan]

Project fear....classy stuff from the SNP.

Despite the drum banging I don't see the problem with what the treasury paper is allegedly going to state. Currency unions can't work without a high degree of cooperation between the participants in terms of tax, budgets and cross border transfers.

The euro zone travails show very well what happens when those types of controls are not in place...sure it might not be so pronounced to start with in a Pound version as the economies are more similar than say Greece v Germany but the technical difficulties are still there.

It all smacks of a complete lack of understanding of these and other significant questions from the politicians that have set us down the road to this vote. To blithely suggest it must happen because it's in the other parties best interest without fully addressing the issues such an agreement would have on the other party could be seen as slightly rude.

I've said it before but I'll say it again....independence as a concept is a good one, the half arsed, half baked proposal being muted here is not.

[yeezus.]

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I'm not sure they have actually said this yet?Lots of nods and winks suggesting this, but not one firm statement of this intent?Just like not one firm intent from SNP leadership they'd refuse the debt burden if no currency union.

Which brings it back to the point were they should all stop talking ***** and come out with firm and definitive answers.

The Welsh first minister has.

[Beefster]

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I) RBS is a dysfunction and insolvent publicly funded company, already headquartered in London. If they want to "leave", we should be glad to get shot of them.

RBS HQ is in Edinburgh (St Andrews Square or Gogarburn).

Given that they are a major employer in Scotland, I'm fairly sure that 'we' (and the thousands that they employ in Scotland) wouldn't be glad to get shot of them.

[Glory Lurker]

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The Welsh first minister has.

It may well come to pass that Osbrone, Alexander and Balls will tomorrow/on Friday say "no nae never". That will be legitimate news. However, what the Welsh FM has to say is of absolutely no relevance whatsoever, and I do have to wonder why he's being rolled out again to come out with this line. Why is he being given any attention? Did the Welsh devolution settlement give Cardiff a veto on UK economic policy???? Will the Office of the Mayor of London rule it out, too? What about Hull City Council?

[lucky]

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We've always had our own currency, just wish people would read more ??

The pound Scots (Modern Scots: Pund Scots, Middle Scots: Pund Scottis) was the unit of currency in the Kingdom of Scotland before the kingdom unified with the Kingdom of England in 1707. It was introduced by David I, in the 12th century, on the model of English and French money, divided into 20 shillings, each of 12 pence. The Scottish currency was later debased relative to sterling and, by the time of James III, the pound sterling was valued at four pounds Scots.
In addition to the pound Scots, silver coins were issued denominated in merk, worth 13 shillings 4 pence (two-thirds of a pound Scots). WhenJames VI became King James I of England in 1603, the coinage was reformed to closely match that of England, with 12 pounds Scots equal to the pound sterling. In 1707, the pound Scots was replaced by the pound sterling at a rate of 12 to 1, although the pound Scots continued to be used in Scotland as a unit of account for most of the 18th century.
Today there is no distinct Pound Scots; but Scotland's three largest clearing banks (the Royal Bank of Scotland, the Bank of Scotland and theClydesdale Bank) still print paper pound notes. These notes may be accepted as payment throughout the United Kingdom, but are much more commonly seen in Scotland; they represent the same Pound Sterling value as do Bank of England notes in England and Wales.

But scots notes are not widely accepted through out England or the rest of the world. If Scotland want independence we must have our own currency. The euro has been a disaster for most countries. Currency unions don't work but it's worse when you try to use a currency of another country without agreement

[yeezus.]

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It may well come to pass that Osbrone, Alexander and Balls will tomorrow/on Friday say "no nae never". That will be legitimate news. However, what the Welsh FM has to say is of absolutely no relevance whatsoever, and I do have to wonder why he's being rolled out again to come out with this line. Why is he being given any attention? Did the Welsh devolution settlement give Cardiff a veto on UK economic policy???? Will the Office of the Mayor of London rule it out, too? What about Hull City Council?

I didn't mean to upset anyone, I was just replying to a previous post.

I guess he is being given attention cause the BBC are a bunch of London-based unionist mouthpieces.

[Glory Lurker]

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I didn't mean to upset anyone, I was just replying to a previous post.

I guess he is being given attention cause the BBC are a bunch of London-based unionist mouthpieces.

Ah, now you're talking. There is hope for you yet, young Skywalker!

[J-C]

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But scots notes are not widely accepted through out England or the rest of the world. If Scotland want independence we must have our own currency. The euro has been a disaster for most countries. Currency unions don't work but it's worse when you try to use a currency of another country without agreement

Therein lies a lot of the problems when our pound isn't even recognised in England even when it's the exact same as the Bank of England ones. We have notes already being produced so where's the problem?

[Sylar]

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Therein lies a lot of the problems when our pound isn't even recognised in England even when it's the exact same as the Bank of England ones. We have notes already being produced so where's the problem?

Perhaps this was a widespread problem once upon a time but no more. You'll get the odd person who won't accept them but I've not experienced it anytime recently.

And besides - if all else fails, the automated tills at Tesco and the like don't discriminate

[RyeSloan]

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Therein lies a lot of the problems when our pound isn't even recognised in England even when it's the exact same as the Bank of England ones. We have notes already being produced so where's the problem?

Technically they are not exactly the same as BoE notes. I'm sure they are not 'legal tender'.

A technicality for sure but there is a Mia conception that they are the same when actually they are not.

[Scouse Hibee]

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Perhaps this was a widespread problem once upon a time but no more. You'll get the odd person who won't accept them but I've not experienced it anytime recently.

And besides - if all else fails, the automated tills at Tesco and the like don't discriminate

A massive problem in my experience (Liverpool, Chester, North Wales), so much so that I don't even bother with the hassle anymore and just use an ATM in Liverpool rather than take Scottish notes with me.

[J-C]

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Technically they are not exactly the same as BoE notes. I'm sure they are not 'legal tender'.

A technicality for sure but there is a Mia conception that they are the same when actually they are not.

Jeez I really cannot believe just how ignorant you actually sound by saying that, it's this kind of attitude that makes many Scots want a separate parliament again.


I refer you my earlier post about the Scottish pound, in fact all bank notes in Britain are not legal tender in Scotland, only coins are.
These notes may be accepted as payment throughout the United Kingdom, but are much more commonly seen in Scotland; they represent the same Pound Sterling value as do Bank of England notes in England and Wales.

Whilst banknotes issued by the Scottish banks are legal currency, that is approved by the UK Parliament, no banknotes issued by Scottish banks, Northern Ireland banks nor the Bank of England are legal tender in Scotland. Thus legal tender in Scotland is limited to coin as noted above.

So technically I can refuse to take English notes when they visit Edinburgh, would love to see their faces when I tell them payment for their taxi fare is coins only

[CropleyWasGod]

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Jeez I really cannot believe just how ignorant you actually sound by saying that, it's this kind of attitude that makes many Scots want a separate parliament again.


I refer you my earlier post about the Scottish pound, in fact all bank notes in Britain are not legal tender in Scotland, only coins are.
These notes may be accepted as payment throughout the United Kingdom, but are much more commonly seen in Scotland; they represent the same Pound Sterling value as do Bank of England notes in England and Wales.

Whilst banknotes issued by the Scottish banks are legal currency, that is approved by the UK Parliament, no banknotes issued by Scottish banks, Northern Ireland banks nor the Bank of England are legal tender in Scotland. Thus legal tender in Scotland is limited to coin as noted above.

So technically I can refuse to take English notes when they visit Edinburgh, would love to see their faces when I tell them payment for their taxi fare is coins only

From the BofE website.

The phrase ‘legal tender’ is a widely used expression and is a
common misnomer. The only banknotes to have legal tender
status in England and Wales are those issued by the Bank of
England. There are no banknotes issued by commercial
banks in Scotland and Northern Ireland that have legal
tender status. However, legal tender status has only a very
narrow meaning in relation to the settlement of a debt. The
term ‘legal tender’ simply means that if a debtor pays in legal
tender the exact amount they owe under the terms of a
contract, and the contract does not specify another means of
payment, the debtor has a good defence in law if he or she is
subsequently sued for non-payment of the debt. In ordinary
day-to-day transactions, the term ‘legal tender’ has very
little practical application, as whether or not an instrument
(be it a banknote or local currency voucher) is used as a
means of payment is subject only to the mutual agreement
of the parties to the transaction.
(1

From the Royal Mint website:-

Coins are legal tender throughout the United Kingdom for the following amounts:

£5 (Crown) - for any amount
£2 - for any amount
£1 - for any amount
50p - for any amount not exceeding £10
25p (Crown) - for any amount not exceeding £10
20p - for any amount not exceeding £10
10p - for any amount not exceeding £5
5p - for any amount not exceeding £5
2p - for any amount not exceeding 20p
1p - for any amount not exceeding 20p

[Hibercelona]

Other independent countries share currencies without any issues.

They would be shooting themselves in the foot by forcing us out of the currency union anyway.

[JimBHibees]

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II) Osborne is playing a political game. Mark Carney has already stated that they could find a way of arranging a currency union. As for seeking a lender of last resort that isn't your own national bank, I believe both the federal reserve of the USA and the European Central Bank put their hands in their pockets when Brown bailed out the banks.

III) Yes Scotland should be a bit braver. As unionists were celebrating the collapse of the Icelandic economy, little did they realise that a few years later, having left their dysfunctional banks go to the wall, Iceland would be back and about to launch the worlds first viable virtual currency: the aurora, they've ridden out the storm and are experiencing growth beyond that of the UK.

Fact of the matter is, that politicians on all sides should admit that if people voted Yes, they'll get on with it and make it work - like the Chairman of Barclays said the other day and to a more nuanced degree by Carney of the Bank of England.

The rest is just political manoeuvring.

Completely agree it has got to be said we are a number of months away from teh referendum and the level of reporting in my experience is appalling. The BBC Scotland news item on bbc breakfast each morning openly publicise anything remotely negative about a yes vote and have yet to mention anything remotely positive. Carney's comments werent even mentioned.

As happened previously with the 70s vote the lies and repressing of economic reports will continue under the main UK parties ably backed up by usually Labour lackies, I think it was Bruce Milland at the time.

Given our huge natural resources there is no doubt to me this small country could run itself.

[marinello59]

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Completely agree it has got to be said we are a number of months away from teh referendum and the level of reporting in my experience is appalling. The BBC Scotland news item on bbc breakfast each morning openly publicise anything remotely negative about a yes vote and have yet to mention anything remotely positive. Carney's comments werent even mentioned.

As happened previously with the 70s vote the lies and repressing of economic reports will continue under the main UK parties ably backed up by usually Labour lackies, I think it was Bruce Milland at the time.

Given our huge natural resources there is no doubt to me this small country could run itself.

Carney's comments were widely reported and discussed in detail in the media. You really couldn't escape it.

[lucky]

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Completely agree it has got to be said we are a number of months away from teh referendum and the level of reporting in my experience is appalling. The BBC Scotland news item on bbc breakfast each morning openly publicise anything remotely negative about a yes vote and have yet to mention anything remotely positive. Carney's comments werent even mentioned.

As happened previously with the 70s vote the lies and repressing of economic reports will continue under the main UK parties ably backed up by usually Labour lackies, I think it was Bruce Milland at the time.

Given our huge natural resources there is no doubt to me this small country could run itself.

No is doubting that we could run Scotland but its a choice of whether we want to or not. As for negative stories, it's all how you take it, I would rather have the facts. The 3 major parties at Westminster have said they will not be going into a currency union. That's not scare stories or negative its fact. As Scottish people we deserve to be told the truth. If some don't like that then that's tough. It's time the SNP told us there currency of choice as the sterling is no longer an opition

[JimBHibees]

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Carney's comments were widely reported and discussed in detail in the media. You really couldn't escape it.

I was talking about bbc scotland news.

[Beefster]

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Other independent countries share currencies without any issues.

They would be shooting themselves in the foot by forcing us out of the currency union anyway.

In what way?

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Carney's comments were widely reported and discussed in detail in the media. You really couldn't escape it.

Indeed. I heard about it on a UK-wide radio station, watch an article about it on UK-wide TV news and read about it in UK-wide newspapers.

[JimBHibees]

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No is doubting that we could run Scotland but its a choice of whether we want to or not. As for negative stories, it's all how you take it, I would rather have the facts. The 3 major parties at Westminster have said they will not be going into a currency union. That's not scare stories or negative its fact. As Scottish people we deserve to be told the truth. If some don't like that then that's tough. It's time the SNP told us there currency of choice as the sterling is no longer an opition

Is it a fact though? Carney has said it could be accommodated. Sounds more like a political game and if it is a decision taken are you happy your party thinks this is acceptable?

Sounds like selected facts. What about the independent reports which were suppressed in the 70's which clearly indicated how well off Scotland as an independent country would be. The fact these were suppressed with the full knowledge of a Scottish Labour Secretary. Is this acceptable?

[Just Alf]

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In what way?
.

I think the basic premise is that Scotland's GDP (I think it is?) is a bit better than rUK so is actually a strengthening force on the currency.

The other element is that Scotland is the rUK's 2nd biggest "export" market after the EU and not having a currency union will add additional transactional costs

Something like that......

[HNA2]

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Perhaps this was a widespread problem once upon a time but no more. You'll get the odd person who won't accept them but I've not experienced it anytime recently.

And besides - if all else fails, the automated tills at Tesco and the like don't discriminate

My husband woukd disagree that our notes are widely accepted in England. We spend many a sunday trying to get rid of our clydesdale bank notes as he really struggles to find anywhere that will take them wiyhout a fight