Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[Mellow Hibee]

So even if they don't go into liquidation, they have spent taxpayers and other creditors money for success on the park and aren't going to pay it back. Lets see what the kickback Jambos think of that....

Colinmaroon
SPL, "The whole basis of a financial fair play set of rules is to ensure that if there is a sporting advantage that has been obtained, you can address that through some sort of sporting sanction."

You mean like buying success with the Taxpayers money?
All these trophies bought with money stolen from the taxpayer!

The Gasman
There is no way that the ConDem government, or the Treasury, should allow HMRC to settle for pennies in the pound when services, pensions, and benefits are being cut left, right, & centre.

OldCastlerock2012
Basically all of the many creditors currently not getting paid - including public bodies, i.e. taxpayers, and fellow football clubs - are subsidising the continuation of their club. They should be immediately liquidated and told to get themselves out of the mess they got themselves into, with a newco forced to start at the bottom of the Scottish football pyramid.

Radge21
I hope Alex Salmond was trying to get our tax money back and nothing else.
I am astonished our first minister has got involved.
Political parties backing football clubs in this country is dangerous.

So many people owed money and they have no intention of giving them it back.

K1874M
What I don't get is why were we and other clubs giving them 'tick'. Even the council ffs, everyone knew they were screwed financially.

And my personal favourite..

Dexter
How many of those creditors may face financial hardship should these welts squirm into a CVA ?
It's disgusting.
I HATE them more than any other football club in the world.
Disgusting.

Oh no wait, that was what they thought of Rangers in the run up to a potential debt shedding, creditor screwing CVA. There are thousands more as well in the rangers thread talking about creditors getting cheated, tainted trophies, hospitals not built, etc. So among the (possibly premature) celebrations going on over there, I suspect that there is a little shame deep down.

[Treadstone]

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So even if they don't go into liquidation, they have spent taxpayers and other creditors money for success on the park and aren't going to pay it back. Lets see what the kickback Jambos think of that....

Colinmaroon
SPL, "The whole basis of a financial fair play set of rules is to ensure that if there is a sporting advantage that has been obtained, you can address that through some sort of sporting sanction."

You mean like buying success with the Taxpayers money?
All these trophies bought with money stolen from the taxpayer!

The Gasman
There is no way that the ConDem government, or the Treasury, should allow HMRC to settle for pennies in the pound when services, pensions, and benefits are being cut left, right, & centre.

OldCastlerock2012
Basically all of the many creditors currently not getting paid - including public bodies, i.e. taxpayers, and fellow football clubs - are subsidising the continuation of their club. They should be immediately liquidated and told to get themselves out of the mess they got themselves into, with a newco forced to start at the bottom of the Scottish football pyramid.

Radge21
I hope Alex Salmond was trying to get our tax money back and nothing else.
I am astonished our first minister has got involved.
Political parties backing football clubs in this country is dangerous.

So many people owed money and they have no intention of giving them it back.

K1874M
What I don't get is why were we and other clubs giving them 'tick'. Even the council ffs, everyone knew they were screwed financially.

And my personal favourite..

Dexter
How many of those creditors may face financial hardship should these welts squirm into a CVA ?
It's disgusting.
I HATE them more than any other football club in the world.
Disgusting.

Oh no wait, that was what they thought of Rangers in the run up to a potential debt shedding, creditor screwing CVA. There are thousands more as well in the rangers thread talking about creditors getting cheated, tainted trophies, hospitals not built, etc. So among the (possibly premature) celebrations going on over there, I suspect that there is a little shame deep down.

[Caversham Green]

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We may need to know who all voted. If you exclude the UBIG debt then UKIO makes up over 76% of whats left. I am sure Milsson are a Vlad company and that Ensco 165 (also a LT company) are now dissolved. If you exclude these three companies debts then UKIO now carry 85% on their own.

I would suspect that a large number of smaller creditors would not have wasted their time even responding as the propaganda machine has been telling all and sundry that they would get 0p and should be thankful for that.

Another thing that I think is worth noting is the obvious discrepancies between the valuations of the land and what someone is apparently willing to pay. At Ibrox the properties had a book value of well over £100m prior to administration and was sold for £1.5m to be subsequently re valued weeks later at £40m. Hearts have Tynecastle on the books at around £14m (I know this is rebuild etc) and it looks like this will be sold for around £1m when the whole deal is broken down with players contracts, brand etc. Reports suggest the property was indepently valued recently around £5.5m.

As something is really only worth what someone else will pay the examples would suggest that there is something seriously amiss between the process used by the valuer or the sales procedures of the seller. As this does not seem to happen, certainly nowhere near as extreme, in everyday property deals then is there something else worth looking at?

There's some misconception about the various property valuations - which you recognise in this post. The value in the balance sheet (£14m in the PBS's case) represents the value of the property to the business - i.e. how much it would cost from scratch to acquire and develop to its current state of disrepair. It bears no direct relationship to it's current market value, but the valuation is done by an independent surveyor so if the value is overstated the fault lies with the surveyor - that's best accounting practice, not creative accounting. The valuation that FoH had was presumably market value - i.e. what the property could reasonably be expected to fetch in its present condition. Since there's very little market for a big open-roofed s**thouse in Edinburgh the value was all in the land and took into account demolition of said latrine. The money that Ukio's administrator is accepting is not for the land though, it's a heavily-discounted settlement of the debt that HoMFC owed them. Why they are accepting that when they had the option of selling the land on the open market is beyond me.

In Rangers case there was a disgraceful exercise in creative accounting to cover the undervalue that Duff & Phelps sold the business to Sevco for. IIRC, taken to its conclusion it meant that the creditors effectively paid Sevco something like £13m to take the Rangers business name.

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A cynic writes:
A few of us have waited, so far in vain, for Duff & Duffer's role to be the subject of proper scrutiny by the authorities. I don't suppose it's in the interests of the accounting professions to point out that some of their number habitually play fast and loose with principles of honesty, integrity, etc.

It's worth pointing out that BDO and Duff & Phelps are direct competitors in what is a very dirty profession. If BDO can find fault with D&P's actions and are able to substantiate it legally they will take great pleasure in exposing it to the public.

[greenpaper55]

This bit, "I suspect that there is a little shame deep down". They have no shame ,they are just two faced cheats, plain and simple.

[jacomo]

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Jackson must have known this as he spoke. How does he think it's acceptable to stand in front of a camera and suggest otherwise? Why is there no Vince Lunny-equivalent having a word in his ear? Where is the dividing line between spinning and lying and has he crossed it?

Not for me. BJ wants to present the situation in the best possible light for him. If journalists don't press him on the most awkward questions he isn't obliged to dwell on them.

Nothing he said was untrue.

[SurferRosa]

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So even if they don't go into liquidation, they have spent taxpayers and other creditors money for success on the park and aren't going to pay it back. Lets see what the kickback Jambos think of that....

Colinmaroon
SPL, "The whole basis of a financial fair play set of rules is to ensure that if there is a sporting advantage that has been obtained, you can address that through some sort of sporting sanction."

You mean like buying success with the Taxpayers money?
All these trophies bought with money stolen from the taxpayer!

The Gasman
There is no way that the ConDem government, or the Treasury, should allow HMRC to settle for pennies in the pound when services, pensions, and benefits are being cut left, right, & centre.

OldCastlerock2012
Basically all of the many creditors currently not getting paid - including public bodies, i.e. taxpayers, and fellow football clubs - are subsidising the continuation of their club. They should be immediately liquidated and told to get themselves out of the mess they got themselves into, with a newco forced to start at the bottom of the Scottish football pyramid.

Radge21
I hope Alex Salmond was trying to get our tax money back and nothing else.
I am astonished our first minister has got involved.
Political parties backing football clubs in this country is dangerous.

So many people owed money and they have no intention of giving them it back.

K1874M
What I don't get is why were we and other clubs giving them 'tick'. Even the council ffs, everyone knew they were screwed financially.

And my personal favourite..

Dexter
How many of those creditors may face financial hardship should these welts squirm into a CVA ?
It's disgusting.
I HATE them more than any other football club in the world.
Disgusting.

Oh no wait, that was what they thought of Rangers in the run up to a potential debt shedding, creditor screwing CVA. There are thousands more as well in the rangers thread talking about creditors getting cheated, tainted trophies, hospitals not built, etc. So among the (possibly premature) celebrations going on over there, I suspect that there is a little shame deep down.

Something tells me that this post wont find itself copied and pasted onto KB....

( by the way..... )

[Onceinawhile]

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What calculations were these? And what is the "football club coefficient"?

By that I meant your likelihood that hearts were going burst.

The second part I merely meant that you were looking at it without factoring in the fact that a football club isn't a normal business. I think the assertions that You've made have been based on a normal company going into admin, and we've seen that a football club won't react the same.

[Onceinawhile]

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People like yourself have been just as at fault by continually touting a fantasy best case scenario for Hearts at every turn. If some of the more outlandish posts were to be believed, they would be preparing for a champions league campaign next season. I don't doubt the integrity of Bajilions or Sergey and their sources. They have shared information they have received, that's all, and generally not confused their own speculations with this. If this thread is so ridiculous to you, I suggest you leave it and rely on the likes of McLaughlin, Anderson and FOH spokespersons, for your info on this matter.

I've not painted that type of scenario at all, though I agree some people have. Fwiw, I reckon hearts are going down and will be struggling for a good few years, but talk of liquidation which is still rife on this thread is imo nonsense.

As for people's sources being more itk, they aren't. No one in Scotland is only those in Lithuania. Sure people might hear something a day or two before it comes out, but I've seen not a single post on here that's been well ahead of the media.

[Treadstone]

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By that I meant your likelihood that hearts were going burst.

Hearts did go 'burst'.

[CropleyWasGod]

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By that I meant your likelihood that hearts were going burst.

The second part I merely meant that you were looking at it without factoring in the fact that a football club isn't a normal business. I think the assertions that You've made have been based on a normal company going into admin, and we've seen that a football club won't react the same.

My prediction, based on whatever knowledge and experience I have of businesses (including football ones) getting into trouble, was that there would be a relatively short administration followed by liquidation.

The first bit is looking ropey, as I hadn't anticipated the UBIG complications. However, in administration terms, it probably is still on the short side.

The second part? Less likely than it was 3 months ago, sure, but it is still on the cards.

[steakbake]

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Something tells me that this post wont find itself copied and pasted onto KB....

( by the way..... )

...but...but... that was different, ken likesay...

[lapsedhibee]

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Not for me. BJ wants to present the situation in the best possible light for him. If journalists don't press him on the most awkward questions he isn't obliged to dwell on them.

Nothing he said was untrue.

"I've got to convince UBIG that the shares essentially have no value..."

At the time of speaking, after the conditional CVA was voted through, they quite clearly did have value.

Slippery at best. For simplicity I'd just call it a lie, rather than 'presenting things in the best possible light for him'.

[blackpoolhibs]

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I've not painted that type of scenario at all, though I agree some people have. Fwiw, I reckon hearts are going down and will be struggling for a good few years, but talk of liquidation which is still rife on this thread is imo nonsense.

As for people's sources being more itk, they aren't. No one in Scotland is only those in Lithuania. Sure people might hear something a day or two before it comes out, but I've seen not a single post on here that's been well ahead of the media.

I think you will find Sergeys source WAS from Lithuania. And he's consistently stated these shares are frozen, which has suddenly made the media yesterday and suddenly become an issue.

[GreenLake]

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So even if they don't go into liquidation, they have spent taxpayers and other creditors money for success on the park and aren't going to pay it back. Lets see what the kickback Jambos think of that....

Colinmaroon
SPL, "The whole basis of a financial fair play set of rules is to ensure that if there is a sporting advantage that has been obtained, you can address that through some sort of sporting sanction."

You mean like buying success with the Taxpayers money?
All these trophies bought with money stolen from the taxpayer!

The Gasman
There is no way that the ConDem government, or the Treasury, should allow HMRC to settle for pennies in the pound when services, pensions, and benefits are being cut left, right, & centre.

OldCastlerock2012
Basically all of the many creditors currently not getting paid - including public bodies, i.e. taxpayers, and fellow football clubs - are subsidising the continuation of their club. They should be immediately liquidated and told to get themselves out of the mess they got themselves into, with a newco forced to start at the bottom of the Scottish football pyramid.

Radge21
I hope Alex Salmond was trying to get our tax money back and nothing else.
I am astonished our first minister has got involved.
Political parties backing football clubs in this country is dangerous.

So many people owed money and they have no intention of giving them it back.

K1874M
What I don't get is why were we and other clubs giving them 'tick'. Even the council ffs, everyone knew they were screwed financially.

And my personal favourite..

Dexter
How many of those creditors may face financial hardship should these welts squirm into a CVA ?
It's disgusting.
I HATE them more than any other football club in the world.
Disgusting.

Oh no wait, that was what they thought of Rangers in the run up to a potential debt shedding, creditor screwing CVA. There are thousands more as well in the rangers thread talking about creditors getting cheated, tainted trophies, hospitals not built, etc. So among the (possibly premature) celebrations going on over there, I suspect that there is a little shame deep down.

Gasman - The evolutionary perfection of a brainfart

[greenginger]

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"I've got to convince UBIG that the shares essentially have no value..."

At the time of speaking, after the conditional CVA was voted through, they quite clearly did have value.

Slippery at best. For simplicity I'd just call it a lie, rather than 'presenting things in the best possible light for him'.

" I've got to convince UBIG that the shares essentially have no value "

Hibs.net has got to convince UBIG that the shares DO have a lot of value.

Either in the cash FoH have to cough up, or in the extra funds generated for the Ukio admin. through liquidation.

Either way it will end up with the Lith. State.

[Dashing Bob S]

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I think you will find Sergeys source WAS from Lithuania. And he's consistently stated these shares are frozen, which has suddenly made the media yesterday and suddenly become an issue.

Exactly. He's consistently stated it and it's been consistently ignored, denied or dismissed as irrelevant by many on this site and the mainstream media. Hopefully we will now see just how 'irrelevant' this factor is.

[Onceinawhile]

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I think you will find Sergeys source WAS from Lithuania. And he's consistently stated these shares are frozen, which has suddenly made the media yesterday and suddenly become an issue.

Personally, I think his source is from the land of make believe.

If it turns out he was right all along. I'll come on with a humble apology. I think it's obvious that my opinion is at the opposite end of the scale from one or two others on this thread, so I'll just leave it at that.

[Deansy]

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I have experience in working with businesses who going down the swanny, Hearts could come out of all this debt free tomorrow and would still be completely struggling for years. Baring a miracle (or Killie admin) they will be relagated this year and will struggle in a very competitive league, that stadium takes up a hell of a lot of cash just to keep it open and they have a core support that wrongly demand that they should be no lower than 3rd in the league. All this will put stresses on whoever picks up this mess and may cause them to spiral into another admin.

What should be our mentality is, yes Hearts will survive this. Hibs and the clubs fans must make it our duty, to absolutely destroy this team on the park. This will kill them more than any financial situation.Huge opportuntiy for us to do this in the next 5/10 years

That 'core support who wrongly demand that they should be no lower than 3rd in the league' has only really existed since Mercer began their 'Finance Football' business-model (which successive owners continued) - let's see what happens to their numbers after 2-3 seasons of hearts teams filled with players they can actually afford

[Jack]

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If people are going to ignore those of us in the know then that's just fine. But I assume they'll stop reading this thread and the newspapers and other media as well because up to today not a single outlet has managed 100% accuracy in their reporting.

I trust my source and the people on this board a lot more than I trust the likes of Brian Mclauchlin and Barry Anderson.

There's still plenty reading your very interesting posts Bajillions :-)

Thank you.

[Coco Bryce]

Absolute roaters.
We will never let them forget and that's what counts

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So even if they don't go into liquidation, they have spent taxpayers and other creditors money for success on the park and aren't going to pay it back. Lets see what the kickback Jambos think of that....

Colinmaroon
SPL, "The whole basis of a financial fair play set of rules is to ensure that if there is a sporting advantage that has been obtained, you can address that through some sort of sporting sanction."

You mean like buying success with the Taxpayers money?
All these trophies bought with money stolen from the taxpayer!

The Gasman
There is no way that the ConDem government, or the Treasury, should allow HMRC to settle for pennies in the pound when services, pensions, and benefits are being cut left, right, & centre.

OldCastlerock2012
Basically all of the many creditors currently not getting paid - including public bodies, i.e. taxpayers, and fellow football clubs - are subsidising the continuation of their club. They should be immediately liquidated and told to get themselves out of the mess they got themselves into, with a newco forced to start at the bottom of the Scottish football pyramid.

Radge21
I hope Alex Salmond was trying to get our tax money back and nothing else.
I am astonished our first minister has got involved.
Political parties backing football clubs in this country is dangerous.

So many people owed money and they have no intention of giving them it back.

K1874M
What I don't get is why were we and other clubs giving them 'tick'. Even the council ffs, everyone knew they were screwed financially.

And my personal favourite..

Dexter
How many of those creditors may face financial hardship should these welts squirm into a CVA ?
It's disgusting.
I HATE them more than any other football club in the world.
Disgusting.

Oh no wait, that was what they thought of Rangers in the run up to a potential debt shedding, creditor screwing CVA. There are thousands more as well in the rangers thread talking about creditors getting cheated, tainted trophies, hospitals not built, etc. So among the (possibly premature) celebrations going on over there, I suspect that there is a little shame deep down.

[Jack]

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There's no point arguing with the folk who repeatedly tell themselves that Santa won't be coming this year, so they're happy when all they get is a satsuma

A friend from Tamsons hates Christmas.

When his kids were young he went into the back garden and burst a balloon.

Back in the house the kids asked "What was that Dad" "Santa's just shot himself, Christmas is cancelled!"

A few balloons getting burst down Gorgy way I suspect - in more ways than one ;-)

[The_Sauz]

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Personally, I think his source is from the land of make believe.

If it turns out he was right all along. I'll come on with a humble apology. I think it's obvious that my opinion is at the opposite end of the scale from one or two others on this thread, so I'll just leave it at that.

Just for you Sergey

[The_Sauz]

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So even if they don't go into liquidation, they have spent taxpayers and other creditors money for success on the park and aren't going to pay it back. Lets see what the kickback Jambos think of that....

Colinmaroon
SPL, "The whole basis of a financial fair play set of rules is to ensure that if there is a sporting advantage that has been obtained, you can address that through some sort of sporting sanction."

You mean like buying success with the Taxpayers money?
All these trophies bought with money stolen from the taxpayer!

The Gasman
There is no way that the ConDem government, or the Treasury, should allow HMRC to settle for pennies in the pound when services, pensions, and benefits are being cut left, right, & centre.

OldCastlerock2012
Basically all of the many creditors currently not getting paid - including public bodies, i.e. taxpayers, and fellow football clubs - are subsidising the continuation of their club. They should be immediately liquidated and told to get themselves out of the mess they got themselves into, with a newco forced to start at the bottom of the Scottish football pyramid.

Radge21
I hope Alex Salmond was trying to get our tax money back and nothing else.
I am astonished our first minister has got involved.
Political parties backing football clubs in this country is dangerous.

So many people owed money and they have no intention of giving them it back.

K1874M
What I don't get is why were we and other clubs giving them 'tick'. Even the council ffs, everyone knew they were screwed financially.

And my personal favourite..

Dexter
How many of those creditors may face financial hardship should these welts squirm into a CVA ?
It's disgusting.
I HATE them more than any other football club in the world.
Disgusting.

Oh no wait, that was what they thought of Rangers in the run up to a potential debt shedding, creditor screwing CVA. There are thousands more as well in the rangers thread talking about creditors getting cheated, tainted trophies, hospitals not built, etc. So among the (possibly premature) celebrations going on over there, I suspect that there is a little shame deep down.

That lot have no shame...
It does not matter if they start thinking today.....Ohh **** we have just done the same! They have been doing well before they made those original post's!

[The_Sauz]

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A friend from Tamsons hates Christmas.

When his kids were young he went into the back garden and burst a balloon.

Back in the house the kids asked "What was that Dad" "Santa's just shot himself, Christmas is cancelled!"

A few balloons getting burst down Gorgy way I suspect - in more ways than one ;-)

Don't you mean AGAIN!!!

[blackpoolhibs]

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Personally, I think his source is from the land of make believe.

If it turns out he was right all along. I'll come on with a humble apology. I think it's obvious that my opinion is at the opposite end of the scale from one or two others on this thread, so I'll just leave it at that.

So you think he's been making this all up, why would you say this? You cant just make a statement like that and then say you will leave it at that?

Sergey has only stated the facts, and is still stating them. His source was only giving her opinion which he gave on here.

Its all guesswork at the end of the day, but his source has given us some great insight into this, and he's been spot on 99% of the time.

Thats why his source has been given a lot more credit than you just speculating on what you here and read from the Scottish press or BDO and FOH.

The facts are those share ARE frozen, something he and his source have said for quite a while, but ignored by everyone involved on the Hearts side and even the media.

Although BDO suddenly feel its an issue, and want Hearts fans to forget about Xmas now.

Dont you find this strange, and dont you agree thats what sergey has said all along?

[Jack Hackett]

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" I've got to convince UBIG that the shares essentially have no value "

Hibs.net has got to convince UBIG that the shares DO have a lot of value.

Either in the cash FoH have to cough up, or in the extra funds generated for the Ukio admin. through liquidation.

Either way it will end up with the Lith. State.

The thing that gets me is the barefaced cheek of FoH asking for the shares for zilch, when they have money in the bank ready to spend on the team once they get hold of them.

"Oh we can't give you that because we promised the punters we'd only use it after we ditched our debt for a fraction of its value"

MAKE THEM PAY THROUGH THE NOSE or tell them to bolt!!!

[Chibs]

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Something tells me that this post wont find itself copied and pasted onto KB....

( by the way..... )

Yes it has

[Mellow Hibee]

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Yes it has

They don't seem to like it very much.

[SloopJB]

3 - 2 Elgin Get in.

[Keith_M]

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3 - 2 Elgin Get in.

Eh, what's that got to do with the Hearts CVA?