Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[Mellow Hibee]

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Correct. It's not going to take much of a delay for them to find themselves still in Administration in July and starting their Championship campaign on -15 points.

The one big decision that's still to be made is in the hands of the Lithuanian government. If they choose to keep the shares frozen while investigations continue then there's no resolution.

I'm not doubting this, but the only place I've ever heard it mentioned is on here. The news today appears to be that UBIG have conditionally agreed to transfer the shares subject to a creditors meeting. BDO haven't mentioned the need to unfreeze shares and none of the papers that I've seen have mentioned it. Is there any link for this?

[Mikey]

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I'm not doubting this, but the only place I've ever heard it mentioned is on here. The news today appears to be that UBIG have conditionally agreed to transfer the shares subject to a creditors meeting. BDO haven't mentioned the need to unfreeze shares and none of the papers that I've seen have mentioned it. Is there any link for this?

Link for what? To say that the shares are frozen?

[Mellow Hibee]

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Link for what? To say that the shares are frozen?

Yeah, I've never seen anything about it.

[Mikey]

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Yeah, I've never seen anything about it.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...-s-assets.html

[Mellow Hibee]

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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...-s-assets.html

Cheers Mikey. That's pretty unambiguous and from a good source. Surprised that more yams aren't asking for answers.

[Aldo]

Quite a few yams are of the opinion the shares were 'unfrozen' as soon as Administrators were appointed.

How wrong. Someone should post a link on Brokeback and watch the reaction.

[Mikey]

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Cheers Mikey. That's pretty unambiguous and from a good source. Surprised that more yams aren't asking for answers.

Tell the truth. You're not really, are you

[Mellow Hibee]

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Tell the truth. You're not really, are you

Thought that the second I posted!

[PapillonVert]

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Chat on Kickback is that FoH are now paying BDO's fees. Any confirmation?

I have just been watching the Bryan Jackson interview on the BBC. Now, something potentially interesting about his body language has occurred to me.

If you notice, he appears very uncomfortable in what he is saying, in particular when he is not speaking he is continually swallowing heavily.

If there are any psychologists out there and people who can read body language, I wonder what their assessment of this is. I once read that a sign of someone not quite telling the truth is that they start swallowing quite heavily as they know that what they are saying is not true and their body language is giving away their discomfort at what they are saying.

I am not saying anything, just that that man did not appear comfortable in that interview. Could be, of course, that he is just a very nervous type.

[WindyMiller]

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Fluent in what? Presumably double Dutch & double dealing!! I guess this is a BBC error rather than a Freudian slip from the undertaker!

Maybe a typo, meant to say effluent.

[Aldo]

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I have just been watching the Bryan Jackson interview on the BBC. Now, something potentially interesting about his body language has occurred to me. If you notice, he appears very uncomfortable in what he is saying, in particular when he is not speaking he is continually swallowing heavily. If there are any psychologists out there and people who can read body language, I wonder what their assessment of this is. I once read that a sign of someone not quite telling the truth is that they start swallowing quite heavily as they know that what they are saying is not true and their body language is giving away their discomfort at what they are saying. I am not saying anything, just that that man did not appear comfortable in that interview. Could be, of course, that he is just a very nervous type.

Well well. Seconds after you posted this it appeared on Brokeback courtesy of Scott_Jambo.

Enjoy looking in. The club with no shame!

[Jack]

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I have just been watching the Bryan Jackson interview on the BBC. Now, something potentially interesting about his body language has occurred to me.

If you notice, he appears very uncomfortable in what he is saying, in particular when he is not speaking he is continually swallowing heavily.

If there are any psychologists out there and people who can read body language, I wonder what their assessment of this is. I once read that a sign of someone not quite telling the truth is that they start swallowing quite heavily as they know that what they are saying is not true and their body language is giving away their discomfort at what they are saying.

I am not saying anything, just that that man did not appear comfortable in that interview. Could be, of course, that he is just a very nervous type.

Its not really possible to analyse body language from a 30 second clip. A lot of the observing would need to be done before the cameras rolled, or went live, and looking for differences.

I've been swallowing quite a bit this afternoon as a result of eating a side of smoked salmon for lunch, I know shear greed, but I'm as thirsty as hell. I'm lying, lying down for a wee nap lol.

[Craig_in_Prague]

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I have just been watching the Bryan Jackson interview on the BBC. Now, something potentially interesting about his body language has occurred to me.

If you notice, he appears very uncomfortable in what he is saying, in particular when he is not speaking he is continually swallowing heavily.

If there are any psychologists out there and people who can read body language, I wonder what their assessment of this is. I once read that a sign of someone not quite telling the truth is that they start swallowing quite heavily as they know that what they are saying is not true and their body language is giving away their discomfort at what they are saying.

I am not saying anything, just that that man did not appear comfortable in that interview. Could be, of course, that he is just a very nervous type.

Choking on a pint?

See what you mean though and glad I seen that, still cash flow concerns and ultimately the shares from Ubig, not sure the yams are safe yet.

[CropleyWasGod]

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I have just been watching the Bryan Jackson interview on the BBC. Now, something potentially interesting about his body language has occurred to me.

If you notice, he appears very uncomfortable in what he is saying, in particular when he is not speaking he is continually swallowing heavily.

If there are any psychologists out there and people who can read body language, I wonder what their assessment of this is. I once read that a sign of someone not quite telling the truth is that they start swallowing quite heavily as they know that what they are saying is not true and their body language is giving away their discomfort at what they are saying.

I am not saying anything, just that that man did not appear comfortable in that interview. Could be, of course, that he is just a very nervous type.

I used to work with BJ, albeit many years go. I also got the feeling that he was nervous and, no, he doesn't strike me as the nervous type.

He hinted that the UBIG shares are a stumbling block. IMO, the reason he doesn't say that their freezing might scupper the whole deal is PR.

It needs someone in the media to ask the question directly.

[blindsummit]

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TBF to Bryan Jackson, he didn't say that they will need more money. He said that, if they start to run out of money in March/April, they will need to go back to the fans. The administration is not insolvent yet. Were they, there could be only one way to go.

They may yet assess the situation in the light of the UBIG issues and decide to cut staff in order to ease the pressure. He said in the interview that the cash flow is fluid... that they have had some unexpected income, but that there could be some negative situations as well.

CWG, I have the greatest respect for you and your excellent summations and commentary. I'm just so awash with cynicism now when it comes to Footbal Clubs and Administration, that I'm afraid I automatically assume the worst. The whole Sevco debacle was a real eye opener, and I'm afraid nothing that is happening with Hearts has convinced me that the system does anything to protect creditors, and in particular taxpayers.

[CropleyWasGod]

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CWG, I have the greatest respect for you and your excellent summations and commentary. I'm just so awash with cynicism now when it comes to Footbal Clubs and Administration, that I'm afraid I automatically assume the worst. The whole Sevco debacle was a real eye opener, and I'm afraid nothing that is happening with Hearts has convinced me that the system does anything to protect creditors, and in particular taxpayers.

The "system" is nowhere near perfect, of course it isn't. However, it's only when someone has been stiffed in an insolvency or, as in this case, it's in the public eye (and the taxpayer has been stiffed, that the apparent unfairness of it becomes an issue.

It's an area that has been tinkered with, and overhauled, many times over the years. Better minds than mine have struggled with improving things, and failed. For the moment, IMO, it's probably as good as we can get..... without going down the road of banning credit or (opening a can of worms here) discouraging "enterprise".

In the particular business of football, the Financial Fair Play Rules are trying to address things, but in Hearts and Rangers cases they are too late.

The floor is open.....

[jonny]

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"[Hearts Fans] know the right thing to do cancel Christmas for your kids, give the money to me" - Bryan Jackson

Also note at the start of that video he confirms there is no Plan B and that UBIG's shares aren't guaranteed.

if anyone still doubts my info, or anyone else when they say this is far from over, give that video a watch and tell that if you were a Hearts fan you wouldn't stick the champagne back in the fridge for the time being.

This is far from over no matter how much Hearts fans think it is.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25156354

I don't pretend to know too much about the whole situation but after having a read of this article I think they are in real trouble. The CVA thing is nothing more than a PR trick to keep the morale of the fans up so they can squeeze more cash out of them. It says they dont have enough money to get into March... Will we see another fire sale in January? The supporters (who in fairness have pulled together and put a lot of money into the black hole to keep it going this long) can only give so much, these are working guys and girls and it's now a time of year when folk are traditionally skint trying to give their families what they can at Christmas.
I'm in the camp that would prefer they didnt disappear completely but I really cant see any other outcome.

[brog]

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I have just been watching the Bryan Jackson interview on the BBC. Now, something potentially interesting about his body language has occurred to me.

If you notice, he appears very uncomfortable in what he is saying, in particular when he is not speaking he is continually swallowing heavily.

If there are any psychologists out there and people who can read body language, I wonder what their assessment of this is. I once read that a sign of someone not quite telling the truth is that they start swallowing quite heavily as they know that what they are saying is not true and their body language is giving away their discomfort at what they are saying.

I am not saying anything, just that that man did not appear comfortable in that interview. Could be, of course, that he is just a very nervous type.

TBF to him he became more relaxed the further it went. At the beginning he looked like Nixon saying "there will be no whitewash in the White House"! I think once he was able to actually start telling the truth re the situation he became more confident though I'm not sure the Yams will find his "jokes" re Xmas that funny. Oh & he did say "fluent", maybe an illustration of how nervous he was.

[thebakerboy]

Just had a roaster on my FB saying what a great day for Hearts , but pointed out to him that Bryan Jackson just asked them on the BBC to cancel Christmas and give him the money to keep them going (wearing a Hearts tie I think) till after February. I have always been under the idea that the administrator is supposed to protect the creditors and not the debtors but it seems (as with oldco/newco/sevco) this does not apply in football. By the way he has replied that FOH will take control and with no debt will have enough money to see them till the end of the season . They do live in cloud cuckoo land.

[clerriehibs]

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I don't pretend to know too much about the whole situation but after having a read of this article I think they are in real trouble. The CVA thing is nothing more than a PR trick to keep the morale of the fans up so they can squeeze more cash out of them. It says they dont have enough money to get into March... Will we see another fire sale in January? The supporters (who in fairness have pulled together and put a lot of money into the black hole to keep it going this long) can only give so much, these are working guys and girls and it's now a time of year when folk are traditionally skint trying to give their families what they can at Christmas.
I'm in the camp that would prefer they didnt disappear completely but I really cant see any other outcome.

That doesn't make sense though.

An administrator tries to balance between the best deal for creditors and keeping the company going if at all possible.

An administrator doesn't squeeze as much money as he can out of customers just to keep the money pouring into a 3rd party with the expectation that the company in admin is going to fold anyway. In that scenario, he sees nothing from the 3rd party, so why bother? Unless the administrator isn't on a fixed cost contract,, of course, and then I can see why he'd want to keep it going as long as possible (although probably not 'professional' behaviour).

[Skol]

I am genuinely confused.

CVA agreed in principle which is great and wipes off a large chunk of debt and delivers 30% of shares - after cooling off

UBIG shares of 50% not delivered and presumably UBIG can demand more cash for these. What if they dont roll over and demand a sizeable sum. Are FOH happy to hand over the cash for a minority shareholding ?

What about the 15% held by Vlads niece/daughter or whoever she is. At present Hearts can only count on 35% shares max (Ukio plus those that didnt sell out to VLAD) and Jackson didnt sound all that positive about securing the 50% and spoke of needing more funding post March which indicates he doesnt think things are done and dusted.

We seem to be seeing all these problems to be overcome while hearts fans are rejoicing

[Jonnyboy]

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I have just been watching the Bryan Jackson interview on the BBC. Now, something potentially interesting about his body language has occurred to me.

If you notice, he appears very uncomfortable in what he is saying, in particular when he is not speaking he is continually swallowing heavily.

If there are any psychologists out there and people who can read body language, I wonder what their assessment of this is. I once read that a sign of someone not quite telling the truth is that they start swallowing quite heavily as they know that what they are saying is not true and their body language is giving away their discomfort at what they are saying.

I am not saying anything, just that that man did not appear comfortable in that interview. Could be, of course, that he is just a very nervous type.

Well spotted J. The part I found particularly interesting, though it was on the STV news at six, was when he laughed and said something like "folk are getting ahead of themselves, they're even talking about new signings" The laugh gives an insight into what he thinks of that particular nonsense

[Weststandwanab]

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Accountants / insolvency people = cowboys, the lot of them

Do you know a good solicitor ?

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Let`s wait and see how long it takes before FoH put the stadium and land up for sale with the prospect of full planning permission and no mention of blast zones or listed buildings. A 'community' stadium is then built in the West of Embra with Hearts putting up a good bit of the money due to the sale of their ground.

IF the FoH had got their hands on the Hearts 'brand' but not the stadium, i`d have said they would struggle and would find recovery very difficult. IMO, the fact they have secured their stadium is what will secure their future.

I disagree in the sense that if the secure the stadium I think that is what will bring them down as they will not be able to maintain it without the annual great Jambo bake off !"

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"[Hearts Fans] know the right thing to do cancel Christmas for your kids, give the money to me" - Bryan Jackson

Also note at the start of that video he confirms there is no Plan B and that UBIG's shares aren't guaranteed.

if anyone still doubts my info, or anyone else when they say this is far from over, give that video a watch and tell that if you were a Hearts fan you wouldn't stick the champagne back in the fridge for the time being.

This is far from over no matter how much Hearts fans think it is.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25156354

I quite agree only the start of the end game.

[Bostonhibby]

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Well spotted J. The part I found particularly interesting, though it was on the STV news at six, was when he laughed and said something like "folk are getting ahead of themselves, they're even talking about new signings" The laugh gives an insight into what he thinks of that particular nonsense

Difficult one to sum up, looked very shifty I agree, if I were some form of yam front man here, all I could reasonably think of to say is "ALLISBARRY" buy more shares as soon as we offer them and as soon you work out how to open the piggy bank/your wifes' or carers purse.

Truth be told the last thing you want on an exit administration or not arrangement is something in between - i.e a conditional CVA, that just tells me that it would have been better to do nothing in the first place.

Frozen shares - they are the future, for the foreseeable future. Let the yam rejoice for the time being. Turkeys heading towards xmas

[Waxy]

William hill currently have Hearts at 1/7 to finish bottom.
Only a minor miracle will keep them up, relegation seems a certainty.Unlikely they'll come straight back up and could spend a number of years in the championship.
If the FOH gets the club they'll be run from a biscuit tin and will have no choice but to sell tynecastle and use the money towards a ground elsewhere.
Watch how the FOH and Hearts fans start upping the value of the land when it's time to sell.right now it's "worth nothing and no one can build on it",in a few year it'll change to of course you can build houses, they built a school there ffs, it's worth millions"

Ach.Going down.

[leggeto]

so how much of the debt have they wiped off then

[PapillonVert]

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Well well. Seconds after you posted this it appeared on Brokeback courtesy of Scott_Jambo.

Enjoy looking in. The club with no shame!

Thought he was our Sergey? Outed after 13,000 posts or something Or is that another Scott Jambo?

I can't keep up! Honestly.

[CB_NO3]

As I said about 5 hours ago, nothing has changed from 2 weeks ago. We knew the Ukio admin team were accepting the CVA. That was in black and white. The UBIG shares are the problem, but in all honestly I think the FOH will get them for a few hundred grand. Thats just my opinion though.

[PapillonVert]

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Well spotted J. The part I found particularly interesting, though it was on the STV news at six, was when he laughed and said something like "folk are getting ahead of themselves, they're even talking about new signings" The laugh gives an insight into what he thinks of that particular nonsense

Maybe we need to look at his earlier interviews and see if the same body language is apparent.

He just seemed a bit uncomfortable to me in that interview.

[Gus Fring]

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Text from my source

"Tense atmosphere this morning. Nobody is saying much. There's no smiles and no impression of confidence"

From me this morning. Maybe there's something in this. I'm curious why, if there's money to last until March, BJ is asking for fans to cancel their kids Xmas again? I was also told money was getting tight last week.

Theres more to this than he's letting on, I'm sure of it.