Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[GreenCastle]

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Yep, there's been a tendency throughout for some Hibs fans to invent ways that HoMFC could get out of their mess and end up stronger than before or simply predict that they wouldn't go into administration in the first place. The latest developments might mean they'll get out of administration (I'm not yet convinced about that) but the stronger bit just ain't gonna happen.

We all knew they would be still here in some form - half the fun has been laughing at them while this has all taken place and they have been squirming around worried about the future of their club.

Unless someone with far too much money comes in and decides to invest a significant amount they aren't going to come out stronger. Stronger than before would mean paying players crazy amounts of money for SPL level.

The money they invested they really actually should have achieved more than what they did!

There is still plenty to run here and there has been lots of chat about the money side of the club but the infrastructure is the area which concerns me - Tynie / the main stand is going need sorted soon - they have already admitted it costs too much to keep maintaining - I am awaiting the next plan how they plan to deal with this.

I think they will land on their feet with the jambo backed Heriot Watt / National Sports Centre - but again will come at a price.

As a club we just need to make sure we push on while they suffer and make sure the next generation of kids in Edinburgh aren't brought up supporting the club with no shame.

[Aldo]

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There's a pattern developing here. The people who know what they're talking about say it aint done yet and there's still a bit to go. The people who don't know what they're talking about have got them debt free, with either the PBS or a council built ground, and buying players the others can't afford. I know who I'm listening to

Sorry Mikey what were you saying there I wasnae really listening! :-D

[Dashing Bob S]

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We all knew they would be still here in some form - half the fun has been laughing at them while this has all taken place and they have been squirming around worried about the future of their club.

Unless someone with far too much money comes in and decides to invest a significant amount they aren't going to come out stronger. Stronger than before would mean paying players crazy amounts of money for SPL level.

The money they invested they really actually should have achieved more than what they did!

There is still plenty to run here and there has been lots of chat about the money side of the club but the infrastructure is the area which concerns me - Tynie / the main stand is going need sorted soon - they have already admitted it costs too much to keep maintaining - I am awaiting the next plan how they plan to deal with this.

I think they will land on their feet with the jambo backed Heriot Watt / National Sports Centre - but again will come at a price.

As a club we just need to make sure we push on while they suffer and make sure the next generation of kids in Edinburgh aren't brought up supporting the club with no shame.

I like that. I hope that sticks. TCWNS

[jgl07]

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We all knew they would be still here in some form - half the fun has been laughing at them while this has all taken place and they have been squirming around worried about the future of their club.

Unless someone with far too much money comes in and decides to invest a significant amount they aren't going to come out stronger. Stronger than before would mean paying players crazy amounts of money for SPL level.

The money they invested they really actually should have achieved more than what they did!

There is still plenty to run here and there has been lots of chat about the money side of the club but the infrastructure is the area which concerns me - Tynie / the main stand is going need sorted soon - they have already admitted it costs too much to keep maintaining - I am awaiting the next plan how they plan to deal with this.

I think they will land on their feet with the jambo backed Heriot Watt / National Sports Centre - but again will come at a price.

As a club we just need to make sure we push on while they suffer and make sure the next generation of kids in Edinburgh aren't brought up supporting the club with no shame.

That sums it up quite well.

They were never going to disappear, they have too big and too enthusiastic a fan base for that to happen.

The worst case scenario was (and is) liquidation and a Sevco style re-incarnation either in SPFL League or Lowland League (with or without Tynecastle). It will not be as easy for Hearts to run through the divisions like The Rangers are likely to do. Having said that the support that The Hearts will be able to command should make it easy for them to outspend every team they are likely to encounter on the way. In some respects not having Tynecastle with its high cost of maintenance and insurance and renting, say, Livingston may make the return easier.

The best case scenario of coming out of administration with Tynecastle and staying up looks very unlikely at the moment. A loss at Killie could go some way to seal their fate. The second best scenario would be out of administration with Tynecastle but going down. They will be strapped for cash from the start with high costs (as with The Rangers) for ground maintenance and insurance and automatic promotion would be beyond their reach (unless The Rangers are liquidated for a second time?). They would be dependent on making it through a four team play-off if they are to come straight back. That will be far from easy.

History has shown that few relegated SPL teams come straight back up. Hibs did so as did Inverness. Dundee United, but they had to do it via the playoff and were within seconds of elimination before winning after extra time. Despite that I think that Hearts would be back in the Premiership within a couple of seasons. Question is would they retain their current support or would it melt away given that they would be watching a team that they could afford to field rather than one they could not afford as was the experience from Mercer onwards?

Hibs retained their support in Division One but I do not see Hearts being able to sign the likes of Russell Latapy, Franck Sauzee, Mixu Paateleinen, or even John Hughes and Paul Fenwick.

Whatever happens the Tynecastle question must be addressed. They need to either move to a new ground or spend serious cash on replacing the main stand. Sooner or later it will have to be closed. The rest of the stadium looks rather shabby as well. How will Hearts as a fan controlled club be able to raise the cash for that as well as paying off the Biddies?

Yes Hearts may well be around the SPFL Premiership but they will not be the Hearts that we have known for the past 30 years.

[Waxy]

Nevermind the main stand, i remember hearing that the other three newer stands only had a short lifespan.
Around 25/30 years if i remember right.Or was i dreaming?

[brog]

I think Ian Murray should be asked the following. " If F of H gain control of HoMFC can you please give a commitment that the new owners will reimburse the Big Hearts charity for the £34,045 purloined by the previous administration. " Unless & until they do this they will always remain charity thieves.
Oh & David Southern has never yet satisfactorily explained how this "loan" occurred.
The club with no shame indeed, or the Infamous!

[Treadstone]

Apologies if this has already been answered.

The FoH plan to let every fannie with a diddie have a vote, is this above board regarding not paying any tax on this income stream ?

I personally think the blazer chasers in the FoH will reveal this to fans after they've positioned their feet nicely under the table.

[Mikey]

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Yes Hearts may well be around the SPFL Premiership but they will not be the Hearts that we have known for the past 30 years.

Spot on sir. They won't even be close to it.

[greenpaper55]

Don't forget that they will sell any of the "wonderkids" that they can in the January transfer window, thats those kids that are so good they are heading for the 1st division !.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Apologies if this has already been answered.

The FoH plan to let every fannie with a diddie have a vote, is this above board regarding not paying any tax on this income stream ?

I personally think the blazer chasers in the FoH will reveal this to fans after they've positioned their feet nicely under the table.

Trying hard to suppress my inner Sid James....

There is no "income" as such. It's a donation.

[monktonharp]

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We all knew they would be still here in some form -

As a club we just need to make sure we push on while they suffer and make sure the next generation of kids in Edinburgh aren't brought up supporting the club with no shame.

the very best way to move that process forward quickly, would be to beat them on Wednesday with a very good Hibs support to help, regardless of the results coming up this weekend.

[rcarter1]

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It feels as though this entire thread has turned into an Cable TV series. Loads of promise in the first two series, then a lot of padding and ridiculous plot lines until the rating go down and possibly finishing with an improbable end when the sponsorship goes or the audience move over to Glee.....

This is going to play out badly in the end for the Poppy Thieves but it will not be Game of Thrones spectacular death or execution - maybe more of a Theon plot line (for those that have read that far....) and so long as they are hurting and will be under financial pressure for the considerable, that'll do for me. I never wanted them gone but I did want them harmed

Like Mikey, I'll be sticking with those posters who bring some perspective to the thread and look forward to the next cliff hanger....

Meanwhile congratulations to whoever invented the STF rumour about paying the debt to the LH Foundation. That's got everyone wound up good and proper

Like it It has been gruelling and amusing in equal measure. Cant wait for the final episode.

[Onion]

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There's a pattern developing here.

The people who know what they're talking about say it aint done yet and there's still a bit to go. The people who don't know what they're talking about have got them debt free, with either the PBS or a council built ground, and buying players the others can't afford.

I know who I'm listening to

How do you know who knows what they're talking about until it becomes known

[Treadstone]

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Trying hard to suppress my inner Sid James....

There is no "income" as such. It's a donation.

Kind of my point. Then they should receive nothing in return, ie a vote ?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Kind of my point. Then they should receive nothing in return, ie a vote ?

Shareholders get to vote at Company meetings. The money they pay into the company isn't treated as income.

Granted, the DD's aren't share money but, in essence, they are one and the same. Fans giving money to the club, which will never be repaid.

[Deansy]

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The important part is that it has been used to counter the drop in morale, nothing has actually happened. Yet the fans are backing fully again and the DD's will keep coming in, this is the best chance at the moment the liths have of recouping some money so you don't the pricks to lose interest and cancel there DD's.

It's all propoganda, on a scale vlad would be proud of, although I doubt even he would go this far to fleece the fannies.

They do have form with 'off-field' tactics - the announcements of 'Players not paid' over the last few years always coincided with a big-game coming up for them, IMHO, giving them another GIRFUY mind-set.

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The purchase of the shares of the company is being funded by the likes of Ann Budge (under the BIDCO banner). That money has to be repaid, starting next year, from the working capital of the new owners (FANCO).

Personally, I think that's when the D/D's will really start to plummet. A mixture of mind-sets ranging from 'He/she/they are already stinking-rich and can afford to take the hit' and 'He/she/they have already shown they are hearts-minded enough to have fronted the money so will not want to damage the club' being the main reasons. Their 'support' is arrogant enough to believe that Budge & Co should be grateful as they'll be forever linked with saving such a 'great institution' !!!

[Jack]

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There's a pattern developing here.

The people who know what they're talking about say it aint done yet and there's still a bit to go. The people who don't know what they're talking about have got them debt free, with either the PBS or a council built ground, and buying players the others can't afford.

I know who I'm listening to

Are you suggesting I did fall off my unicorn?

You cad.

Unless you withdraw I shall have no alternative but to send over dragon to toast your motor.

[Springbank]

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They do have form with 'off-field' tactics - the announcements of 'Players not paid' over the last few years always coincided with a big-game coming up for them, IMHO, giving them another GIRFUY mind-set.



Personally, I think that's when the D/D's will really start to plummet. A mixture of mind-sets ranging from 'He/she/they are already stinking-rich and can afford to take the hit' and 'He/she/they have already shown they are hearts-minded enough to have fronted the money so will not want to damage the club' being the main reasons. Their 'support' is arrogant enough to believe that Budge & Co should be grateful as they'll be forever linked with saving such a 'great institution' !!!

Spot on.

The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour.

This lot can morally justify stiffing their own charity, plus macrae and lady Haig, in order to get one Ngoo in return.

Ann Budge won't see many nickels and dimes back from them one suspects

[hibees 7062]

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Spot on.

The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour.

This lot can morally justify stiffing their own charity, plus macrae and lady Haig, in order to get one Ngoo in return.

Ann Budge won't see many nickels and dimes back from them one suspects

Hope she likes cakes and needs steps painted

[Dashing Bob S]

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They do have form with 'off-field' tactics - the announcements of 'Players not paid' over the last few years always coincided with a big-game coming up for them, IMHO, giving them another GIRFUY mind-set.



Personally, I think that's when the D/D's will really start to plummet. A mixture of mind-sets ranging from 'He/she/they are already stinking-rich and can afford to take the hit' and 'He/she/they have already shown they are hearts-minded enough to have fronted the money so will not want to damage the club' being the main reasons. Their 'support' is arrogant enough to believe that Budge & Co should be grateful as they'll be forever linked with saving such a 'great institution' !!!

Yes, I agree, and so it should. Fans are being asked to donate, business people are being asked to give loans from which they'll receive interest. This stinks to the high heaven and the penny will drop when it comes to collecting the cash. It's easy to get folks to pledge in the heat of the moment - it's much harder to get them to pay up in the cold light of day.

This is not a sustainable financial model for Hearts or any other club, it was conceived in desperation and it will perish in the same manner. I'd love to see a CVA happen on this basis - the results would be a hilarious, painful and embarrassing public demise, followed by a Jambo Civil War of biblical proportions.

Bring it on!

[Leithenhibby]

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Yes, I agree, and so it should. Fans are being asked to donate, business people are being asked to give loans from which they'll receive interest. This stinks to the high heaven and the penny will drop when it comes to collecting the cash. It's easy to get folks to pledge in the heat of the moment - it's much harder to get them to pay up in the cold light of day.

This is not a sustainable financial model for Hearts or any other club, it was conceived in desperation and it will perish in the same manner. I'd love to see a CVA happen on this basis - the results would be a hilarious, painful and embarrassing public demise, followed by a Jambo Civil War of biblical proportions.

Bring it on!

Pleasing..........

I'd laugh my socks off, again!....

[Sanger]

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Plus the usual stuff about the Jambo Council building them a state of the art 25,000 seater stadium.

As I've said several times my mate is a senior sports official for the council and he says the council have no intention or the money to build a stadium for anyone. They intend to revamp Meadowbank turning it to a running and fields sports centre with stands. The council are faced with finding cuts of £100 million over the next few years and fund a shortfall in the trams funding.

The formal in the CVA is a formal approval to proceed not acceptance of the offer. It is the only way to see what FOH can really put on the table. It allows the creditors and BDO to to say we have done all we could but what is on offer in hard cash is way short of any compromise deal which sells Tynie at a discount to its real market price.

[Kaiser1962]

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Ann Budge won't see many nickels and dimes back from them one suspects

I suspect she knows this. If she doesn't, she should.

[#FromTheCapital]

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I suspect she knows this. If she doesn't, she should.

If the D/D's dry up she'll be repaid by normal revenue streams ie gate money, player sales etc and the team will suffer. She'll also have some kind of security.

[greenginger]

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If the D/D's dry up she'll be repaid by normal revenue streams ie gate money, player sales etc and the team will suffer. She'll also have some kind of security.

There will be interest payments to be met first. £ 5 million at 5% is £ 250,000 per year and a completely new concept to the Yams, who seemed to have accrued the interest on their borrowings since time began.

Paying all their bills as they fall due will be like living on a different planet to the Gorgie fraudsters.

[Kaiser1962]

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If the D/D's dry up she'll be repaid by normal revenue streams ie gate money, player sales etc and the team will suffer. She'll also have some kind of security.

Football does not have a history of financially rewarding those that put up their own money. Or others money for that matter. Wee Fergus is the obvious one but other than that, its always jam tomorrow.

[poolman]

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As I've said several times my mate is a senior sports official for the council and he says the council have no intention or the money to build a stadium for anyone. They intend to revamp Meadowbank turning it to a running and fields sports centre with stands. The council are faced with finding cuts of £100 million over the next few years and fund a shortfall in the trams funding.

The formal in the CVA is a formal approval to proceed not acceptance of the offer. It is the only way to see what FOH can really put on the table. It allows the creditors and BDO to to say we have done all we could but what is on offer in hard cash is way short of any compromise deal which sells Tynie at a discount to its real market price.

There is no way the Cooncil is going to build anything for that shower

At the moment there is a new round of VERA ( early redundancy ) and also asking certain staff if they would like 3 months unpaid leave

[HibbyAndy]

So they got away with it eh. Kent this long long ago.Spawny barstewards

[Ozyhibby]

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There will be interest payments to be met first. £ 5 million at 5% is £ 250,000 per year and a completely new concept to the Yams, who seemed to have accrued the interest on their borrowings since time began.

Paying all their bills as they fall due will be like living on a different planet to the Gorgie fraudsters.

They only need 1500 diddies to keep paying £16 a month to make the interest payments on that. Very achievable if they currently have 7000 diddies.

[green day]

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They only need 1500 diddies to keep paying £16 a month to make the interest payments on that. Very achievable if they currently have 7000 diddies.

OK, so assume 7000 x £16 x 12 months less the interest is ~ £1.1M

Pretty good going for the Diddies fundraising?

Aye not bad but they must keep that up for 5 years to repay the Biddies?

5 years in which they must live within their means, 5 years of not being the big team, 5 years of upkeep on the asbestos pit - namely what all other teams have to do - live within their means.

Do we really #believe this will happen?

All I see is a lingering sense of boredom among the idiots, followed in a few years time by some other admin/insolvency event.

Whatever happens - They and their financial behaviors will never be the same again.