Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[gorgie greens]

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Full steam ahead after tomorrow if no appeal from UBIG which is unlikely as they have no directors and any significant office bearers gone to ground to avoid prosecution. Maybe things will come to head this week. No new meaningful money or proof of funds from the two joke bids. Would people prefer liquidation proceedings to start before it after next Sunday's derby?

Would prefer it to come anytime before the derby,morale must be at a low,that would be the icing on the top,did anyone mention cake sales

[Waxy]

This was predicted by alot of folks.
They'd be kept in the top league till the league starts,then liquidate.
After which we'll get the SPFL all the media and all the former players and anyone else giving a big push
to keep newyam in the league.
Trying to brush it off as if it's the thing that should be done.
Like all Therangers crap last year.

This is the only avenue for them to escape punishment
and they will go for it.
i guess they're getting ready for this now.
Sure alot of you will say "they can't do that" "they must start at the bottom"

Well i will believe it when i see it.
Establishment club?
Lets see how rotten Scottish football is.
I so hope i'm wrong.

But they've cheated for years.
Influential people have helped them cheat and are helping them now.

[Gus Fring]

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This was predicted by alot of folks.
They'd be kept in the top league till the league starts,then liquidate.
After which we'll get the SPFL all the media and all the former players and anyone else giving a big push
to keep newyam in the league.
Trying to brush it off as if it's the thing that should be done.
Like all Therangers crap last year.

This is the only avenue for them to escape punishment
and they will go for it.
i guess they're getting ready for this now.
Sure alot of you will say "they can't do that" "they must start at the bottom"

Well i will believe it when i see it.
Establishment club?
Lets see how rotten Scottish football is.
I so hope i'm wrong.

But they've cheated for years.
Influential people have helped them cheat and are helping them now.

I can't see this happening as there is one league body now. This would be put to a vote and it won't just be the SPL voting, it'll be all 4 leagues. I can't see it getting the required votes.

[brog]

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There's nothing in the rules that states you can't line up an administrator in advance nor is there one that says you can't lie to the press about being self sufficient. Again, it's important to remember that the SPFL is the clubs not some mythical unbiased group who will rule with an iron fist.

The simple fact is Hearts didn't go into admin before the end of last season and UBIG's situation was significantly vague enough to warrant caution. The SPFL can't act on ifs ands buts or maybes.

Maybe I wasn't sufficiently clear but you're answering a comment which I didn't make. I never said SPFL could act on ifs or maybe's, in fact I agreed with your comments that in season 2012/13 they ( SPFL ) could not legally take action. Where I took issue was your comment that the only difference with Yams being relegated was we could laugh at them & I pointed out that relegation would have been catastrophic for Yams. ( hence why they claimed a dead parrot was in fact still alive! )
My later comments were to point out that under their rules there are a variety of options open to SPFL for further punishment including termination of membership. At present some wages from last season remain unpaid & of course there is the small matter of £1.9mm due to HMRC. Those monies will never be paid, therefore unless a newco is formed Yams will continue to be in breach of the rules. Of course it makes no sense to act while situation is unresolved ( ie in Admin ) but nor should these transgressions be forgiven & forgotten.

[Gus Fring]

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Liquidation after a short admin still on cards. What's a week or two out in this saga. Or just take the SPfL approach and just wait until it hits you in the face like a mouldy old fish. BDO need to look as if they have tried every avenue plus they can milk a bit extra in the fees. It won't be long now.

I can't see BDO liquidating in the next 2 weeks. They have enough money to wait this out and every time they've asked the 2 remaining bidders to increase their bids they have, so the situation is improving on that front. They'll do their absolute best to draw this out for as long as possible which is why Trevor and Brian re-iterate almost every time they're interviewed that this process will not be quick.

[Keith_M]

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I can't see BDO liquidating in the next 2 weeks. They have enough money to wait this out and every time they've asked the 2 remaining bidders to increase their bids they have, so the situation is improving on that front. They'll do their absolute best to draw this out for as long as possible which is why Trevor and Brian re-iterate almost every time they're interviewed that this process will not be quick.

When BDO ask them to increase the size of their bid, it seems to string things out by days or weeks. However, doing so increases BDOs potential fees.

I'd be interested to know if the increase in the bids are so paltry that they are merely swallowed up by extra fees or if they really would be more beneficial to the Creditors.

[CropleyWasGod]

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When BDO ask them to increase the size of their bid, it seems to string things out by days or weeks. However, doing so increases BDOs potential fees.

I'd be interested to know if the increase in the bids are so paltry that they are merely swallowed up by extra fees or if they really would be more beneficial to the Creditors.

Creditor singular now.

In other words, it's a call that UKIO probably have to make. It's them that would lose out by any additional fees.

[Jack]

I don't think its quite right to suggest BDO will be stringing it out to bloat their fees. I'm sure if it was suspected by the Lts, then they'd be given a rocket or the bullet, As our resident experts have continually said this administration is going quite quickly.

[Sanger]

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Others have made it clear that the SPFL were not in a position to do anything because they might have faced a legal challenge.

So I have a question for you, Desantos.

I've been following this thread from the start, and the most knowledgeable folks have been Caversham Green, Cropleywasgod and Sergey. You appeared late in the day with, what appeared to be new knowledge at around the time UBIG or Ukio Bankas were going into administration (I can't remember which) however, and it is just my opinion, since then you have not contributed anything new. Mostly regurgitating the same things worded differently, so, can you clear up for me, and anybody else with similar thoughts, where do you get you information and what contacts and qualification you have to give your opinions?

i have been predicting the demise of the Ukio empire for some time. Not on here from the start but around the time Ukio got in trouble.

i am financial a analyst of 25 years standing and appeared in documentaries, written books and research and been on the radio. I was head of research and strategy at an investment bank. My information comes from the markets and my contacts in the markets and central banks. I know the Bloomberg journalist who covers Lithuania. My analysis comes from weighing up all the Information and putting a value on all the options and comparing it to simar deals.


ok we'd all like liquidation to happen now and we might get over zealous but it is the most likely option for all the reasons I have said on several posts. Freezeing of Romanov's assets might be a block to emerging from admin but not from liquidation where there is no share transfer. We all know the bids are far short upfront of Tynie's land value and can't see any of them making up the millions gap ever. Liths admin know that. Their response to the last offers was not poker but preparing the ground for the liquidation process. They are not going to hang around running up BDOs fees when they know that the game is up.

[BarneyK]

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Others have made it clear that the SPFL were not in a position to do anything because they might have faced a legal challenge.

So I have a question for you, Desantos.

I've been following this thread from the start, and the most knowledgeable folks have been Caversham Green, Cropleywasgod and Sergey. You appeared late in the day with, what appeared to be new knowledge at around the time UBIG or Ukio Bankas were going into administration (I can't remember which) however, and it is just my opinion, since then you have not contributed anything new. Mostly regurgitating the same things worded differently, so, can you clear up for me, and anybody else with similar thoughts, where do you get you information and what contacts and qualification you have to give your opinions?

Aye, do you have any references?
Me, I'm going to shut up - I have no qualifications at all with which to back up my opinions

[Sanger]

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When BDO ask them to increase the size of their bid, it seems to string things out by days or weeks. However, doing so increases BDOs potential fees.

I'd be interested to know if the increase in the bids are so paltry that they are merely swallowed up by extra fees or if they really would be more beneficial to the Creditors.

Not up to BDO but the creditor.

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Aye, do you have any references?
Me, I'm going to shut up - I have no qualifications at all with which to back up my opinions

See above!

[Moulin Yarns]

To Desantos. Thanks. I hope you took my question in the right way. It just seems that there are many Experts on here.

[Spike Mandela]

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To Desantos. Thanks. I hope you took my question in the right way. It just seems that there are many Experts on here.

EVen though there are so called 'experts' on here doesn't mean they will all agree and reach the same conclusions or indeed be correct in their assertions.

Knowledge is a dangerous thing.

[Gus Fring]

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Maybe I wasn't sufficiently clear but you're answering a comment which I didn't make. I never said SPFL could act on ifs or maybe's, in fact I agreed with your comments that in season 2012/13 they ( SPFL ) could not legally take action. Where I took issue was your comment that the only difference with Yams being relegated was we could laugh at them & I pointed out that relegation would have been catastrophic for Yams. ( hence why they claimed a dead parrot was in fact still alive! )
My later comments were to point out that under their rules there are a variety of options open to SPFL for further punishment including termination of membership. At present some wages from last season remain unpaid & of course there is the small matter of £1.9mm due to HMRC. Those monies will never be paid, therefore unless a newco is formed Yams will continue to be in breach of the rules. Of course it makes no sense to act while situation is unresolved ( ie in Admin ) but nor should these transgressions be forgiven & forgotten.

The point I was making was that Hearts have been now punished (Points deduction and transfer embargo) and there is unlikely to be any further punishments coming. Termination of membership is not one of the punishments available in any of the crimes Hearts have committed. As far as the footballing authorities are concerned, the matter has been dealt with in full.

If a newco is not formed when they exit administration that means one of 2 things has happened, Hearts have been liquidated or have agreed a CVA. In both of those circumstances the debt will cease to exist either because it's been paid in part or because there's not enough money to cover it.

If a newco is set up then it's a new company, there will be no debt.

The exception to the newco/CVA route is footballing debt. That will have to be paid back in full.

[hibs0666]

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Others have made it clear that the SPFL were not in a position to do anything because they might have faced a legal challenge.

So I have a question for you, Desantos.

I've been following this thread from the start, and the most knowledgeable folks have been Caversham Green, Cropleywasgod and Sergey. You appeared late in the day with, what appeared to be new knowledge at around the time UBIG or Ukio Bankas were going into administration (I can't remember which) however, and it is just my opinion, since then you have not contributed anything new. Mostly regurgitating the same things worded differently, so, can you clear up for me, and anybody else with similar thoughts, where do you get you information and what contacts and qualification you have to give your opinions?

Petty witch hunts are bad patter

[chinaman]

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This was predicted by alot of folks.
They'd be kept in the top league till the league starts,then liquidate.
After which we'll get the SPFL all the media and all the former players and anyone else giving a big push
to keep newyam in the league.
Trying to brush it off as if it's the thing that should be done.
Like all Therangers crap last year.

This is the only avenue for them to escape punishment
and they will go for it.
i guess they're getting ready for this now.
Sure alot of you will say "they can't do that" "they must start at the bottom"

Well i will believe it when i see it.
Establishment club?
Lets see how rotten Scottish football is.
I so hope i'm wrong.

But they've cheated for years.
Influential people have helped them cheat and are helping them now.

magic post pal and Scottish footballs rotten to the marrow .

[Sanger]

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EVen though there are so called 'experts' on here doesn't mean they will all agree and reach the same conclusions or indeed be correct in their assertions.

Knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Yes I agree with Sergey on his analysis of Of Lith political situ but not on long admin. But disagree with CWG on some points but agree with his short admin position. I don't claim to be right but analyse it as I see it. Anyway we may have all started as hobos (apologies to all the experts on here not born hobos) but one thing's for sure hoboeconomists are far superior with the help of all the lay Hibs net followers than Yameconomics. We all want the same thing: the demise of that cheating, bigoted establishment team. And we have had great fun posting and reading about it. I'm not feeing quite as down about today's result now. Happy to wait till after next Sunday so we can stuff them for one last time then the liquidation shutters can come down.

[brog]

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The point I was making was that Hearts have been now punished (Points deduction and transfer embargo) and there is unlikely to be any further punishments coming. Termination of membership is not one of the punishments available in any of the crimes Hearts have committed. As far as the footballing authorities are concerned, the matter has been dealt with in full.

If a newco is not formed when they exit administration that means one of 2 things has happened, Hearts have been liquidated or have agreed a CVA. In both of those circumstances the debt will cease to exist either because it's been paid in part or because there's not enough money to cover it.

If a newco is set up then it's a new company, there will be no debt.

The exception to the newco/CVA route is footballing debt. That will have to be paid back in full.

Ok, thanks, I posted a while back that I thought Rule 6.1.11 was a bit of a catch all which allowed termination if a club was in breach of the Rules. I did post also however that I found this part of the rules a very difficult read & will happily accept my interpretation could be wrong.
I'm aware of & agree your thoughts re a newco though your wording suggests a newco & liquidation are not compatible which i don't think you mean or is the case. My point however is Yams may be in Admin for some time, they've been punished for that transgression but I don't think specifically for the non payment of wages & HMRC. I understood, & I'm sure it was posted on here that a further SPFL meeting was to be held to discuss these & other issues. Perhaps it was the recent SFA meeting which seemed to cause some confusion on here. To summarise I think we're in violent agreement!

[Jack Hackett]

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Yes I agree with Sergey on his analysis of Of Lith political situ but not on long admin. But disagree with CWG on some points but agree with his short admin position. I don't claim to be right but analyse it as I see it. Anyway we may have all started as hobos (apologies to all the experts on here not born hobos) but one thing's for sure hoboeconomists are far superior with the help of all the lay Hibs net followers than Yameconomics. We all want the same thing: the demise of that cheating, bigoted establishment team. And we have had great fun posting and reading about it. I'm not feeing quite as down about today's result now. Happy to wait till after next Sunday so we can stuff them for one last time then the liquidation shutters can come down.

I've given up feeling bad about results. After over 40 years of being a Hibby, I've finally realized there's no point and my feeling bad isn't going to alter our last disastrous result, or prevent the next. From now on I'll just give one of these and come back to this thread, where I can bask in our undoubted moral superiority over the degenerates

[Sanger]

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I've given up feeling bad about results. After over 40 years of being a Hibby, I've finally realized there's no point and my feeling bad isn't going to alter our last disastrous result, or prevent the next. From now on I'll just give one of these and come back to this thread, where I can bask in our undoubted moral superiority over the degenerates

45 years of following the Hibs has largely made me feel the same way. But After Malmo it took me a say to come back on here. Feel bad because we deserved Something today but there's always tomorrow's breaking news from Hearts!

[Ozyhibby]

Tomorrow's breaking news you say?
What's happening?

[Billy Whizz]

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Tomorrow's breaking news you say?
What's happening?

I think he meant, everyday is breaking news with Hearts

[Bostonhibby]

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Tomorrow's breaking news you say?
What's happening?

Have Hibs been successful in a bid for all their remaining defensive midfielders?

[Sanger]

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Tomorrow's breaking news you say?
What's happening?

Well we have not heard anything new since Thursday's transfer embargo and Friday's Romanov arrest warrant. In the crazy world of Hearts and Romanov there can be no more than two days without fresh scandals. No UBIG appeal leads to quickening of Hearts admin process !

[The Falcon]

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The point I was making was that Hearts have been now punished (Points deduction and transfer embargo) and there is unlikely to be any further punishments coming.

Is there still not a punishment or non payment of wages and taxes to be meted out?

[Prof. Shaggy]

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Tomorrow's breaking news you say?
What's happening?

I love this place.

[Jack]

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Well we have not heard anything new since Thursday's transfer embargo and Friday's Romanov arrest warrant. In the crazy world of Hearts and Romanov there can be no more than two days without fresh scandals. No UBIG appeal leads to quickening of Hearts admin process !

Even breaking news needs a break :-)

One thing that really surprises me is the weekend contributions the likes you, Crops, Bajillions. Sergey and Caversham Green!

Your fees are high enough during the week, god knows what the weekend rates are!!!! You must be costing dotnet more than BDO are costing the yams :-D

[Gus Fring]

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Even breaking news needs a break :-)

One thing that really surprises me is the weekend contributions the likes you, Crops, Bajillions. Sergey and Caversham Green!

Your fees are high enough during the week, god knows what the weekend rates are!!!! You must be costing dotnet more than BDO are costing the yams :-D

I'm a freelance researcher so I do the hard work for pennies and the guys on the big wages take the credit ;)

[brog]

To cheer me up after yesterday's debacle I read the whole BDO document of 26 July, sad I know! I have some questions for our resident experts & some separate comments.

Q1. Yams turnover increased from 2011 to 2012 by £1.8mm yet their profit of £0.5mm turned into a loss of £1.6mm. So effectively £3.9mm worse off in 2012. Can anyone remember why?
Q2. On P4 it states circa £900k has been received from ticket sales ( net of VAT =£750k ). On P14, receipts & payments it shows an exact total of £813,195.83 & on P15 it shows the RBS season ticket a/c as holding £803,396.70! On P7 it states that £125k is still held by the agency & will be released at set times after the 1st home game. i know the figures on P14 are a trading a/c so I'm guessing the £813K includes VAT + £125k still to come = the circa £900k quoted on P4. Does this make sense?
Q3 The trading a/c figures show a surplus of £958,477 since Admin. There's been some comment on here that if Yams are liquidated shortly there will be some £600k to pay to creditors but is that correct? This trading a/c is a snapshot in time & there will be further income & expenditure since the cut off date. Assuming extra income from derby is offset by wages (approx £200k) there are VAT liabilities of minimum £250k, PAYE/NIB of about £140k & football debts of £535k, that doesn't leave too much to distribute.

Didn't mean this to be so lengthy, would appreciate comments & I'll post some more shortly.

[Part/Time Supporter]

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To cheer me up after yesterday's debacle I read the whole BDO document of 26 July, sad I know! I have some questions for our resident experts & some separate comments.

Q1. Yams turnover increased from 2011 to 2012 by £1.8mm yet their profit of £0.5mm turned into a loss of £1.6mm. So effectively £3.9mm worse off in 2012. Can anyone remember why?
Q2. On P4 it states circa £900k has been received from ticket sales ( net of VAT =£750k ). On P14, receipts & payments it shows an exact total of £813,195.83 & on P15 it shows the RBS season ticket a/c as holding £803,396.70! On P7 it states that £125k is still held by the agency & will be released at set times after the 1st home game. i know the figures on P14 are a trading a/c so I'm guessing the £813K includes VAT + £125k still to come = the circa £900k quoted on P4. Does this make sense?
Q3 The trading a/c figures show a surplus of £958,477 since Admin. There's been some comment on here that if Yams are liquidated shortly there will be some £600k to pay to creditors but is that correct? This trading a/c is a snapshot in time & there will be further income & expenditure since the cut off date. Assuming extra income from derby is offset by wages (approx £200k) there are VAT liabilities of minimum £250k, PAYE/NIB of about £140k & football debts of £535k, that doesn't leave too much to distribute.

Didn't mean this to be so lengthy, would appreciate comments & I'll post some more shortly.

Sorry, but that's a load of nonsense.

1. The "profits" under Romanov (if there were any) were due to his write offs of debt, not actual trading.

2. Trading account figures won't include VAT in income and will include PAYE/NIC costs in wages.