Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[lapsedhibee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I've been speaking to my sources this morning. Here's the skinny from both Hearts and the SPFL.

The feeling internally at Hearts is that Liquidation is the most likely outcome. This is because the bids submitted to UKIO were not the original offers, BDO had already advised the bidders they were unacceptable and asked them to increase them, HMFC Ltd gave their highest offer first time so they had no where else to go but drop out. The FOH have very little cash for a CVA (compared to the size of the debt) and there is concern about how much of the direct debits will be used to run the club and how much will be used to repay the startup costs.

There is also the added hurdles of the assets still being frozen. BDO have made it clear that this is not anywhere near as easy to resolve as the press has made out. BDO were also hoping that the creditors list would go under the radar, they knew some of the names would result in negative press but ultimately it's not their problem.

BDO are duty bound to follow this path until it becomes impossible though. They're not going to give up until they have to because their reputation and future business is on the line.

Now, the SPFL.

They've been discussing with their lawyers about what the options available are and their hands are tied. They refused financial assistance on 2 separate occasions before admin occurred because they want as much possible left in the pot to deal with Hearts no longer being in the league if needs be. The lawyers have told them they will be wide open to litigation if they don't do this by the book. No decision has been made yet about what the punishment will be tomorrow, it's only fair to hear Hearts side of the story before making a decision. BDO gave repeated assurances to the SPL that Hearts will be able to fulfil they're fixtures including providing proof of funding (What they currently have in the bank and projected earnings during the season). BDO have good stock within the SPFL as they've always been open and honest in the past.

CWG in undermining fellow professionals shocker!

[hibs0666]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Last bit is at odds with what BDO have said about having funding till October.

They have £900,000 in the bank and are burning about £300,000 a month. That does not include any other cash that the club is due to receive from the league, sponsors etc. through the season.

[Gus Fring]

I forgot to add, there is no "Debt Free" scenario for Hearts to exit administration. Massone's bid has a loan that will be taken over by the club apparently and the FOH have to pay back all of the money they are using to buy the club. Both will have to pay back the footballing debt.

[Craig_in_Prague]

I hope those of you that wanted them to still be around & exit administration, are changing your minds - haven seen the long list of people & companies they have shafted. For a very long number of years, they have failed to pay various things that any sporting club should be paying without question & on time, every time!..... the tax man & their own training location FFS!
They threw ridiculous money at players & continued to do so and ignore all else..... and year on year became the most horrible football team on the planet.

This disgusting, turd coloured team, deserve to be liquidated and gone for good.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

CWG in undermining fellow professionals shocker!

I did wonder why it didn't appear on the Hearts website.

However, they are a bit naive if they thought that no-one would pick it up. Or, perhaps, they were relying on the MSM to do their usual non-job on stuff that is actually in the public domain.

[StevieC]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It is my guess that Hearts will get the ground & rights for less that £4 million & creditors will get Sweet FA.

Surely the Lithuanians must be thinking that, for less than £4m to squeeze through a CVA, it's worth a punt on the open market after liquidation.
At worst you will likely still get the same bids for Tynecastle from those trying to save the club, even after liquidation. And there is always the chance that a couple of property developers bidding against each other might see them double their money?

[Hibs7]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

They have £900,000 in the bank and are burning about £300,000 a month. That does not include any other cash that the club is due to receive from the league, sponsors etc. through the season.

They also have 500,000 odd footballing debts that have to be paid out of that 900,000 plus the administrators fees which at present are £ 180,000 so not a lot left if they are burning £300,000 a month ..in fact if my calculations are correct they are on their bare arse !!

[Keith_M]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

After reading about the CVA agreed for Dunfermline Athletic, I cannot help thinking that a very similar scenario is about to happen at the wongadome,

Creditors received a big fat zero despite debts of around £10 million. Preferential creditors receiving about £70K & only football debts to be paid £150K.

Pretty disgusting that the the pictures in the paper show Mr Leishman & his counter part celebrating with raised scarfs after shafting all those innocent creditors.

I'm not sure what the situation is with East End Park but if would appear that Pars Utd have obtained the ground (which must have been work a few bob to developers) for virtually nowt (unless there is some sort of retal agreement that I haven't heard about).

It is my guess that Hearts will get the ground & rights for less that £4 million & creditors will get Sweet FA.

The SFA will extend a transfer embargo until December and when that is lifted the Yams will sign a load of players, probably on higher wages than we currently pay in a bid to stay up.

Are you Rolland from the Scotsman comments section?

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It is my guess that Hearts will get the ground & rights for less that £4 million & creditors will get Sweet FA.

The SFA will extend a transfer embargo until December and when that is lifted the Yams will sign a load of players, probably on higher wages than we currently pay in a bid to stay up.

Good guess. BDO have already stated that in their report.

[RoxburghHibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I hope those of you that wanted them to still be around & exit administration, are changing your minds - haven seen the long list of people & companies they have shafted. For a very long number of years, they have failed to pay various things that any sporting club should be paying without question & on time, every time!..... the tax man & their own training location FFS!
They threw ridiculous money at players & continued to do so and ignore all else..... and year on year became the most horrible football team on the planet.

This disgusting, turd coloured team, deserve to be liquidated and gone for good.

especially the turd colour bit

[hibby rae]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I've been speaking to my sources this morning. Here's the skinny from both Hearts and the SPFL.

The feeling internally at Hearts is that Liquidation is the most likely outcome. This is because the bids submitted to UKIO were not the original offers, BDO had already advised the bidders they were unacceptable and asked them to increase them, HMFC Ltd gave their highest offer first time so they had no where else to go but drop out. The FOH have very little cash for a CVA (compared to the size of the debt) and there is concern about how much of the direct debits will be used to run the club and how much will be used to repay the startup costs.

There is also the added hurdles of the assets still being frozen. BDO have made it clear that this is not anywhere near as easy to resolve as the press has made out. BDO were also hoping that the creditors list would go under the radar, they knew some of the names would result in negative press but ultimately it's not their problem.

BDO are duty bound to follow this path until it becomes impossible though. They're not going to give up until they have to because their reputation and future business is on the line.

Now, the SPFL.

They've been discussing with their lawyers about what the options available are and their hands are tied. They refused financial assistance on 2 separate occasions before admin occurred because they want as much possible left in the pot to deal with Hearts no longer being in the league if needs be. The lawyers have told them they will be wide open to litigation if they don't do this by the book. No decision has been made yet about what the punishment will be tomorrow, it's only fair to hear Hearts side of the story before making a decision. BDO gave repeated assurances to the SPL that Hearts will be able to fulfil they're fixtures including providing proof of funding (What they currently have in the bank and projected earnings during the season). BDO have good stock within the SPFL as they've always been open and honest in the past.

Have your sources gave you a prediction of when they think liquidation is most likely to take place, if it does?

[Baader]

That list is shameful (businesses they have used and completely disregarded including charities) and hilarious in parts - one individual is owed £41!!!

Will be an absolute disgrace if they get out of this without squaring off the many they conned along the way while still signing players...

[PapillonVert]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I forgot to add, there is no "Debt Free" scenario for Hearts to exit administration. Massone's bid has a loan that will be taken over by the club apparently and the FOH have to pay back all of the money they are using to buy the club. Both will have to pay back the footballing debt.

sorry, Bajillions, but for financial illiterates like myself, can you explain this a bit more?

Will Masssone's bid be funded 100% by club? Edit: Via loan which is landed on the club? So, he takes it over, realises the assets and pockets the proceeds and, bang, into admin. we go again?

For FoH you say they have to pay back all the money. To whom? Aren't the pledges the equivalent of gifts? I am not seeing why they would legally be obliged to pay that back if it has been freely and voluntarily handed over with no strings attached.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

That list is shameful (businesses they have used and completely disregarded including charities) and hilarious in parts - one individual is owed £41!!!

Will be an absolute disgrace if they get out of this without squaring off the many they conned along the way while still signing players...

An interesting £457 owed to a company called Shred-it.

Wonder what documents were shredded.

[joe breezy]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

After reading about the CVA agreed for Dunfermline Athletic, I cannot help thinking that a very similar scenario is about to happen at the wongadome,

Creditors received a big fat zero despite debts of around £10 million. Preferential creditors receiving about £70K & only football debts to be paid £150K.

Pretty disgusting that the the pictures in the paper show Mr Leishman & his counter part celebrating with raised scarfs after shafting all those innocent creditors.

I'm not sure what the situation is with East End Park but if would appear that Pars Utd have obtained the ground (which must have been work a few bob to developers) for virtually nowt (unless there is some sort of retal agreement that I haven't heard about).

It is my guess that Hearts will get the ground & rights for less that £4 million & creditors will get Sweet FA.

The SFA will extend a transfer embargo until December and when that is lifted the Yams will sign a load of players, probably on higher wages than we currently pay in a bid to stay up.

i take it you've not been following the Hearts case then, which is very different in many ways?

[Keith_M]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

An interesting £457 owed to a company called Shred-it.

Wonder what documents were shredded.

That would be quite funny, get a company to shred all the evidence of financial mis-management then bump them for the bill

[lapsedhibee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I did wonder why it didn't appear on the Hearts website.

However, they are a bit naive if they thought that no-one would pick it up. Or, perhaps, they were relying on the MSM to do their usual non-job on stuff that is actually in the public domain.

There you go again!

They were shirley in serious error if they thought, after all that went on last year with the the the huns, that MSM's doziness would be enough to keep sensitive info under wraps.

Probably naive of me to think that a £240/hr average wage should bring with it more nous.

[Jack]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

sorry, Bajillions, but for financial illiterates like myself, can you explain this a bit more?

Will Masssone's bid be funded 100% by club? Edit: Via loan which is landed on the club? So, he takes it over, realises the assets and pockets the proceeds and, bang, into admin. we go again?

For FoH you say they have to pay back all the money. To whom? Aren't the pledges the equivalent of gifts? I am not seeing why they would legally be obliged to pay that back if it has been freely and voluntarily handed over with no strings attached.

I'm no financial expert but what I understand of the foh bid Ann Budge and others are putting up the capital to buy the club, they are to be repaid from the pledges. I would imagine Massones backers will want something similar.

[rcarter1]

I hope, given that Dunfermline have burned £10 million, and Hearts one way or another set to burn another £X million, not to mention Rangers, that the SPFL finally get their act together to ensure ALL clubs are run in an honest and responsible fashion.

Unbelievable. I am going to start a Football club - Scam Utd FC, borrow 10 million, blow it on a good time, do a runner, and then say it was all for the fans...

[nribs]

I don't understand all this doing things by the book and leaving themselves open to being sued? I thought Hearts could be fined, transfer embaro, censored?? Or have their membership removed? Surely if the later is an option for going into admin then it's legaly covered?? Get rid of the cheating ****s!!

[PapillonVert]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'm no financial expert but what I understand of the foh bid Ann Budge and others are putting up the capital to buy the club, they are to be repaid from the pledges. I would imagine Massones backers will want something similar.

Aah, bisto! I didn't know FoH had AB putting up the capital. Thought it was all coming from the pledges. That bid looks more la-la-land and wobbly by the minute. Surely not a viable business plan - unless they think they can continue the Jambo Way of ignoring all bills?

A sort of footballing "trou normand". Or Roman banquet.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I don't understand all this doing things by the book and leaving themselves open to being sued? I thought Hearts could be fined, transfer embaro, censored?? Or have their membership removed? Surely if the later is an option for going into admin then it's legaly covered?? Get rid of the cheating ****s!!

Also, where are they going to get the money to sue?

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

There you go again!

They were shirley in serious error if they thought, after all that went on last year with the the the huns, that MSM's doziness would be enough to keep sensitive info under wraps.

Probably naive of me to think that a £240/hr average wage should bring with it more nous.

It wasn't under wraps, though. It was out there, for anyone to see.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Also, where are they going to get the money to sue?

It would be the liquidators who would sue. Along the lines of RFC's liquidators suing Collyer Bristow.

[ano hibby]

Thanks for the update Bajillions, appreciate some decent info. Sounds pretty sensible.

[Jack]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I did wonder why it didn't appear on the Hearts website.

However, they are a bit naive if they thought that no-one would pick it up. Or, perhaps, they were relying on the MSM to do their usual non-job on stuff that is actually in the public domain.

Your posting of the debtors list was undoubtedly one of the most brilliant exposes made on this website EVER, IMO :-)

I have no doubt BDO, and anyone else associated with hahahearts, would have rather never seen it again after it was filed at Companies Hoose.

While they will have made contingency plans for it going public I bet they never thought they'd have to use them. I'd have loved to have been in the room when they found out the news broke.

[hibs0666]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

They also have 500,000 odd footballing debts that have to be paid out of that 900,000 plus the administrators fees which at present are £ 180,000 so not a lot left if they are burning £300,000 a month ..in fact if my calculations are correct they are on their bare arse !!

I'd guess that the SFA will want the football debts paid if and when when they come out of administration so it won't affect the £900,000 directly. I fully agree that they are on their bare arse.

[PatHead]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Aah, bisto! I didn't know FoH had AB putting up the capital. Thought it was all coming from the pledges. That bid looks more la-la-land and wobbly by the minute. Surely not a viable business plan - unless they think they can continue the Jambo Way of ignoring all bills?

A sort of footballing "trou normand". Or Roman banquet.

At the very beginning of FoH coming out as a contender, when they offered to buy the club for paying off the tax bill and get Hearts for £500k they stated that the funds would come from a loan which had to be repaid. As they have not collected any money yet and only appear to have £48,000 I would assume the same will happen here as they don't have any funds to bridge the gap between £48k and £x million to buy the club. This means their playing budget is non existent. Almost makes you want them to survive. But hell no- die and die soon.

[Keith_M]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It wasn't under wraps, though. It was out there, for anyone to see.

"But Mr Dent, the plans have been available in the local planning office for the last nine months."

"Oh yes, well as soon as I heard I went straight round to see them, yesterday afternoon. You hadn't exactly gone out of your way to call attention to them, had you? I mean, like actually telling anybody or anything."

"But the plans were on display ..."

"On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them."

"That's the display department."

"With a flashlight."

"Ah, well the lights had probably gone."

"So had the stairs."

"But look, you found the notice didn't you?"

"Yes," said Arthur, "yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'."

[Gus Fring]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I don't understand all this doing things by the book and leaving themselves open to being sued? I thought Hearts could be fined, transfer embaro, censored?? Or have their membership removed? Surely if the later is an option for going into admin then it's legaly covered?? Get rid of the cheating ****s!!

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Also, where are they going to get the money to sue?

We went over this a few pages back. Long story short, membership termination isn't an available punishment for going into administration.

Hearts have more than enough money now to mount a legal challenge, the money they have to see them into october could be repurposed on a court battle if they aren't going to be playing football as a result of the SPFL booting them out. This would inevitably result in Hearts winning the court case and costing the SPFL millions, which would have a direct impact on every team in the league.

[PatHead]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It wasn't under wraps, though. It was out there, for anyone to see.

Only if they bothered looking though. MSM have a history of not bothering. Thanks for finding it. Can we all get signed photos are you are fast becoming our hero? (At least until kick off on Sunday)

[Waxy]

Almost seems like their only option is liquidation. If they fo somehow manage to squirm out of administration, it'll be by alot of crooked actions by crooked people.

[PapillonVert]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It would be the liquidators who would sue. Along the lines of RFC's liquidators suing Collyer Bristow.

The liquidators represent the creditors. Why would they sue and use up the creditors' money?

It would be up to rump HMFC to sue and they don't have a bean.

Don't think the Collyer Bristow case was the same issue. They were sued for negligent advice IIRC.