Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[CropleyWasGod]

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There must be an element of prediction tied in there as i am assuming its based on HoMFC being in the top tier of the new SPFL. Something that looks very unlikely for the coming season or the one thereafter.

Why? At the moment, that's where they are.

The projections will be for the season to come.

[blindsummit]

I am keen to see what salary budget they are basing that on. I'm assuming that it is a sustainable one.

[Kaiser1962]

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I'm not disagreeing.

I am playing Devil's Advocate to those who dismiss the opinion of an international firm of accountants as "pish" and "bollocks".

I'd like to see where their income is coming from given that 9k season tickets will have been sold and the money gone even before a ball is kicked.

If they can generate a £400k profit from that start then they are not accountants, they are ***** magicians.

[CropleyWasGod]

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I'd like to see where their income is coming from given that 9k season tickets will have been sold and the money gone even before a ball is kicked.

If they can generate a £400k profit from that start then they are not accountants, they are ***** magicians.

They will probably be counting the 9k as this season's income, which is fair enough. It doesn't matter, from a profit point of view, that the money has been spent already. That aspect is part of the working capital funding that a buyer will have to fund.

[Treadstone]

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Why? At the moment, that's where they are.

The projections will be for the season to come.

Fair enough. Would love to see some of the main bullet points of the report, bet peas could be shot through it without even trying.

[brog]

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I'm not disagreeing.

I am playing Devil's Advocate to those who dismiss the opinion of an international firm of accountants as "pish" and "bollocks".

CWG, I'm sure you, like me have seen many examples of international accounting firms doing just that, Andersens with Enron being probably the outstanding example.

[BarneyK]

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I am intrigued, I have to say, as to how they arrive at it.

However, I also accept that they're trying to sell something that isn't very good. They have to spin it as well as they can.

It's all very well, though, using that headline figure. Those who are seriously interested will examine the projections (NOT, as some on here have it, predictions) and decide for themselves whether they are bollocks.

On a £5m investment, though, a £400k return looks pretty good to me.

Where does the £5m come from, Crops? This surely won't get them the club AND stadium AND season's running cost shortfall?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Fair enough. Would love to see some of the main bullet points of the report, bet peas could be shot through it without even trying.

... which is where the due diligence comes in.

Gordon McKie and Stevie Paterson are both C.A.'s. They will know the right questions to ask.

[Part/Time Supporter]

£400K profit based on playing in the SPL and having the payroll reduced to a bunch of kids plus a handful of senior players sounds quite realistic. The last time Hibs made operating profits was when they had a team of kids + the odd senior player, when Mowbray was the manager.

The problem is that about 2/3 of Hearts' season book income for 2013/14 was swallowed up paying bills incurred the year before. Although you could make a paper profit of £400K for the year to 30 June 2014, any prospective buyer would have to fund a cash deficit of well over £1M. On top of that McKie was saying in the paper that if they gained control they would look to strengthen the squad ASAP in an effort to avoid relegation. All of which would effectively be added to the investment cost of buying the club from the Lithuanians.

Quite interesting that they've set a deadline of 12 July for formal bids when FOH aren't raising any cash from supporters until early August. Looks like all of Hearts' eggs are now in the McKie basket.

[Eyrie]

Minor point, but we've reached page 0762 on this thread

[CropleyWasGod]

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Where does the £5m come from, Crops? This surely won't get them the club AND stadium AND season's running cost shortfall?

I just threw it in, TBH. IF (big IF) it cost £5m, I think it would be a good investment. (That's based on £5m for the club and stadium, by the way).

Gordon McKie hinted that he had a figure in mind for the value of the club. I'm trying to read his mind, and I reckon he can't go much above that. As you say, they have to fund the coming season as well.

[Dashing Bob S]

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Someone on keekback put money on hearts to finish in a european qualifying league position next season

My initial thought was "must be a hibee on the wind up" but then again hearts fans really are that deluded so most likely was a jambo being genuine!

I would laugh. A fifteen point deduction, and playing with a bunch of kids in a threadbare pool could be the kick up the backside Hearts need to galvanise them to romp through the league and conquer Europe. Let's ask BDO.

[HFC 0-7]

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Exactly! BDO can hardly publish something saying here is a football club, you will need millions to buy it and millions to run it and it will post losses. They have to market it as best they can, even if it is fairy tale stuff.

[jgl07]

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CWG, I'm sure you, like me have seen many examples of international accounting firms doing just that, Andersens with Enron being probably the outstanding example.

Duff and Duffer?

[HFC 0-7]

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I just threw it in, TBH. IF (big IF) it cost £5m, I think it would be a good investment. (That's based on £5m for the club and stadium, by the way).

Gordon McKie hinted that he had a figure in mind for the value of the club. I'm trying to read his mind, and I reckon he can't go much above that. As you say, they have to fund the coming season as well.

Surely if the buyer is offering anything less than the market value for tynie the deal is a no goer? Surely BDO have to get the best deal for creditors and if that ultimately means splitting assets then thats the way they will go. Is there any reason Ukio would accept anything less than the market value? If someone came in with 5 million for everything then Ukio would have the lot and nothing left for a CVA?

[jgl07]

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Surely if the buyer is offering anything less than the market value for tynie the deal is a no goer? Surely BDO have to get the best deal for creditors and if that ultimately means splitting assets then thats the way they will go. Is there any reason Ukio would accept anything less than the market value? If someone came in with 5 million for everything then Ukio would have the lot and nothing left for a CVA?

That is effectively what Duff and Duffer did with Ibrox and Murray Park.

[Part/Time Supporter]

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That is effectively what Duff and Duffer did with Ibrox and Murray Park.

Which were unsecured.

[EuanH78]

BDO are Ukio's men though aren't they? Wouldn't they be trying to secure the best deal for the creditors?

[Northernhibee]

Here's a selection of posts from Brokeback that made my jaw drop. Unbelievable.

Statts1976uk posted:

The Rangers case here is irrelevant as what they were charged and punished for was not simply going into administration. We haven't brought the game into disrepute by having directors with undeclared bans from hokding directorships and we also haven't wilfully withheld tax, PAYE & NI. We've tried our utmost to work with HMRC and paid as much as we can.

Shaun William Ryder posted:

Imagine they fined us £150k, and the fans paid it... Then we were bought over and the transfer ban lifted for exiting admin.

Jammy T posted:

There is one thing I would hope the SFA would keep in mind and certainly I would expect BDO to raise.

For 2 years we have been downsizing and decreasing the cost of our squad. Indeed so much effort was made to cut costs and live within our means that we are now left with a very threadbare squad.

In short we have made sacrifices to try and get out of the mess. We didn't just arrogantly not pay bills whilst maintaining a luxury squad.

Those efforts must be recognised by the SFA.

I genuinely think an additional transfer ban is unmerited. Maybe a deferred fine is a decent result?

Their arrogance and delusion is unreal. "So much effort was made to cut costs and live within their means" that when their wage problems started they went and signed Craig Beattie and with the help of a biased ref won a Scottish Cup living WAY outside their means. This season they couldn't afford to renew some contracts and yet have sold few players - Ryan McGowan and running out of other names, maybe someone can tell me if it was more than the one.

Some of them are talking about preferring a small fine to a transfer ban as it'd help their fight against relegation.

I can't put this simpler for any yams looking in.


EVEN IF YOU MAKE THE NEW SEASON YOU HAVE NO HOPE OF BEING ABLE TO SIGN ANY NEW PLAYERS AS YOU NEED TO CUT EVEN MORE COSTS.

Even though they supposedly "haven't brought the game into disrepute", they've sung songs about Tony Mowbray's (at the time) rececently deceased wife, alledgedly ripped off the Lithuanian taxpayer, failed to slash costs even when they couldn't pay wage bills on time, consistently paid over 100% of their income on wages, failed to pay wages and bills on time, racked up a ton of debt, their fans have made a banner mocking Petrov's battle with leukemia, hired a convicted sex offender and failed to sack another sex offender and gained an unfair advantage by offering signing targets way, way more than they could ever sustainably afford.


Scottish football does not need nor want Hearts and the lack of sympathy from other teams sets of fans just goes to show the "reputation" that their club has.

[BarneyK]

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I just threw it in, TBH. IF (big IF) it cost £5m, I think it would be a good investment. (That's based on £5m for the club and stadium, by the way).

Gordon McKie hinted that he had a figure in mind for the value of the club. I'm trying to read his mind, and I reckon he can't go much above that. As you say, they have to fund the coming season as well.

It would be a fantastic bit of business perhaps, but as HFCDaveA mentions, surely it would be more beneficial for the Lithuanians to push for Tynie to be sold? That would surely given them a better return than selling as a package at (a CVA percentage of) £5M minus BDO's fees)?

[jgl07]

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I am keen to see what salary budget they are basing that on. I'm assuming that it is a sustainable one.

I don't think that BDO are looking that far ahead. They are hoping to make it through to the start of the season, get UBIG assets unfrozen and sell the club (with or without the ground) so that they can collect their fee.

All this focus on selling season tickets is likely to be self defeating as the seats will be filled largely by £50 or £75 junior season tickets. That will give fewr seast to sell the walk-ups and less day to day income. That is unless the new owners rat on the season tickets?

Assuming that Hearts current (reduced) wage bill is £800,000 per month, it will require a lot of working capital required to make it through till season ticket renewal time at the end of January! Other bills such as police, supplies, etc will have to be paid on the nail as credit is unlikely to be forthcoming.

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It would be a fantastic bit of business perhaps, but as HFCDaveA mentions, surely it would be more beneficial for the Lithuanians to push for Tynie to be sold? That would surely given them a better return than selling as a package at (a CVA percentage of) £5M minus BDO's fees)?

I suspect that (as was the case with Leeds) the ground will be sold separately and initially rented back to Hearts (or Sevco East).

[BarneyK]

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I don't think that BDO are looking that far ahead. They are hoping to make it through to the start of the season, get UBIG assets unfrozen and sell the club (with or without the ground) so that they can collect their fee.

All this focus on selling season tickets is likely to be self defeating as the seats will be filled largely by £50 or £75 junior season tickets. That will give fewr seast to sell the walk-ups and less day to day income. That is unless the new owners rat on the season tickets?

Assuming that Hearts current (reduced) wage bill is £800,000 per month, it will require a lot of working capital required to make it through till season ticket renewal time at the end of January! Other bills such as police, supplies, etc will have to be paid on the nail as credit is unlikely to be forthcoming.


I suspect that (as was the case with Leeds) the ground will be sold separately and initially rented back to Hearts (or Sevco East).

Who's likely to buy the stadium and keep it as a stadium? Especially if they're expecting the yams to be prompt payers of rent. I know it would be new owner, yada yada...but like the Huns, they'll never change. They have a sense of entitlement. They will continue to spend out-with their means because they "are a big team." They have not, and never will have an interest in a level playing field.

[CyberSauzee]

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I would laugh. A fifteen point deduction, and playing with a bunch of kids in a threadbare pool could be the kick up the backside Hearts need to galvanise them to romp through the league and conquer Europe. Let's ask BDO.

Steady on Bob! Don't you know your history?

They've conquered the world twice so what's Europe to them? Locke's golden battalion should easily take care of the measly shower of continental football teams that comes their way.

[jgl07]

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Who's likely to buy the stadium and keep it as a stadium? Especially if they're expecting the yams to be prompt payers of rent. I know it would be new owner, yada yada...but like the Huns, they'll never change. They have a sense of entitlement. They will continue to spend out-with their means because they "are a big team." They have not, and never will have an interest in a level playing field.

I did say initially. That will be for say a one year deal while the development options are considered.

Hearts effectively paid £21 million for Tynecastle when Romanav bought it back from Cala. The Pieman sold it for circa £20 million and the buyback option incurred a penalty. It must have some decent value as a development site especially as the land occupied by the Ticket Office has since been bought from the estate of Wallet Mercenary.

OK the property market has collapsed but not that much.

[poolman]

Is their anybody on here with a GPS tracking device that could locate the Yams container ship with 400,000 tops complete with paedo arm floats

[hibbymick]

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Steady on Bob! Don't you know your history?

They've conquered the world twice so what's Europe to them? Locke's golden battalion should easily take care of the measly shower of continental football teams that comes their way.

Im impressed with your ability to get Locke, golden and shower into your sentence

[sidneyhibbie]

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£400K profit based on playing in the SPL and having the payroll reduced to a bunch of kids plus a handful of senior players sounds quite realistic. The last time Hibs made operating profits was when they had a team of kids + the odd senior player, when Mowbray was the manager.

The problem is that about 2/3 of Hearts' season book income for 2013/14 was swallowed up paying bills incurred the year before. Although you could make a paper profit of £400K for the year to 30 June 2014, any prospective buyer would have to fund a cash deficit of well over £1M. On top of that McKie was saying in the paper that if they gained control they would look to strengthen the squad ASAP in an effort to avoid relegation. All of which would effectively be added to the investment cost of buying the club from the Lithuanians.

Quite interesting that they've set a deadline of 12 July for formal bids when FOH aren't raising any cash from supporters until early August. Looks like all of Hearts' eggs are now in the McKie basket.

Its Liquidation and a newco there pathetic effort to keep the Titanic afloat is laughable

[Hibeesforever]

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I did say initially. That will be for say a one year deal while the development options are considered.

Hearts effectively paid £21 million for Tynecastle when Romanav bought it back from Cala. The Pieman sold it for circa £20 million and the buyback option incurred a penalty. It must have some decent value as a development site especially as the land occupied by the Ticket Office has since been bought from the estate of Wallet Mercenary.

OK the property market has collapsed but not that much.

Great point about the additional land. With a new integrated Tram stop within walking distance, the international developer will be eying Tynie with more than just maroon tinted glasses. Walking to the new hotels and offices at Haymarket has just increased the value of the land considerably.
The shafted depositors in Lithuania ( and it would be nice to hear and see their side of the Romanov rip off) will certainly hope that the property called Heart of Midlothian will realise more than the floating security.

We think Tynecastle is a small ground but if the above is true about ownership then its scale will make it very sought after.

Interesting times, I am now more confident they will make the start of the season but will be enslaved to new owners. That main stand will come down all right....three sided ground ala Bradford City could be end result. 12,000 capacity...not a big team !

[hibbymick]

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Who's likely to buy the stadium and keep it as a stadium? Especially if they're expecting the yams to be prompt payers of rent. I know it would be new owner, yada yada...but like the Huns, they'll never change. They have a sense of entitlement. They will continue to spend out-with their means because they "are a big team." They have not, and never will have an interest in a level playing field.

I wouldnt like to be the new landlord of that hellhole.

[Curly1875]

I see we've made it to page 0762 ;)