Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[Coco Bryce]

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They've not got any income just now at all so is it fair to say this is likely to be a very quick administration then? I just don't see how they'll pay bills when they come in, even if they get rid of every employee.

Yes, this surely is the end game for them now.

[brog]

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For reading addicted insomniacs...

Hearts. An Edinburgh Institution. A bit like RBS. Both institutions pushed the financial boat far too far from the shore. RBS, bailed by the government, the tax payer, continues to trade. The future of Hearts remains in the balance. Perhaps the Edinburgh rate payer should foot the 25 million bill? Or perhaps the UK government should lean on the Lithuanians to foot the bill – all in order for a football club to continue in its present form. A football club, that like RBS was the sole architect in its own downfall. Both examples of the hubris that rages throughout the capitalist free market economic model.
So how should Scottish football judge this sorry mess? On the one hand, having lost Rangers from the league, an argument can be made for protecting another prominent club from folding. This argument is based on very loose assertions that the SPL cannot survive, or is devalued without Hearts. The survival argument is tenuous at best – given that the loss of Rangers was far less damaging than had been predicted. The bottom line is, Hearts as an organisation created their current situation, and it is difficult to see why anyone should pay for their poor management.
Football is an emotive business of course. Sport attracts supporters in a way no other industry quite matches. A contest that epitomises the competitive spirit, it is pride that is at stake for those who pay through the turnstiles. This is the other side of the argument for those interested bystanders watching from the side lines. Apart from the legalities of debt and financial fair play, sporting integrity is what matters most to many of Scotland’s football supporters. Supporters who see their pride damaged on the pitch by opponents gaining unfair financial advantage inevitably have no sympathy for those opponents suffering when the debts are recalled. The supporters of Hibernian have more reason than most to hope for financial justice to be done to their rivals across the city. Years of derby domination by Hearts has been a hard slog for these supporters, in the knowledge that their own club were trying their hardest to make ends meet. The overwhelming sense of superiority held by many Hearts fans in this period, was all down to the financial plan of one man, Vladimir Romanov. That his vision ultimately failed, his businesses bankrupt, and his financial support for Hearts withdrawn, is no direct fault of the Hearts fans, or any employee of the club. Nonetheless by buying into his vision, accepting his wages, shouting from the rooftops at their glory, they cannot now avoid facing whatever fate befalls them – and can expect no sympathy.
The 25 million pounds owed by Hearts to UKIO/UBIG, is ultimately part of a large pool of debt owed to a host of creditors - probably including Lithuanian taxpayers, who have no interest in Hearts or Scottish football. It is a sign of the mean and callous side of human nature, that there are many who would be happy to see these creditors foot the bill for all those players that passed through the gates of Tynecastle. After all they are in Lithuania right? Surely we just send a gun boat to the Baltic Sea and call the whole thing quits. Or perhaps, the organisation responsible for accumulating this debt should be held accountable. If this results in the Stadium being sold, the club being liquidated, then how can this be seen to be in anyway unfair, or even harsh? For sure there will be many people associated with Hearts who will be devastated, many club employees looking for jobs. Is it the Lithuanian creditor who is at fault and should suffer instead? Loss of jobs is always a personal tragedy, and it is an indictment of our society that a person can – through no fault of their own – go from respectable contributor, to drain on society overnight. Once again however it is Hearts financial imprudence that has most directly led to this.
From this observers view point, I hope that a Hearts team plays football, if not now, but in the future. In the meantime, I also hope that they reap what they have sown.

Truly excellent, thanks! Was this you or is it lifted from somewhere? Possibly the best overall summation I've seen.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

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"Who's the Scandinavian Dude ?"

"This is a very complicated case. You know, a lotta ins, a lotta outs, a lotta what-have-yous. And, uh, a lotta strands to keep in my head, man. Lotta strands in old Duder's head. Fortunately, I'm adhering to a pretty strict, uh, drug regimen to keep my mind, you know, uh, limber."

[bingo70]

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I don't think it will work that way. New bills won't hit for at least a couple of weeks (not much point sending them one now), which will give the administrator a little bit of time to assess things - is there a realistic buyer, can they sell (Lithuanian legal situation), what income is there really, etc. If they can get through to the end of July then it could drag on for a longer period with the SPL income paid out.

Fair point, most companies offer 30 day payment terms as well which presumably will help them as well.

Sure I read a quote on here, think it was the pm board though, that when livi got relegated to the third division it was because they couldn't guarantee they'd be able to complete there fixtures, I wonder if the SPL will be looking for guarantees before dishing out any tv money.

[Treadstone]

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That's not right either. The administrator fees are paid by the buyer, but the company has to generate enough income to pay for its ongoing costs incurred from the date of administration. One way of doing that is to cut the ongoing costs by laying off staff.

Do the administrators costs start counting immediately as ongoing costs just in case there is no buyer ?

[Onion]

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They've not got any income just now at all so is it fair to say this is likely to be a very quick administration then? I just don't see how they'll pay bills when they come in, even if they get rid of every employee.

administration will have stopped even the most stupid of Yams from buying season tickets and no one is going to give them credit, so cash flow must be an issue for them. They have no money. The admins will not want to spend £££ working for an insolvent company and will want this wrapped up quickly or at least start selling assets to generate cash. Bottom line: Yams are in a perilous position, especially if BDO are appointed.

[brog]

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About to say the same bingo. They've no money to pay staff now. Liquidation looming?

You're up early S! I posted identical a couple of days ago. Unless they can quickly sell some players, most unlikely, they have no income until start of next season & continual outgoings. I think administrators, will stick their head in (with a hobo clothes peg on their nose) take one look & sniff & declare this is a dead club, sorry institution.
They're doomed!!

[Purehibee_MYB]

Just about to head to bed here in Canada.. It is really quite exciting to wake up and see what more damage has happened to our 'poor' neighbours during the days proceedings

[Onion]

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Do the administrators costs start counting immediately as ongoing costs just in case there is no buyer ?

The Admins will only work if there is a realistic chance of them getting paid through currently cash-flow or the sale of the business as a going concern. If there is no cash or prospective buyers offering realistic money, then liquidation (incl sale of Tynie) will quickly follow.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Perhaps a list of the people shafted by Hearts not paying bills will put an end to all this "proud and famous club" guff. It sickens me that, despite their public disgrace, they continue to cling on to their own myths.

They seem to be going down the road of their big cousins. One of the criticisms of the Huns was their failure to be contrite, and hold their hands up to apologise.

FoH seem to be continuing the line that Hearts are a club with massive potential. Within Scotland, yes they could be occasional contenders (in about 10 years time). But the very fact that they seem to allude to bigger ambitions, suggests to me that their survival plan is to chase the same pipe dreams.

It seems to me that the Yam is more interested in being a big man, than simply having a team to follow. I would urge the sensible fans to do an FC United of Manchester, and start again from the bottom.

Heart of Midlothian is now such a poisoned institution that it should be dismantled once and for all. Their need to be the dominant force in Edinburgh football has totally blinded them to reality. They are the same size of club as us, and all the bluster, arrogance and conceit has cost them a heavy price.

This whole saga is an old fashioned morality tale. It's about two different sets of values, and how they impact on the people that hold them. The wise man built his house upon the rock and all that.

[brog]

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That's not right either. The administrator fees are paid by the buyer, but the company has to generate enough income to pay for its ongoing costs incurred from the date of administration. One way of doing that is to cut the ongoing costs by laying off staff.



Jambo myth of the week seems to be that "Romanov left us £25M debt, which was the same as the Pieman".

Which is true, if you ignore the fact that the Pieman left them with just under £20M in debt. And the fact that he had done a deal to get rid of that debt. Which they then very publicly opposed.

And they owned their ramshackle stadium! With ref to a previous poster I think he's giving Mercer far too much credit by saying his raisin d'être was beating us. There's no doubt he moved in that direction but let's remember he was a rugby supporting FTB whose only rationale in trying to buy Hibs was to make a quick buck through asset stripping, that was as far as his vision went. I sat beside him on a plane from Edinburgh one Sunday about 3 years after his failed bid. Yams had beaten Falkirk 2-1 at PBS day before. He couldn't name either scorer nor half yet he Yam team. Our Rod is an über fan compared to that w!!!!!

[Viva_Palmeiras]

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Truly excellent, thanks! Was this you or is it lifted from somewhere? Possibly the best overall summation I've seen.

Whilst I do accept that Hearts like Rangers have been the architects of their own downfall, there is a theme here throughout football and something Ive raised for a number of years - the role of the football authorities.

After the shock of the On Digital collapse there should have been a realisation across football authorities in this country that the underlying models were unsustainable. If not about sustainability what are the authorities about (rescinding an erroneous red card/blocking goal line technology?)

Rod to his credit learned from the heady days of relative high spend and reigned it in. Some others did too whilst others carried on - who knows maybe Rod was a lone voice tying to get others to listen and move towards a different model?

But when all is said and done i do believe that football authorities should have done a bit better to protect the clubs from themselves. That said it seems they are not geared up for this either in terms of the rule books, capacity or capability. These things amongst others need to be addressed to take things forward IMO.

[Kaiser1962]

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I don't think it will work that way. New bills won't hit for at least a couple of weeks (not much point sending them one now), which will give the administrator a little bit of time to assess things - is there a realistic buyer, can they sell (Lithuanian legal situation), what income is there really, etc. If they can get through to the end of July then it could drag on for a longer period with the SPL income paid out.

So who pays the bills when they do hit?

My understanding is that any such bills will be sent to the admins, from the time they are in place, and then the added to their costs, which get deducted from money raised from the purchaser, or purchasers if the thing is broken up.

[Ozyhibby]

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And they owned their ramshackle stadium! With ref to a previous poster I think he's giving Mercer far too much credit by saying his raisin d'être was beating us. There's no doubt he moved in that direction but let's remember he was a rugby supporting FTB whose only rationale in trying to buy Hibs was to make a quick buck through asset stripping, that was as far as his vision went. I sat beside him on a plane from Edinburgh one Sunday about 3 years after his failed bid. Yams had beaten Falkirk 2-1 at PBS day before. He couldn't name either scorer nor half yet he Yam team. Our Rod is an über fan compared to that w!!!!!

Our Rod is an uber fan compared to most on here. He lives and breaths Hibs in a way most of us never could. He could almost certainly earn more money away from Easter road but chooses to stay because he loves the job. A real uber fan.
Doesn't mean we don't get stuck into him if we think he's making the wrong decision though. We're not Yams after all.

[Finbar]

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'Whistle in the wind '.. Apparently is a complex negotiating term to be used when trying to persuade a foreign bank not to sell your land and sell your players but I wouldn't understand #allverycomplex

The yams have really landed on their feet with this bright cookie

Whistling in the wind? Is that like pissing in the dark?

[Spike Mandela]

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..... at this rate, the UKIO administrator will have to pay FOH to take Tynie of their hands.

Foundation chairman Ian Murray MP warned Valnetas that there would have to be a compromise over their twin desires to preserving Hearts as a going concern and defending the interests of Ukio’s creditors. “They did say that they wanted Hearts to be a going concern – they have to protect what they have got,” he said. “What do they have at the moment? They have a club in administration and a stadium worth £4m.

“They can whistle in the wind, really. They have to be careful that they don’t walk away with nothing and take the club with them.”

http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-ev...fate-1-2970172

To be fair, I suppose the stadium is worth less than £4M, but the land value is worth a wee bit more.

GGTTH

I realise that Ian Murray should be the first port of call for the Lithuanian administrators when it comes to any valuations, however, should they do something reckless like get their own indepenent assessor of the valuation and he in turn reports the value would be a great deal more surely they would fall in to the trap and try to sell it off to property developers to get the best return for the creditors.

It is lucky they have a man of the stature and intellect of Murray to keep them right.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

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You're up early S! I posted identical a couple of days ago. Unless they can quickly sell some players, most unlikely, they have no income until start of next season & continual outgoings. I think administrators, will stick their head in (with a hobo clothes peg on their nose) take one look & sniff & declare this is a dead club, sorry institution.
They're doomed!!

I suppose with the Internet there's probably a lot of "unseen work" but in comparison with HOH are you surprised at the lack of mobilisation B? I suppose in some way HOH had an adversary to rally and galvanise support against whereas many Hearts minded fools have been in bed with Vlad throughout and hung in there whilst they limped along...

[bingo70]

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So who pays the bills when they do hit?

My understanding is that any such bills will be sent to the admins, from the time they are in place, and then the added to their costs, which get deducted from money raised from the purchaser, or purchasers if the thing is broken up.

Pretty sure that the bills get sent to the administrator but they need to pay from whatever is in the companies bank account.

[PapillonVert]

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About to say the same bingo. They've no money to pay staff now. Liquidation looming?

Or VAT. Think I read somewhere recently they have £100,000 due at end of June.

[Kaiser1962]

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Whilst I do accept that Hearts like Rangers have been the architects of their own downfall, there is a theme here throughout football and something Ive raised for a number of years - the role of the football authorities.

The problem with football is that cheating is endemic and accepted as part of the game, be it on the field or in the boardroom. Any punishments in football are lenient in the extreme which, in turn, makes the cheating viable.

Hearts being the latest example in that the vast majority of Hearts fans (and pundits) portray Hearts as the victims and fully expect that the club will emerge intact and debt free. And its not beyond the realms of possibility that they do so. They even have a sitting MP and Lord fighting their corner despite there very dubious financial dealing.

[greenpaper55]

It would seem there is a realistic chance of liquidation now and even some on the dark side are starting to believe it could happen but when you get roasters like this asking questions you get their general level of intelligence


"What happens if we are liquidated after the season starts?

Do we have to sit out a season? "


Naw ya plumb you get to sit out for ever !.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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I realise that Ian Murray should be the first port of call for the Lithuanian administrators when it comes to any valuations, however, should they do something reckless like get their own indepenent assessor of the valuation and he in turn reports the value would be a great deal more surely they would fall in to the trap and try to sell it off to property developers to get the best return for the creditors.

It is lucky they have a man of the stature and intellect of Murray to keep them right.

Just hope tiredness doesn't get the better of him.

[PapillonVert]

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Pretty sure that the bills get sent to the administrator but they need to pay from whatever is in the companies bank account.

A big fat ZERO, by all accounts!

Do they even have a bank account?

[Craig_in_Prague]

They had large debts, high wages and a crippling stadium pre Romanov.
After 7-8 years of wages > turnover, this club deserves nothing but to be shut down.
As posted by Desantos, their "real" debt is technically over 60M.
Robbo et all can keep bemoaning those pesky "bills" that keep falling due, but I am afraid their downfall is nothing to do with recent bills or current lack of cash - but quite simply +20 years of trading way beyond their means.
Unlike Rangers, I am not sure they'll just waltz into the Scottish Leagues and win lower leagues at a canter.

They are in serious trouble, they have no cash and UKIO have a huge hole to fill and want the best return they can get from Hearts. That surely will be liquidation & the sale of the PBS. There are no real bidders and FOH appear to be giving them some hope, but I am afraid our little pink sheep, it is nothing but false hope.

Turn the lights off on the way out please (or now, as you cannae pay the bills lol).

[bingo70]

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A big fat ZERO, by all accounts!

Do they even have a bank account?

Probably one of those shady post office cash card accounts

[Treadstone]

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I suppose with the Internet there's probably a lot of "unseen work" but in comparison with HOH are you surprised at the lack of mobilisation B? I suppose in some way HOH had an adversary to rally and galvanise support against whereas many Hearts minded fools have been in bed with Vlad throughout and hung in there whilst they limped along...

Hands off Hibs was an extraordinary achievement at a time when it was word of mouth or a landline phone call. Was going to post something like this when someone was talking about Kenny McLean the other day on here.

I remember getting my ticket for the 93 league cup final from that wee ticket office in Easter Road (the actual street) near the police box. Who sold me my ticket ? Kenny McLean that's who! Cannae see any of the FoH mob being that dedicated especially when there's a chance to get yourself on the telly or radio.

Gone but not forgotten Kenny.

[hibbymac]

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They had large debts, high wages and a crippling stadium pre Romanov.
After 7-8 years of wages > turnover, this club deserves nothing but to be shut down.
As posted by Desantos, their "real" debt is technically over 60M.
Robbo et all can keep bemoaning those pesky "bills" that keep falling due, but I am afraid their downfall is nothing to do with recent bills or current lack of cash - but quite simply +20 years of trading way beyond their means.
Unlike Rangers, I am not sure they'll just waltz into the Scottish Leagues and win lower leagues at a canter.

They are in serious trouble, they have no cash and UKIO have a huge hole to fill and want the best return they can get from Hearts. That surely will be liquidation & the sale of the PBS. There are no real bidders and FOH appear to be giving them some hope, but I am afraid our little pink sheep, it is nothing but false hope.

Turn the lights off on the way out please (or now, as you cannae pay the bills lol).

Hey, it's all been worth it, .... according to a "fans leader" Here

[Treadstone]

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Hey, it's all been worth it, .... according to a "fans leader" Here

He is an absolute roaster. His twitter is absolutely bitter.

[H18sry]

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Hey, it's all been worth it, .... according to a "fans leader" Here

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He is an absolute roaster. His twitter is absolutely bitter.

He is a decent guy, I've known him for a good few years, and he will be hurting just like we hurt in the past.

[frazeHFC]

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Hey, it's all been worth it, .... according to a "fans leader" Here

Someone tried to stick up for the yams yesterday by saying to me that at least they won the final, but when I told him it was with players they can't afford and is leading to their death it shut him up.