Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[tomf]

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Just had a read whilst sat on the train. They really do not get it at all. It's not bitterness, it's vindication.

This "5-1" crap is the same as Lance Armstrong saying "Well I won 7 tour de frances in a row". Both parties are now facing their comeuppance.

This is one of the best comments I have read. It is absolutely accurate and every Hibs fan appreciates that they are reaping what they sowed. If they feel cheated by Romanov then they might feel a little less comfortable about the scoreline they are so proud of and understand where a lot of our feelings are coming from. I appreciate that there is a certain amount of gloating going on at the moment...but I am sure that the Hearts fans will stop it one day! I posted what I thought was a reasonably sensible comment here last week and it seemed to upset them...now look what has happened...I am just worried in case I might have caused all of this. I feel like s**t.

[bingo70]

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The company in admin has protection from creditors. Thats the whole point.

Thought administrators weren't allowed to accrue new debts though?

[Kaiser1962]

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Thought administrators weren't allowed to accrue new debts though?

There will be running costs associated with the business.

[FranckSuzy]

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The financial guru is back...in some strange way i feel that if it were not for CWG, CG, GG, PTS, Sergey and a few other notables whose names elude me at the moment, then this beautiful story might never have happened.

on behalf of all . netters....'We Salute You!'....your indefatigability in providing us with a true picture of what has been happening at the PBS against a backdrop of lazy journalism, lying directors and deluded supporters make you all lifetime Hibs legends in my eyes.

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Il second that. Many thanks to all mentioned. As someone who really doesn't have a clue about financial matters, the insight you guys have provided has given me and many others an understanding of how grave their situation really is

[clerriehibs]

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This is one of the best comments I have read. It is absolutely accurate and every Hibs fan appreciates that they are reaping what they sowed. If they feel cheated by Romanov then they might feel a little less comfortable about the scoreline they are so proud of and understand where a lot of our feelings are coming from. I appreciate that there is a certain amount of gloating going on at the moment...but I am sure that the Hearts fans will stop it one day! I posted what I thought was a reasonably sensible comment here last week and it seemed to upset them...now look what has happened...I am just worried in case I might have caused all of this. I feel like s**t.

They don't; nor do they feel cheated by wallet mercer, who started the financial skulduggery. Apparently, it's all the pieman's fault ... one of their own, and possibly someone who really did try to resolve their problems. But it's his fault.

[hibsmum]

Fed up hearing about the institution, this institution has nothing to do with sport!!

[Springbank]

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First ever post from Drumlanrig, couldn't resist it anymore!

This thread has just made me so happy....blub blub!

Never thought that it could be like this...... sniff, sniff blub !

On train to Cheltenham and gonna celebrate with a large dram on arrival ... I'm overcome by emulsion!!

Wot dram should I have??

Spring bank fifteen year old

Numerous reasons

1) amazing malt
2) Campbeltown malt (see above - may influence kpmg)
3) green and black label
4) fifteen
5) one five
6) 15
And not a minus fifteen or a childish hand gesture in sight!

Slainte!!

[Springbank]

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Between the two administrators, who is the one more likely to (1) liquidate Hearts and (2) sell Tynecastle Stadium?

Bump!

Good question - any guesses?

[Hibernia Na Eir]

There really is no option but the Big 'L'.

Its coming your way Hertz.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Does a creditor part secured like Ukio Bankas seem to be ( owed £15 million and having £6.8 million of it secured ) not get a vote for the unsecured part of the debt ?

They probably do.

That said, I am not trusting what is in the public domain at the moment.

As others have said, the debt levels are taken from the 2012 accounts, as is the nature of the securities. It wouldn't surprise me if securities have been changed or increased, and not lodged at Companies House. It will be up to the administrator to assess that; remember that D&P said, on their appointment, that one of their first tasks was to do exactly that.

And, whoever called me a guru.....I refute that. Gurus are Sikh, and I'm not laying myself open to criticism from some of the more rabid posters on here.

[mca]

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There will be running costs associated with the business.

And i thought the Admin Would or Could - Procede straight to Liquidation.. if there was Not enough Ready Funds or incoming Income !!! to keep the club running in the meantime.. ???

[Viva_Palmeiras]

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If your going to keep speaking dirty like this Im going to have to close my blinds.

[jgl07]

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The company in admin has protection from creditors. Thats the whole point.

But they still have to pay day to day expenses. They may be protected from paying previous utility bills but if they want electricity from now on they will have to pay for it, possibly in advance. Anyone got any 'Power Kerds'? If there is no money coming in the administrators will not be able to maintain Hearts as a going concern.

Rangers had £3-4 million in the bank when they went into administration. They were also in season so there was matchday income from visiting support and walk-ups.

Hearts need to spend a lot on maintenance on that crumbling old stand or their safety certificate will be gone. If they want to retain any playing staff they will have to pay them. I would guess that the Police will require payment up front if Hearts last into the start of next season.

I suspect that once BDO/KPMG see the full extent of the situation they will go for liquidation right away.

[Eyrie]

Maybe I'm missing something, but four things appeal to me

1 - If the PBS has been pledged for £6.8m then that has to be the minimum value attached to the Yams. KPMG can't sell them with the stadium for less than that because I assume that the liquidators for Ukio Bankas could turn around and call in the security, giving them ownership of the property. And they will have no qualms about seeking an open market sale and inviting bids from developers.

2 - So with any cosy stitch up between KMGP and Save Hearts In Trouble ruled out, Ian "I'm an MP" Murray and his mates will have to raise a very large amount of cash to purchase the stadium. But no-one will lend on the basis of pledges, some of which are bogus (and well done!) and the rest of which may not agree to sign up or can cancel at any time. If they hope for a wealthy fan (eg Ann Budge) to lend the Save Hearts In Trouble bid the money, then why would the ordinary fans pay their pledges to refund a millionaire?

3 - And if Save Hearts In Trouble do manage to get ownership of the club (with or without the PBS), they will still need to fund the running of the club. They'd have to honour the existing season tickets due to the bad feeling any cancellation would cause, which means they're reliant on walk ups and pledges. The result will be a team destined for relegation, and that will further depress attendances after the initial surge of defiance.

4 - The relegated Yams won't come straight back up as they'll be in the same Division One in 2014/15 as Sevco Huns, so they'll need to fund at least one more year out of the SPL. That in turn will hamstring them on their eventual return due to the level of debt they will incur just by trying to operate as a club.

[CropleyWasGod]

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And i thought the Admin Would or Could - Procede straight to Liquidation.. if there was Not enough Ready Funds or incoming Income !!! to keep the club running in the meantime.. ???

Part of the admin's job is to secure a better return for creditors than they could get in liquidation. If he thinks this is impossible, after reviewing the situation, then liquidation will be the next step.

However, it gets messier. In order to do his job, I think he has to take possession of HMFC's shares. Whilst UBIG's assets are frozen, he won't be able to do that.

[mca]

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There will be running costs associated with the business.

Apparently The Pitch.. That Little Poor Grass Bit In the MIDDLE of All This keek.. Actually Requires Upkeep.. approx 2k a week with staff !! ....But - With Extra Seeding needed to Get Pitch Playable - Until The New Season Starts..... .. oh. and wee tractor needs diesel ..

[clerriehibs]

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Part of the admin's job is to secure a better return for creditors than they could get in liquidation. If he thinks this is impossible, after reviewing the situation, then liquidation will be the next step.

However, it gets messier. In order to do his job, I think he has to take possession of HMFC's shares. Whilst UBIG's assets are frozen, he won't be able to do that.

Some of the current owners of "shares" can't take possession of them either!

[Andy74]

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Maybe I'm missing something, but four things appeal to me

1 - If the PBS has been pledged for £6.8m then that has to be the minimum value attached to the Yams. KPMG can't sell them with the stadium for less than that because I assume that the liquidators for Ukio Bankas could turn around and call in the security, giving them ownership of the property. And they will have no qualms about seeking an open market sale and inviting bids from developers.

2 - So with any cosy stitch up between KMGP and Save Hearts In Trouble ruled out, Ian "I'm an MP" Murray and his mates will have to raise a very large amount of cash to purchase the stadium. But no-one will lend on the basis of pledges, some of which are bogus (and well done!) and the rest of which may not agree to sign up or can cancel at any time. If they hope for a wealthy fan (eg Ann Budge) to lend the Save Hearts In Trouble bid the money, then why would the ordinary fans pay their pledges to refund a millionaire?

3 - And if Save Hearts In Trouble do manage to get ownership of the club (with or without the PBS), they will still need to fund the running of the club. They'd have to honour the existing season tickets due to the bad feeling any cancellation would cause, which means they're reliant on walk ups and pledges. The result will be a team destined for relegation, and that will further depress attendances after the initial surge of defiance.

4 - The relegated Yams won't come straight back up as they'll be in the same Division One in 2014/15 as Sevco Huns, so they'll need to fund at least one more year out of the SPL. That in turn will hamstring them on their eventual return due to the level of debt they will incur just by trying to operate as a club.

The security is suggested to fall away with administration according to some insolvency gadge in the News.

[PatHead]

Any chance the new firm of Caversham, Cropley and Desantos can be appointed.

[Deansy]

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What about the video in that report ? Whalearses laddie, WHY ?

"In the 80's 'The Pink-Fluffies' were a model of financial prudence"

i cannot believe that (whoever the commentator is) actually made THAT statement !!. The Fat cardigan-wearing, Tory Fat-Boy, Wallace Mercer, was the one who STARTED their 'Financial Football' business-model !. HE was the one who who started the '3rd-Force' garbage, HE was the one obsessed that they would never, ever lie down to us after we had regularly ripped them for 99% of the 70's !!

Their derby-fortunes changed dramatically once he took over - did they have some miraculous managers/trainers/super-football plan etc because if they did, these people or plans would be world-renowned / household names whose system would be copied by clubs everywhere !!

NO - Mercer started the year-in, year-out, season-after-season LOSSES !!. Every season that debt increased due to him buying players they could NOT afford - all, IMHO, with a view to beat US - not seriously challenging for leagues or cups, just to be 'No.1 in Edinburgh' !!. Robinson continued with this 'Business-Model' and Vlad even strengthened it further !!

30 years later, they are now paying the price for Mercer's ............... vision !!

[Ozyhibby]

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Apparently The Pitch.. That Little Poor Grass Bit In the MIDDLE of All This keek.. Actually Requires Upkeep.. approx 2k a week with staff !! ....But - With Extra Seeding needed to Get Pitch Playable - Until The New Season Starts..... .. oh. and wee tractor needs diesel ..

They usually play the ball high above the grass anyway.

[duffers]

Latest from BBC....


@BBCBMcLauchlin: The offer was from the Scandinavian group who were willing to hand over £500k in return for a share of future transfer fees.#bbcsportscot

[jaf]

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I burst out laughing when he said that. The FoH guy was presenting himself as a financial expert but came over as a complete and utter trumpet. He says FoH are the only option left. On the basis of his performance tonight I do hope so!! Under FoH it will be Hearts 2013 FC playing Lowland League home games at Creamery Park, Bathgate.

No having that just roond from my house, they can jog on up to almondvale if they want but if they pitch up at creamery park my house goes on the market!!

It's bad enough watching Bathgate play kelty hearts as it is

[God Petrie]

Hahaha £500k.

[SmashinGlass]

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The security is suggested to fall away with administration according to some insolvency gadge in the News.

The security doesn't (and won't) fall away, as such. Basically, an administrator can deal with the asset unencumbered by the security but must account to the secured creditor with the proceeds. In practice what normally happens with oversecured property in administrations is that the security holder and insolvency practitioner agree a fee in advance of the sale, which is then deducted from the proceeds before these are passed to the security holder. Any remaining balance falls in as an unsecured claim.

[clerriehibs]

Given that UBIG would appear to be unhappy that "the club" want to appoint KPMG ... who at "the club" decided, or was even authorised, to go for admin? Surely that decision would have had to come from UBIG, being the majority shareholders?

[CropleyWasGod]

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The security is suggested to fall away with administration according to some insolvency gadge in the News.

Utter bulldust, IMHO

Do you have a link? It may be bad journalism.

[7062]

What happens with the wages that were due last week?

When they are in admin do the players become creditors and can therefore not expect hearts to even try to pay them?

[Sas_The_Hibby]

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Given that UBIG would appear to be unhappy that "the club" want to appoint KPMG ... who at "the club" decided, or was even authorised, to go for admin? Surely that decision would have had to come from UBIG, being the majority shareholders?

They can't even manage to go into administration when they try to!!

[Leithenhibby]

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Given that UBIG would appear to be unhappy that "the club" want to appoint KPMG ... who at "the club" decided, or was even authorised, to go for admin? Surely that decision would have had to come from UBIG, being the majority shareholders?

As I understand it, you have to have Directors to file for Admin, so how could UBIG call this one?

Clear as mud

As an after thought, when UBIG go down, do they become UB bitch?