Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[brog]

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As they have not paid all of this tax money will ( or can ) the SPL inflict another transfer ban or some such sanction

But going by their track record I would'nt think they will do anything

They have 28 days from the due date, if this is indeed PAYE, to pay in full or face sanctions. Problem is no one knows when the due date was. If Yams have a shred of honour however, I know, I know, or even common sense, they will have spoken to SPL by now. You're spot on that SPL need to act now, 2013/14 fixtures are imminent.

[Treadstone]

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Given the bank of Lithuanian had to carry out a full audit to take away Ukio Bankas banking license they will know exactly UBIG debts to Ukio bankas and given the UBIG will be declared insolvent 30 days from their request on 16 May 2013 that will be on 15 June 2013 which is a Saturday. So think insolvency/Bankruptcy will be declared officially by a court start of next week.


Must get on with some work now!

What are we thinking to desantos statement guys ? Will the SPL take the bankruptcy from the 16th May and an 18pt deduction and relegation or 15th June (or later) and 15pts for the coming season and still in the SPL ?

I know what I think will happen. Obviously they can't do anything until they have crossed the eyes and milked the teas.

[Jay]

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Just seen 4 blokes with paint scrappers walking into tynecastle.

I am sitting in asda cafe and actually laughed out loud at this blackpool. I am getting some very funny looks!

[Gus Fring]

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They have 28 days from the due date, if this is indeed PAYE, to pay in full or face sanctions. Problem is no one knows when the due date was. If Yams have a shred of honour however, I know, I know, or even common sense, they will have spoken to SPL by now. You're spot on that SPL need to act now, 2013/14 fixtures are imminent.

The SPL haven't got anything concrete to act on. There has still been no official confirmation of this bill, in fact those that are reporting on it can't even come to a consensus on what it's for and how much has been paid. The SPL board can't act on something that might happen because the Yams would just march right into court and have the decision overruled. That would then draw the ire of UEFA and FIFA who are not exactly fans of clubs taking governing bodies to court, particuarly when the club wins!

The SPL are taking the only action available to them which is sitting back and watching it all happen. If Hearts are confirmed, beyond reasonable doubt, to have broken the rules, then they will act. But as it stands nobody should want the SPL to be the ones responsible for accelerating Hearts demise because that causes more trouble in the future than it's worth.

[Saorsa]

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What are we thinking to desantos statement guys ? Will the SPL take the bankruptcy from the 16th May and an 18pt deduction and relegation or 15th June (or later) and 15pts for the coming season and still in the SPL ?

I know what I think will happen. Obviously they can't do anything until they have crossed the eyes and milked the teas.

If the SPL had any sense they should surely try and back date it tae get them out the league before they cause more problems further down the line when they go pop.

[jonty]

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I am sitting in asda cafe and actually laughed out loud at this blackpool. I am getting some very funny looks!

You haven't tucked your dress into your knickers have you?

[Leishy1995]

I'm happy, they have almost died.

[YehButNoBut]

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The SPL haven't got anything concrete to act on. There has still been no official confirmation of this bill, in fact those that are reporting on it can't even come to a consensus on what it's for and how much has been paid. The SPL board can't act on something that might happen because the Yams would just march right into court and have the decision overruled. That would then draw the ire of UEFA and FIFA who are not exactly fans of clubs taking governing bodies to court, particuarly when the club wins!

The SPL are taking the only action available to them which is sitting back and watching it all happen. If Hearts are confirmed, beyond reasonable doubt, to have broken the rules, then they will act. But as it stands nobody should want the SPL to be the ones responsible for accelerating Hearts demise because that causes more trouble in the future than it's worth.

I seriously doubt they would be able to afford to do that.

[big-mo]

Having read some of the rubbish being posted on the £100k tax money story in the Scotsman, one of the posters was accepting that the Lith' bank and Investment group were going bust, but they saw this as a positive in that Hearts could emerge debt free having been bought by FoH for £3m to £5m from the Lith' administrators. There was also a suggestion that the administrator would hold onto the stadium and rent it back to the new Hearts, because this would make sense in that they would have guaranteed income coming back to them over a number of years. (no guarantee if they look at their past record on paying for things)

I can see a few flaws in this scenario, firstly the Lith' administrators will have no sentimental or local loyalty to the club and will only be looking to gain the most return for the banks creditors. Any administrators will not been looking to have a long term attachment to any of the banks assets. So what can they do with Hearts? There is a debt of between £15m to £25m outstanding on the club, they will want to realise as much of this as possible. Sell the club as a whole, Gary Lock stock and barrel, stadium, players etc. But the FoH have max £5m to spend. So Administrators could sell the stadium for maybe £7m, maybe more maybe less, they can then sell the club name and players etc, but how much could they get for that? £3m to £5m? The new Hearts could rent back the old stadium from the new owners, that is if they have not redeveloped it, alternatively they will have to find a new home, Murrayfield? New stadium built by the council? Or attempt to raise the money to build their own new ground?

I can see them surviving in the SPL for this upcoming season anyway, but things will not be any easier in the day and years to come.

[EdinMike]

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What are we thinking to desantos statement guys ? Will the SPL take the bankruptcy from the 16th May and an 18pt deduction and relegation or 15th June (or later) and 15pts for the coming season and still in the SPL ?

I know what I think will happen. Obviously they can't do anything until they have crossed the eyes and milked the teas.

They will kick their heels until they HAVE to do something like Sevco. When is their next meeting out of curiosity ? I'm thinking they will be a major talking point. I would hope anyway...

[Springbank]

The best outcome for me, as a Hibee, is hearts being bought by foh (their problems are only just beginning) but losing tynecastle, renting out of Livingston, and being demoralised in a long term downward spiral of poor players, heavy defeats (especially in derbies), dwindling crowds at almondvale, and a slow demise.

The opposite of sevco who were able to ride the PR wave of "they're all out to get us" by starting low (but relatively in tact) and gaining momentum through the leagues.

I want a Shan wee hmfc getting gubbed at Easter road in 13/14

[Saorsa]

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The best outcome for me, as a Hibee, is hearts being bought by foh (their problems are only just beginning) but losing tynecastle, renting out of Livingston, and being demoralised in a long term downward spiral of poor players, heavy defeats (especially in derbies), dwindling crowds at almondvale, and a slow demise.

The opposite of sevco who were able to ride the PR wave of "they're all out to get us" by starting low (but relatively in tact) and gaining momentum through the leagues.

I want a Shan wee hmfc getting gubbed at Easter road in 13/14

​The best outcome for me, as a Hibee, is tae see them completely wiped out

[Jay]

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You haven't tucked your dress into your knickers have you?

Dress? I'm not getting married again!

[Treadstone]

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​The best outcome for me, as a Hibee, is tae see them completely wiped out

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The best outcome for me, as a Hibee, is hearts being bought by foh (their problems are only just beginning) but losing tynecastle, renting out of Livingston, and being demoralised in a long term downward spiral of poor players, heavy defeats (especially in derbies), dwindling crowds at almondvale, and a slow demise.

The opposite of sevco who were able to ride the PR wave of "they're all out to get us" by starting low (but relatively in tact) and gaining momentum through the leagues.

I want a Shan wee hmfc getting gubbed at Easter road in 13/14

DDs scenario all the way for me but Springbanks isn't bad either.

[Caversham Green]

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What are we thinking to desantos statement guys ? Will the SPL take the bankruptcy from the 16th May and an 18pt deduction and relegation or 15th June (or later) and 15pts for the coming season and still in the SPL ?

I know what I think will happen. Obviously they can't do anything until they have crossed the eyes and milked the teas.

I maintain that they had the chance to relegate HoMFC when UBIG put themselves on the insolvency list, because that could be argued to be an insolvency event within the SPL definition. They also had the chance to rule that no points deduction should be levied as a result of UBIG's insolvency as the rules appear to allow discretion.

I reckon they might have taken the view that a points deduction last year would have been harsh in the circumstances because it gave HoMFC no chance to play their way out of relegation - I doubt if they'll reverse the decision now. However, they didn't take the second option because they do intend to punish HoMFC but still give them a fighting chance of staying up, so it will be a 15 point deduction next season. From a neutral's point (i.e. if it was any club other than HoMFC) of view that would strike me as a fair way to deal with it.

[Springbank]

Totally take your point dd

I'm just looking for a spot of payback on the park before they shrivel out the picture, unloved and unsupported.

[WestEndHibee]

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The best outcome for me, as a Hibee, is hearts being bought by foh (their problems are only just beginning) but losing tynecastle, renting out of Livingston, and being demoralised in a long term downward spiral of poor players, heavy defeats (especially in derbies), dwindling crowds at almondvale, and a slow demise.

The opposite of sevco who were able to ride the PR wave of "they're all out to get us" by starting low (but relatively in tact) and gaining momentum through the leagues.

I want a Shan wee hmfc getting gubbed at Easter road in 13/14

I used to quite enjoy the train to almondvale followed by 500 hibees marching through the shopping centre as the quickest way through to the stadium, it would be class for a derby!

[ian cruise]

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The best outcome for me, as a Hibee, is hearts being bought by foh (their problems are only just beginning) but losing tynecastle, renting out of Livingston, and being demoralised in a long term downward spiral of poor players, heavy defeats (especially in derbies), dwindling crowds at almondvale, and a slow demise.

The opposite of sevco who were able to ride the PR wave of "they're all out to get us" by starting low (but relatively in tact) and gaining momentum through the leagues.

I want a Shan wee hmfc getting gubbed at Easter road in 13/14

That's what I want. Let them really see what all their years of financial doping has cost them. Just disappearing means they'll act like victims. This means we get to right some wrongs.

[Just_Jimmy]

@edinburghsport: Ukio Bankas to be liquidated after court in Lithuania sanctions it. Hearts owe Ukio £15m

[Saorsa]

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I maintain that they had the chance to relegate HoMFC when UBIG put themselves on the insolvency list, because that could be argued to be an insolvency event within the SPL definition. They also had the chance to rule that no points deduction should be levied as a result of UBIG's insolvency as the rules appear to allow discretion.

I reckon they might have taken the view that a points deduction last year would have been harsh in the circumstances because it gave HoMFC no chance to play their way out of relegation - I doubt if they'll reverse the decision now. However, they didn't take the second option because they do intend to punish HoMFC but still give them a fighting chance of staying up, so it will be a 15 point deduction next season. From a neutral's point (i.e. if it was any club other than HoMFC) of view that would strike me as a fair way to deal with it.

or leave them in the league tae **** it up when they do go bust if they make it that far of course. I'm kind of hoping they do get that far just tae show up the buffoons at the SPL for the shower of erseholes they are. They should have been gotten rid of.

[The Leith Dutch]

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Having read some of the rubbish being posted on the £100k tax money story in the Scotsman, one of the posters was accepting that the Lith' bank and Investment group were going bust, but they saw this as a positive in that Hearts could emerge debt free having been bought by FoH for £3m to £5m from the Lith' administrators. There was also a suggestion that the administrator would hold onto the stadium and rent it back to the new Hearts, because this would make sense in that they would have guaranteed income coming back to them over a number of years. (no guarantee if they look at their past record on paying for things)

I can see a few flaws in this scenario, firstly the Lith' administrators will have no sentimental or local loyalty to the club and will only be looking to gain the most return for the banks creditors. Any administrators will not been looking to have a long term attachment to any of the banks assets. So what can they do with Hearts? There is a debt of between £15m to £25m outstanding on the club, they will want to realise as much of this as possible. Sell the club as a whole, Gary Lock stock and barrel, stadium, players etc. But the FoH have max £5m to spend. So Administrators could sell the stadium for maybe £7m, maybe more maybe less, they can then sell the club name and players etc, but how much could they get for that? £3m to £5m? The new Hearts could rent back the old stadium from the new owners, that is if they have not redeveloped it, alternatively they will have to find a new home, Murrayfield? New stadium built by the council? Or attempt to raise the money to build their own new ground?

I can see them surviving in the SPL for this upcoming season anyway, but things will not be any easier in the day and years to come.

Looking at this there are a couple of things that strike me -

1) The yams as a "football" club will be sold to someone wanting to continue running them as a football club as long as there is an offer (a proper offer using actual money rather than promises) unless there is no offer on the table that is greater than whatever assets the club owns can raise on the open market.

Not sure what that minimum amount would be but it strikes me that it won't be much more than the
3-5 million suggested above.

Whether FoH can raise this, prove they've raised it or whatever is another matter but it suggests they will be sold as a football club.

2) What are the SPL rules regarding stadium standards and stadium ownership and what would it cost them to get somewhere to play that met those rules?

3) Can points 1 and 2 be resolved in time for them to still be in the SPL?

If the answer to 3 is yes then I'd imagine we'll see a financially troubled hearts in the SPL under new ownership. probably without a stadium of their own and with a points deficit at season start.

If they were to become a saleable entity in time to be in the SPL then I can't see there failing to be an offer for them as a whole that is not at least as much as their "assets" :(

I really want someone to tell me I'm wrong now as this does not sem like a fit and proper punishment for years of cheating.

[PatHead]

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Having read some of the rubbish being posted on the £100k tax money story in the Scotsman, one of the posters was accepting that the Lith' bank and Investment group were going bust, but they saw this as a positive in that Hearts could emerge debt free having been bought by FoH for £3m to £5m from the Lith' administrators. There was also a suggestion that the administrator would hold onto the stadium and rent it back to the new Hearts, because this would make sense in that they would have guaranteed income coming back to them over a number of years. (no guarantee if they look at their past record on paying for things)

I can see a few flaws in this scenario, firstly the Lith' administrators will have no sentimental or local loyalty to the club and will only be looking to gain the most return for the banks creditors. Any administrators will not been looking to have a long term attachment to any of the banks assets. So what can they do with Hearts? There is a debt of between £15m to £25m outstanding on the club, they will want to realise as much of this as possible. Sell the club as a whole, Gary Lock stock and barrel, stadium, players etc. But the FoH have max £5m to spend. So Administrators could sell the stadium for maybe £7m, maybe more maybe less, they can then sell the club name and players etc, but how much could they get for that? £3m to £5m? The new Hearts could rent back the old stadium from the new owners, that is if they have not redeveloped it, alternatively they will have to find a new home, Murrayfield? New stadium built by the council? Or attempt to raise the money to build their own new ground?

I can see them surviving in the SPL for this upcoming season anyway, but things will not be any easier in the day and years to come.

The big flaw in the above scenario is that FoH (does that stand for (F@##) off Hearts?) do not have a pot to pee in far less £3-£5m. They are doomed I tell ye..................

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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​The best outcome for me, as a Hibee, is tae see them completely wiped out

Thats my hope too! Then in their final years they can all sit in their pish stained breeks in a wee corner of a pub nursing a nip and half pint whilst harking back to 19/5/12 whilst their grandkids go about the business of supporting the only team in the capital!

[brog]

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The SPL haven't got anything concrete to act on. There has still been no official confirmation of this bill, in fact those that are reporting on it can't even come to a consensus on what it's for and how much has been paid. The SPL board can't act on something that might happen because the Yams would just march right into court and have the decision overruled. That would then draw the ire of UEFA and FIFA who are not exactly fans of clubs taking governing bodies to court, particuarly when the club wins!

The SPL are taking the only action available to them which is sitting back and watching it all happen. If Hearts are confirmed, beyond reasonable doubt, to have broken the rules, then they will act. But as it stands nobody should want the SPL to be the ones responsible for accelerating Hearts demise because that causes more trouble in the future than it's worth.

I believe there's now concensus that it's PAYE, the Scotsman who were out of step have changed their story, & I think even Cav would now probably accept there was a tax bill which has not been paid in full.
I recognise SPL can't apply sanctions yet but they would have to be even more stupid than their reputation if they're not carefully watching & discussing with Yams their current financial situation. The last thing they will want is to rip up a fixture list shortly after having issued it. Mind you, I don't think there's any chance of Yams paying wages in next few days so unless the whole staff keep quiet that event will trigger sanctions regardless.

[essexhibee]

So what does Ukio being liquidated mean for hearts? Does Lithuania come after them for the 15mil they owe?

[Gus Fring]

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So what does Ukio being liquidated mean for hearts? Does Lithuania come after them for the 15mil they owe?

That's one possible outcome, yes. Hearts fans will tell you they are miles down the list and there's nothing to worry about but that might not be the case. Ukio's liquidators can sell Tynecastle from under them without any real input from the Yams.

In terms of Tynecastle, the pin has been pulled we just don't know how long the fuse is.

[Aldo]

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If the SPL had any sense they should surely try and back date it tae get them out the league before they cause more problems further down the line when they go pop.

J WTF...this is the SPL your talking about and what you've just posted related to common sense.

Common sense and SPL your havin a laugh

[Aldo]

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​The best outcome for me, as a Hibee, is tae see them completely wiped out

This. No more no less just the total and utter destruction of that mob. Wiped from the face of this earth. ENDOF

[Saorsa]

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J WTF...this is the SPL your talking about and what you've just posted related to common sense.

Common sense and SPL your havin a laugh

That's why the was there.

[Aldo]

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That's why the was there.

I know matey. :-o