Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[Thecat23]

Just had a look on the Goodwillie thread, here is a quote from Russian Hats "Maybe we could be back in? Surely we can offer more percentage of wages than united? (Even though we are struggling financially)".

This is delusion at the highest! Unreal that they got in this mess paying huge wages, huge cuts having to happen yet this clown thinks they can still offer bigger wages!!

[Jack Hackett]

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As Teal'c would have said, while raising an eyebrow..."Indeed"


Off to the beach. Have a great day all

[Col2]

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Just had a look on the Goodwillie thread, here is a quote from Russian Hats "Maybe we could be back in? Surely we can offer more percentage of wages than united? (Even though we are struggling financially)".

This is delusion at the highest! Unreal that they got in this mess paying huge wages, huge cuts having to happen yet this clown thinks they can still offer bigger wages!!

Thy just don't get it.

[Caversham Green]

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This appears to be a ray of hope for all well run clubs.

My understanding, if I am reading CG, CWG and PTS correctly, is that a CVA is a non starter as all assets are secured to UKIO and would have to realise north of £15m before any non secured crditors (HMRC, UBIG and the pie shop) got a penny? Is this correct?

Under that scenario there would appear to be little point entering discussions with anyone other than UKIO.

A CVA could work by HoMFC keeping to the terms of the loan agreement with Ukio. UBIG could in theory vote through a CVA if a purchaser came in with enough money to pay the administrator's fee plus a dividend to the unsecured creditors, they'd then emerge from administration still 'owning' Tynie but with that £15m debt still in place. I think the Ukio administration is likely to take at least two years to complete so there's no need to realise the debt early, and even if that wasn't the case the Ukio administrator could sell on the debt at a discount - HoMFC would still owe the full £15m though.

That £15m is a huge problem for them. For as long as they stay out of administration they have very little hope of cutting a deal with Ukio's administrator - after all, they're holding themselves out to be capable of settling their debts as they fall due, so why would the administrator take any less than the full amount. If they do go into administration the debt either remains intact, new buyers have to buy Tynie in a separate (and unsympathetic) negotiation or they lose the place. And the debt has to be repaid in full in a little over two years. The 'share' issue was impressive in raising over a million, how are they going to raise fifteen times that by December 2015?

[Sanger]

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A CVA could work by HoMFC keeping to the terms of the loan agreement with Ukio. UBIG could in theory vote through a CVA if a purchaser came in with enough money to pay the administrator's fee plus a dividend to the unsecured creditors, they'd then emerge from administration still 'owning' Tynie but with that £15m debt still in place. I think the Ukio administration is likely to take at least two years to complete so there's no need to realise the debt early, and even if that wasn't the case the Ukio administrator could sell on the debt at a discount - HoMFC would still owe the full £15m though.

That £15m is a huge problem for them. For as long as they stay out of administration they have very little hope of cutting a deal with Ukio's administrator - after all, they're holding themselves out to be capable of settling their debts as they fall due, so why would the administrator take any less than the full amount. If they do go into administration the debt either remains intact, new buyers have to buy Tynie in a separate (and unsympathetic) negotiation or they lose the place. And the debt has to be repaid in full in a little over two years. The 'share' issue was impressive in raising over a million, how are they going to raise fifteen times that by December 2015?

The debt to Ukio Bankas is much larger than the £15m direct loan if you take into account the indirect lending via UBIG. I shown previously on this thread it is at least £68.7m which a large proportion of what the Lithuanian state had to pump into UKio Bankas to make the depositors whole. That is why the Ukio Bankas held the stadium and 79% of HMFC shares as security. I doubt if The administrator would away with merely a discount on the £15m loan which would at best represent a discount of the sale value of Tynie. A very unattractive deal as you know HMFC will never pay you back and you can only realise your investment by making a very unpopular sale. Think the more likely outcome is once Ukio Bankas bankruptcy appeal falls and UBIG officially declared bankrupt the administrators see if there are any real bids out there that are close to the value of Tynie plus money for the club say £2m. If not then sell the ground and club separately. HMFC end up liquidated as they can't but HMFC and we end up with a new HMFC playing somewhere else and applying for league 3.

[ScottB]

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As Teal'c would have said, while raising an eyebrow..."Indeed"


Off to the beach. Have a great day all

Never thought I'd see a Stargate reference here. Bravo

[The Green Goblin]

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As Teal'c would have said, while raising an eyebrow..."Indeed"


Off to the beach. Have a great day all

Maybe that explains where Vlad has gone. That ominous rumbling sound which we all thought was Nade's tummy at lunchtime or the sound of Tynie threatening to collapse was in fact the undersoil stargate the mad one built with all that money to escape when this day finally arrived...

[Kaiser1962]

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The debt to Ukio Bankas is much larger than the £15m direct loan if you take into account the indirect lending via UBIG. I shown previously on this thread it is at least £68.7m which a large proportion of what the Lithuanian state had to pump into UKio Bankas to make the depositors whole. That is why the Ukio Bankas held the stadium and 79% of HMFC shares as security. I doubt if The administrator would away with merely a discount on the £15m loan which would at best represent a discount of the sale value of Tynie. A very unattractive deal as you know HMFC will never pay you back and you can only realise your investment by making a very unpopular sale. Think the more likely outcome is once Ukio Bankas bankruptcy appeal falls and UBIG officially declared bankrupt the administrators see if there are any real bids out there that are close to the value of Tynie plus money for the club say £2m. If not then sell the ground and club separately. HMFC end up liquidated as they can't but HMFC and we end up with a new HMFC playing somewhere else and applying for league 3.

I am sure I read that only 29% of Hearts shares are security although the stadium and all the assets are secured to UKIO.

While Hearts have probably cost UKIO in the region of £70m the money was not loaned directly to Hearts, but came through UBIG, so its unlikely they can legally pursue Hearts for this, even if they wanted to.

[Jim44]

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Maybe that explains where Vlad has gone. That ominous rumbling sound which we all thought was Nade's tummy at lunchtime or the sound of Tynie threatening to collapse was in fact the undersoil stargate the mad one built with all that money to escape when this day finally arrived...

Whenever I think of Vlad's disappearance, I can't help comparing it with the final scene in The Silence of The Lambs with Hannibal Lecter casually strolling down the street in Havana or wherever it was.

[CallumLaidlaw]

AllisBarry is now saying Hearts are guaranteed £100k compo for Novikovas. Why is this?

[The Green Goblin]

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AllisBarry is now saying Hearts are guaranteed £100k compo for Novikovas. Why is this?

Because allisbarry

Only positive news about Hearts allowed. Drop in the ocean and all that etc. Still, it will also give the lemmings an extra straw to clutch at as they tumble over the cliff...

[clerriehibs]

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AllisBarry is now saying Hearts are guaranteed £100k compo for Novikovas. Why is this?

Because he's a wuckfit?

[Part/Time Supporter]

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AllisBarry is now saying Hearts are guaranteed £100k compo for Novikovas. Why is this?

Barry says they offered Novikovas a contract on same (or better?) terms before he left. He's under 23 so they would be due training compensation at a tribunal if and when he signs somewhere else. Presumably the £100K figure is the amount intimated to Barry that they would accept.

[Gmack7]

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AllisBarry is now saying Hearts are guaranteed £100k compo for Novikovas. Why is this?

did they offer him a new contract?if not they are getting HE HAW

[CyberSauzee]

Can I say I have just spent an enjoyable 45 mins or so catching up on this thread with a hair o' the dug in a boozer in North London. The barman thought I was losing it when I started laughing at the JKB Meltdown tweets.

If I can paraphrase a FTB: Never have so few given so much pleasure to so many.

[Gus Fring]

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did they offer him a new contract?if not they are getting HE HAW

Yes apparently they offered him the same terms but he wanted to go. The Yams on Sickback, the EEN article and Twitter are now tuggin themselves into a frenzy that this pays the Tax bill. Which of course, it doesn't for a number of reasons.

1) The fee only applies if he signs for someone outside Scotland

2) He would need to sign for someone before Tuesday

3) The money is incredibly unlikely to be processed that quickly even if he signed for another team right now.

4) I wouldn't be surprised if there was no Tax bill, or it was deliberately witheld to drum up season ticket sales.

[greenginger]

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Yes apparently they offered him the same terms but he wanted to go. The Yams on Sickback, the EEN article and Twitter are now tuggin themselves into a frenzy that this pays the Tax bill. Which of course, it doesn't for a number of reasons.

1) The fee only applies if he signs for someone outside Scotland

2) He would need to sign for someone before Tuesday

3) The money is incredibly unlikely to be processed that quickly even if he signed for another team right now.

4) I wouldn't be surprised if there was no Tax bill, or it was deliberately witheld to drum up season ticket sales.

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/2...241384_3195624

No mention of any offer to the player here.

More desperate wishing.

[Off the bar]

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Yes apparently they offered him the same terms but he wanted to go. The Yams on Sickback, the EEN article and Twitter are now tuggin themselves into a frenzy that this pays the Tax bill. Which of course, it doesn't for a number of reasons.

1) The fee only applies if he signs for someone outside Scotland

2) He would need to sign for someone before Tuesday

3) The money is incredibly unlikely to be processed that quickly even if he signed for another team right now.

4) I wouldn't be surprised if there was no Tax bill, or it was deliberately witheld to drum up season ticket sales.

5) does'nt the compensation have to be agreed between the 2 clubs or by an independant arbitrator. no guarentees it would come out at 100k.

yet more pull a number out the air yamanomics

[Jack Hackett]

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http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/2...241384_3195624

No mention of any offer to the player here.

More desperate wishing.

1-5
1902
#allisbarry

[Part/Time Supporter]

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5) does'nt the compensation have to be agreed between the 2 clubs or by an independant arbitrator. no guarentees it would come out at 100k.

yet more pull a number out the air yamanomics

Oldco Huns (eventually) paid £150K for Sone Aluko to Aberdeen in a similar situation. But that example shows that the move can drag out because there will be a fee to pay and the interested club(s) may not be willing (or able) to pay it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...y-McCoist.html

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Yes apparently they offered him the same terms but he wanted to go. The Yams on Sickback, the EEN article and Twitter are now tuggin themselves into a frenzy that this pays the Tax bill. Which of course, it doesn't for a number of reasons.

1) The fee only applies if he signs for someone outside Scotland

2) He would need to sign for someone before Tuesday

3) The money is incredibly unlikely to be processed that quickly even if he signed for another team right now.

4) I wouldn't be surprised if there was no Tax bill, or it was deliberately witheld to drum up season ticket sales.

The first point is wrong, as per above.

We'll find out on Monday if the fourth point is correct. I think that would be a step too far, even for them.

[truehibernian]

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Oldco Huns (eventually) paid £150K for Sone Aluko to Aberdeen in a similar situation. But that example shows that the move can drag out because there will be a fee to pay and the interested club(s) may not be willing (or able) to pay it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...y-McCoist.html



The first point is wrong, as per above.

We'll find out on Monday if the fourth point is correct. I think that would be a step too far, even for them.

Either that or you could ask a non Hearts minded journalist to ask Novikovas and his agent whether he had been offered a contract - personally I think he was released with no such offer on the table. More bluff from Hearts, spun by Beaker.

[Gus Fring]

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Either that or you could ask a non Hearts minded journalist to ask Novikovas and his agent whether he had been offered a contract - personally I think he was released with no such offer on the table. More bluff from Hearts, spun by Beaker.

[Onceinawhile]

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Yes apparently they offered him the same terms but he wanted to go. The Yams on Sickback, the EEN article and Twitter are now tuggin themselves into a frenzy that this pays the Tax bill. Which of course, it doesn't for a number of reasons.

1) The fee only applies if he signs for someone outside Scotland

2) He would need to sign for someone before Tuesday

3) The money is incredibly unlikely to be processed that quickly even if he signed for another team right now.

4) I wouldn't be surprised if there was no Tax bill, or it was deliberately witheld to drum up season ticket sales.

Fee only applies if he signs for someone in Scotland is it not? Hence the reason Taiwo cost us nothing.

[frazeHFC]

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Fee only applies if he signs for someone in Scotland is it not? Hence the reason Taiwo cost us nothing.

This report makes it seem like it's the opposite, although I had thought it was what you say.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...exit-1-2960216

[Saorsa]

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This report makes it seem like it's the opposite, although I had thought it was what you say.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...exit-1-2960216

That report is written by a complete tool though.

[robinp]

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That report is written by a complete tool though.

From Fifa transfer regs:

1. Training compensation is due when:
i. a player is registered for the first time as a professional; or
ii. a professional is transferred between clubs of two different associations (whether during or at the end of his contract) before the end of the season of his 23rd birthday.

and

3. If the former club does not offer the player a contract, no training compensation is payable unless the former club can justify that it is entitled
to such compensation. The former club must offer the player a contract in writing via registered post at least 60 days before the expiry of his current contract. Such an offer shall furthermore be at least of an equivalent value to the current contract. This provision is without prejudice to the right to training compensation of the player’s previous club(s).

[Part/Time Supporter]

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Fee only applies if he signs for someone in Scotland is it not? Hence the reason Taiwo cost us nothing.

No. Carlisle initially demanded money for him, but eventually gave in because Hibs would have been able to sign him for nothing in February 2013 (his 23rd birthday) anyway. The difference in the rule is international moves are free at 23, within the same country is 24. With respect to Taiwo, that gave Hibs an advantage over English teams because they could not have signed him for free for another year.

[Part/Time Supporter]

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From Fifa transfer regs:

1. Training compensation is due when:
i. a player is registered for the first time as a professional; or
ii. a professional is transferred between clubs of two different associations (whether during or at the end of his contract) before the end of the season of his 23rd birthday.

and

3. If the former club does not offer the player a contract, no training compensation is payable unless the former club can justify that it is entitled
to such compensation. The former club must offer the player a contract in writing via registered post at least 60 days before the expiry of his current contract. Such an offer shall furthermore be at least of an equivalent value to the current contract. This provision is without prejudice to the right to training compensation of the player’s previous club(s).

That makes BAnderson's story a bit odd. He was speculating in mid May that Hearts were deciding whether to offer Novikovas a contract to give them a right to compensation. Now he says that they offered him a contract before he left at the end of May.

http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-ev...-fee-1-2932474

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...exit-1-2960216

Either his first story was bollocks and they had already offered Novikovas a contract (in which case they would be entitled), or his second story is bollocks because they haven't offered him a contract more than 60 days before expiry.

[green glory]

Twitter convo I had earlier.


@The_FoH: Local print media, can you publish #FOH Open Q&A meeting details please? Thanks @BarryAnderson_8 @stuart_bathgate @StrachanColleen

@jj_bruce: @The_FoH @BarryAnderson_8 @stuart_bathgate @StrachanColleen When will the fans shares be registered with companies house? #scam

@The_FoH: @jj_bruce @BarryAnderson_8 @stuart_bathgate @StrachanColleen It's due to happen on 5th January at 2 mins past 7 in the evening 5/1 19:02

@jj_bruce: @The_FoH @BarryAnderson_8 @stuart_bathgate @StrachanColleen Great banter, but they should have been registered within a month of the issue!

@stuart_bathgate: @jj_bruce Latest from club is that certificates will be posted out "soon". They may need a little encouragement to hurry up a bit.

@jj_bruce: @The_FoH @BarryAnderson_8 @stuart_bathgate @StrachanColleen It's too late, they haven't been registered at Companies House. 30 day deadline

They're beyond help.

[greenginger]

http://www1.skysports.com/football/n...-at-Tynecastle



Sky Sports reported no new deal for Novikovas.