Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[Dashing Bob S]

Astonishing to conceive of a club being in such a financial mess that the SPL/SFA are even contemplating the need to take action.

[CropleyWasGod]

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The people who know about these things have pointed out that knowingly trading while insolvent is an offence. Is there a point when somebody decides that this is happening? If so, who would the 'somebody' be, and what would be the catalyst for this, and the process?

It's normally the administrator or liquidator who starts that process.

It can be difficult to establish exactly when a company becomes insolvent, and can sometimes only be judged in hindsight. Hence why someone with a fresh eye is often best placed to make the call.

[greenginger]

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I see his stroke has now turned into a heart attack, I think Vlad's pulled another stroke was lost in translation!

We might have seen the last ever Heart attack !

[Part/Time Supporter]

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Wouldn't work with VAT either. It's payable by the 7th these days.

My theory is that it was "something" that was due by the 1st of the month. The 1st was Saturday, hence the first business day was Monday.

Other than that, I am scoobied.

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsP...ument#P62_4516

As a business with turnover >£2.3M, Hearts will be paying VAT under payments on account.

The due dates for payments on account are the last working day of the second and third months of every VAT quarterly period, regardless of your period end dates - we will send you a payment schedule listing all your payment dates. If you are in POA, and submit quarterly returns, you will not get the seven extra days to pay and submit your VAT return, as described on the How to Pay VAT page on our website.

My understanding from that is that their VAT payment will be due by each month end (31 May in this case). HMRC give businesses who are not in the POA scheme seven days grace to pay VAT* - they seem to have given Hearts that advantage in this case as well. I suspect Hearts will have phoned up HMRC last Friday (31st) to tell them they wouldn't get the money (hence the "we are in dialogue with HMRC" spin yesterday) and HMRC have told them "okay, but if we don't get the money next week we will take court action" (ie if they don't pay before the weekend HMRC will file papers on Monday).

*This is a legacy of shifting from submitting VAT returns on paper and paying by cheque to submitting returns online and paying electronically.

[s.a.m]

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It's normally the administrator or liquidator who starts that process.

It can be difficult to establish exactly when a company becomes insolvent, and can sometimes only be judged in hindsight. Hence why someone with a fresh eye is often best placed to make the call.

Thanks.

[21.05.2016]

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Hilarious, they can't seem to get their heads around the fact that the 5-1 game is directly related to this mess their in.

Oh god are they STILL hiding behind 5-1. When are those morons going to wake up and smell the coffee and realise their club is up **** creek and to have 5-1 they had to cripple themselves. Let them sing 5-1 all they like, it can't save them now.

[scott7_0(Prague)]

Thought it was time to introduce #allisbarry

allisbarry.JPG

[Hibbyradge]

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Thought it was time to introduce #allisbarry

allisbarry.JPG

Oh, you kickbacker, you...

[scott7_0(Prague)]

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Oh, you kickbacker, you...

Lurker i prefer to be called. Kickbacker is just pure dirty.

[Ozyhibby]

With Vlad on the run there is no way they will sort out the Ukio or Ubig admin quickly. When Hearts go under it could be years before a new club could be set up, if at all. This won't be like Sevco at all.

[Saorsa]

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Astonishing to conceive of a club being in such a financial mess that the SPL/SFA are even contemplating the need to take action.

Come on now Bob, inaction is exactly what I would expect for these incompetents.

[CropleyWasGod]

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http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsP...ument#P62_4516

As a business with turnover >£2.3M, Hearts will be paying VAT under payments on account.



My understanding from that is that their VAT payment will be due by each month end (31 May in this case). HMRC give businesses who are not in the POA scheme seven days grace to pay VAT* - they seem to have given Hearts that advantage in this case as well. I suspect Hearts will have phoned up HMRC last Friday (31st) to tell them they wouldn't get the money (hence the "we are in dialogue with HMRC" spin yesterday) and HMRC have told them "okay, but if we don't get the money next week we will take court action" (ie if they don't pay before the weekend HMRC will file papers on Monday).

*This is a legacy of shifting from submitting VAT returns on paper and paying by cheque to submitting returns online and paying electronically.

Yeah, my reply was a bit sloppy. In effect, everyone gets that extra 7 days before any action is taken.

Rips my knitting, that change, by the way. I much prefer the "end of the month" system.

[Gus Fring]

My source tells me the SPL is indeed keeping an eye on this situation closely. As with the points deduction though they can't act until the SPL rules have been broken beyond doubt, which hasn't happened yet unfortunately. Any punishment the SPL dish out under the current circumstances would be turned over almost immediately in court.

[Saorsa]

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My source tells me the SPL is indeed keeping an eye on this situation closely. As with the points deduction though they can't act until the SPL rules have been broken beyond doubt, which hasn't happened yet unfortunately. Any punishment the SPL dish out under the current circumstances would be turned over almost immediately in court.

Is this latest tax default not a breach of their rules? I thought P.A.Y.E and VAT had tae be paid on time

[Part/Time Supporter]

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My source tells me the SPL is indeed keeping an eye on this situation closely. As with the points deduction though they can't act until the SPL rules have been broken beyond doubt, which hasn't happened yet unfortunately. Any punishment the SPL dish out under the current circumstances would be turned over almost immediately in court.

Again, I suspect this is because the late payment is for VAT (which is not covered by SPL rules), rather than PAYE (which is).

[CropleyWasGod]

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Is this latest tax default not a breach of their rules? I thought P.A.Y.E and VAT had tae be paid on time

Not sure that VAT is included.

Someone tell me I'm wrong

[hibs0666]

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My source tells me the SPL is indeed keeping an eye on this situation closely. As with the points deduction though they can't act until the SPL rules have been broken beyond doubt, which hasn't happened yet unfortunately. Any punishment the SPL dish out under the current circumstances would be turned over almost immediately in court.

I think that SPL clubs now have to report tax breaches within 3 days, and that period is now up. The yaks can hardly not report it, as it's already in the public domain. If it all works to plan there will be a transfer embargo within a few days.

[Saorsa]

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Again, I suspect this is because the late payment is for VAT (which is not covered by SPL rules), rather than PAYE (which is).

answers my question if it is


There must be something they can nail them for

[Beefster]

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Again, I suspect this is because the late payment is for VAT (which is not covered by SPL rules), rather than PAYE (which is).

Which sums up the SPL in a sentence. A club gets in **** for not paying their PAYE so the SPL introduces rules to ensure clubs pay their PAYE rather than rules to ensure that they pay all their tax.

[Geo_1875]

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My source tells me the SPL is indeed keeping an eye on this situation closely. As with the points deduction though they can't act until the SPL rules have been broken beyond doubt, which hasn't happened yet unfortunately. Any punishment the SPL dish out under the current circumstances would be turned over almost immediately in court.

It's ridiculous that they can be allowed to stumble along from crisis to crisis, bringing disrepute on the SPL and in danger of putting next season into chaos. We can only hope that they will be hit with every sanction available to the authorities (both sporting and legal) when the **** hits the fan. I think the SPL will think that they must be seen to be doing every thing above board but when it throws the plans of the other clubs into disarray it does nobody any favours. Surely they must be able to ask hertz to put a viable plan in front of them or tell them to get tae ****.

[Steve-O]

My personal message to Hearts FC

[CropleyWasGod]

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Which sums up the SPL in a sentence. A club gets in **** for not paying their PAYE so the SPL introduces rules to ensure clubs pay their PAYE rather than rules to ensure that they pay all their tax.

To be fair, that sums up any legal system.

Rules are put in place. People find ways to circumvent them. So more rules are added. People find ways etc etc... and so it goes on.

[the_ginger_hibee]

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Poor old Vlad.

http://www.lithuaniatribune.com/4016...ced-201340166/

It is said that the controversial banker is being protected in Moscow by the people of Ramzan Kadyrov – the president of the Republic of Chechnya. The bodyguard group is said to belong to another contentious businessman of Chechen origin, Ruslan Baisarov, who used to have a certain tie with Lithuania in the past, as he was married (now divorced) to the singer Kristina Orbakaitė

So.....as Hearts are Vlad's only real income, and ST money is Hearts only real income, one could factually say the Hearts fans are directly funding the protection of an international criminal suspected of large financial frauds throughout Europe?

[HFC 0-7]

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To be fair, that sums up any legal system.

Rules are put in place. People find ways to circumvent them. So more rules are added. People find ways etc etc... and so it goes on.

How about a rule that states any club failing to pay bills, debts or obligations are subject to points deductions and signing embaro?

we will be here for years making up rules, if we limit it to each type of bill and obligation!

[Off the bar]

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So.....as Hearts are Vlad's only real income, and ST money is Hearts only real income, one could factually say the Hearts fans are directly funding the protection of an international criminal suspected of large financial frauds throughout Europe?

nice

[Hermit Crab]

Where is it publicised that Wilson transfer is getting investigated?

[Kato]

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With Vlad on the run there is no way they will sort out the Ukio or Ubig admin quickly. When Hearts go under it could be years before a new club could be set up, if at all. This won't be like Sevco at all.

If we could get Tom Baker or some lovey type to intone that in a serious/portentious "they're doomed" voice its something I'd find "pleasing".

[Gus Fring]

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I think that SPL clubs now have to report tax breaches within 3 days, and that period is now up. The yaks can hardly not report it, as it's already in the public domain. If it all works to plan there will be a transfer embargo within a few days.

I'll try and find out if this has been done, I see no reason that it wouldn't have been.

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It's ridiculous that they can be allowed to stumble along from crisis to crisis, bringing disrepute on the SPL and in danger of putting next season into chaos. We can only hope that they will be hit with every sanction available to the authorities (both sporting and legal) when the **** hits the fan. I think the SPL will think that they must be seen to be doing every thing above board but when it throws the plans of the other clubs into disarray it does nobody any favours. Surely they must be able to ask hertz to put a viable plan in front of them or tell them to get tae ****.

Sadly that's the way the world works, it isn't always possible to prevent 1 party causing problems for other parties so you have to wait until they break the rules. The SPL has a tough job of trying to keep the teams from taking the mick whilst also allowing them the breathing space to try and survive. The SPL will never rule the league with an iron fist and anyone expecting them to do so will be disappointed.

[Part/Time Supporter]

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Which sums up the SPL in a sentence. A club gets in **** for not paying their PAYE so the SPL introduces rules to ensure clubs pay their PAYE rather than rules to ensure that they pay all their tax.

1. I think it's fair to assume that if a club is not paying VAT they will also be struggling to pay PAYE

2. The rules relate to non-payment of players. PAYE relates to this as it is withheld from gross wages to cover the players' tax liabilities. VAT doesn't relate to non-payment of players.

In respect to Danny Wilson, I suspect that if Hearts submit the registration documents, the authorities will tell them to hold the bus until they can prove that they can pay the next month's wages and PAYE.

[Off the bar]

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Where is it publicised that Wilson transfer is getting investigated?

daily ******, link further back on this thread