Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[LeighLoyal]

Complete non story the insolvency. The current Sevco shenanigans with Sfa are more pertinent, waiting until they investigate themselves no less, and them being allowed sign players is a joke now we know a Sevco season book holder was on on the tribunal, just makes Mcoist demand to know the names even more shameless.

[HibeeMG]

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So it's been confirmed that an administrator has been appointed yet there isn't enough evidence to declare an insolvency event?

#alliscorrupt, never mind bloody complex...

It's Ukio Bankas that have had an administrator appointed.

[CropleyWasGod]

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So it's been confirmed that an administrator has been appointed yet there isn't enough evidence to declare an insolvency event?

#alliscorrupt, never mind bloody complex...

UBIG haven't had an administrator appointed. The reference in there is to UKIO.

[Part/Time Supporter]

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So it's been confirmed that an administrator has been appointed yet there isn't enough evidence to declare an insolvency event?

#alliscorrupt, never mind bloody complex...

It hasn't been confirmed at all. The article mixes up the UBIG and Ukio situations.

Ukio Banko Investicine Grupe, or UBIG, the Lithuanian investment company that controls Scottish soccer club Heart of Midlothian, is bankrupt, Lithuania's Department of Enterprise Bankruptcy Management was quoted by Bloomberg on Monday, cites LETA. The department, part of the Economy Ministry, said that Kaunas-based UBIG, at its own request, had been placed on a list of companies unable or unwilling to meet their obligations.

That's the same as what we knew already from last Thursday.

UBIG is a sister company of Ukio Bankas AB, a lender that Lithuania’s central bank closed in February for risky lending to related parties. UBIG owns 79% of Edinburgh-based Hearts as well as sport, aluminum and real-estate projects in several countries. As reported, Kaunas County Court after considering the applicant's Lithuanian bank statement in early May opened bankruptcy proceedings against bank Ukio Bankas. Following the ruling of the court, company Valnetas was appointed as bankruptcy administrator. As to the background, on February 12, 2013, the Bank of Lithuania restricted activities of Ukio Bankas, with the purpose of protecting public, depositors and other clients' interests. Temporal administrator was appointed. Once the bank was announced insolvent it was decided for the first time to resolve such issue of a bank by transferring a part of assets and liabilities to another bank.

Again, the same as what we already knew. Ukio has had an administrator appointed by the court. It has also gone into a liquidation process which is presently pending appeal.

[Onion]

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Assuming they get that far, there will be play off places come 2014/2015 so Rankers winning that league might not end their promotion hopes. But this is all hypothetical, and under the assumption they survive the next few months.

You can see NewHuns and WeeHuns have a Div 1 lovin as they plan and scheme their way back to the SPL. Horrible bunch.

[Hibrandenburg]

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Tell us what they had with their cuppas.

Yammy Dodgers

[Waxy]

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Don't follow that logic. IMHO the -15 will just make them more determined than ever and I think they could easily make that up against the weaker teams. Hearts have a great record when up against it.

But not with a bunch of spotty teenagers.

[Sanger]

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So it's been confirmed that an administrator has been appointed yet there isn't enough evidence to declare an insolvency event?

#alliscorrupt, never mind bloody complex...

The article us a word for word reprint of the Bllomberg article from last Thursday and even quotes Bloomberg as the source of government department's quote. I was in contact with the Bloomberg journalist who wrote Thursday's article and all the articles since Ukio Bankas when into administration in February and he says he believes a court will have to officially declare UBIG insolvent but Thursday's declaration by UBIG was the start of the insolvency process. Once that court decision is given the SPL will have to revisit today's decision. The Bloomberg reporter is finding out the date of the court hearing.

[clerriehibs]

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But not with a bunch of spotty teenagers.

No ... but they might come up with a significant number of completely above board loanee arrangements.

[blackpoolhibs]

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The article us a word for word reprint of the Bllomberg article from last Thursday and even quotes Bloomberg as the source of government department's quote. I was in contact with the Bloomberg journalist who wrote Thursday's article and all the articles since Ukio Bankas when into administration in February and he says he believes a court will have to officially declare UBIG insolvent but Thursday's declaration by UBIG was the start of the insolvency process. Once that court decision is given the SPL will have to revisit today's decision. The Bloomberg reporter is finding out the date of the court hearing.

Is it just a case of the insolvency being ratified by the Lithuanian courts, or can it be denied for any reason?

And if this is ratified by the courts, what kind of time scale are we looking at for this to be confirmed?

[Phil D. Rolls]

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I think the title of the St.Mirren article is a tad deceiving.

My take on the article:

The SPL is better with strong clubs in it - which is true.

He wasn't there this morning so doesn't know what's went on/what the situation is.

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I don't think so. The court will probably date their decision on the day they make it and the fact that the SPL have actually given a decision rather than deferring it suggests it's not reversible.

I haven't actually read the SPL statement yet, but I feel if they had doubts they would have adjourned rather than judged.

Said it was on the evidence available, suggests it is not exhaustive.

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They are not out of the woods yet , it's only a matter of time until the plug is pulled. Changed days from a year ago when they were all cheering their cheating cup win to this year when they cheated relegation by a baw hair !.

[Waxy]

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No ... but they might come up with a significant number of completely above board loanee arrangements.

But they will have a transfer embargo on them.

[macca70]

No Insolvency Event?

Am I not correct in saying that UBIG themselves have declared themselves insolvent? How's that no an 'Insolvency Event'?

Baffling.

[Sanger]

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Is it just a case of the insolvency being ratified by the Lithuanian courts, or can it be denied for any reason?

And if this is ratified by the courts, what kind of time scale are we looking at for this to be confirmed?

I would imagine there would have to be some due diligence carried by the court as UBIG are Ukio Bankas major bad debtor. In trying to recover as many of the assets of UBIG as possible the court and administrator must ensure UBIG are not hiding any assets. Might take a few weeks to come to court to ensure Ukio Bankas's administrator will find sufficient time to ensue UBIG not hiding assets away. This could mean the court decision comes only weeks before the start of next season. So looks like being another last minute mess!

[Keith_M]

Take from this what you will:



SPL chairman Ralph Topping said: "We acted on the information that was available to us.

"That's not to say that other information will not come forward in the next few days or weeks ahead but we can only deal with what we have got at the moment and on that basis there is no insolvency event under our rules.

"We will need to see what develops on this situation, if indeed anything develops.

"You can appreciate the issues that are involved. We are dealing with Lithuania, we are dealing with Lithuanian law, we are dealing with interpretation of what's happened over there, and looking at it from the perspective of our rules.

"It's good news at the moment. With everything in Scottish football, there is temporary respite."




Source

[Saorsa]

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Take from this what you will:



SPL chairman Ralph Topping said: "We acted on the information that was available to us.

"That's not to say that other information will not come forward in the next few days or weeks ahead but we can only deal with what we have got at the moment and on that basis there is no insolvency event under our rules.

"We will need to see what develops on this situation, if indeed anything develops.

"You can appreciate the issues that are involved. We are dealing with Lithuania, we are dealing with Lithuanian law, we are dealing with interpretation of what's happened over there, and looking at it from the perspective of our rules.

"It's good news at the moment. With everything in Scottish football, there is temporary respite."




Source

That's a matter of opinion

[blackpoolhibs]

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I would imagine there would have to be some due diligence carried by the court as UBIG are Ukio Bankas major bad debtor. In trying to recover as many of the assets of UBIG as possible the court and administrator must ensure UBIG are not hiding any assets. Might take a few weeks to come to court to ensure Ukio Bankas's administrator will find sufficient time to ensue UBIG not hiding assets away. This could mean the court decision comes only weeks before the start of next season. So looks like being another last minute mess!

[blackpoolhibs]

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Take from this what you will:



SPL chairman Ralph Topping said: "We acted on the information that was available to us.

"That's not to say that other information will not come forward in the next few days or weeks ahead but we can only deal with what we have got at the moment and on that basis there is no insolvency event under our rules.

"We will need to see what develops on this situation, if indeed anything develops.

"You can appreciate the issues that are involved. We are dealing with Lithuania, we are dealing with Lithuanian law, we are dealing with interpretation of what's happened over there, and looking at it from the perspective of our rules.

"It's good news at the moment. With everything in Scottish football, there is temporary respite."




Source

Topping was asked if they had made any enquires in Lithuania about this, he said its not up to them to do make those kind of enquiries, well who is it up to?

[Mikey]

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The article us a word for word reprint of the Bllomberg article from last Thursday and even quotes Bloomberg as the source of government department's quote. I was in contact with the Bloomberg journalist who wrote Thursday's article and all the articles since Ukio Bankas when into administration in February and he says he believes a court will have to officially declare UBIG insolvent but Thursday's declaration by UBIG was the start of the insolvency process. Once that court decision is given the SPL will have to revisit today's decision. The Bloomberg reporter is finding out the date of the court hearing.

[Gus Fring]

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Topping was asked if they had made any enquires in Lithuania about this, he said its not up to them to do make those kind of enquiries, well who is it up to?

He was asked if they had spoken to UBIG, his response was that it's not appropriate for them to be chasing organisations. Which is fair enough IMO.

[EuanH78]

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So it's been confirmed that an administrator has been appointed yet there isn't enough evidence to declare an insolvency event?

#alliscorrupt, never mind bloody complex...

That just said there is an administrator appointed to Ukio Bankas not to Ubig (yet)

[blackpoolhibs]

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He was asked if they had spoken to UBIG, his response was that it's not appropriate for them to be chasing organisations. Which is fair enough IMO.

Really, i'd have thought speaking to UBIG would be the first thing they should have done. They would then have found out it was not the janitor who was asking for insolvency.

[Caversham Green]

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Here is the extract that I am alluding to.
Currently available being the thing that catches the eye.


"The board are not satisfied, on the basis of information currently available to it, that an insolvency event (as defined by SPL rules) occurred in respect of UBIG during season 2012-2013."

I think if they had followed that up with a comment to the effect that they would defer judgement until such time as they were satified one way or the other, then there would have been a case for believing they might backtrack but from what I can gather from their statements, and particularly from Ralph Topping's interview, the decision has been made. To backtrack now would give the yams good reason to get even more self-righteous than they are normally.

It's worth noting though, that before Thursday this thread highlighed a multitude of problems besetting HoMFC. Today's events have not lessened those problems one iota and they are still in a worse position than they were before UBIG formed an intention to cease trading. As MyJo points out when (not if) their insolvency is ratified (to the satisfaction of the board's interpretation of the rules) HoMFC will suffer a points deduction to start next season with - if they are still around by that time.

[Kato]

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Don't follow that logic. IMHO the -15 will just make them more determined than ever and I think they could easily make that up against the weaker teams. Hearts have a great record when up against it.

Do they? What have they been up against and how is their record against it.

They do have a great record when they've been financially doped.

[Gus Fring]

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Really, i'd have thought speaking to UBIG would be the first thing they should have done. They would then have found out it was not the janitor who was asking for insolvency.

I don't imagine UBIG are going to give any information out over the phone anyway, the SPL is probably just another company who'll be phoning them wondering WTF is happening as far as they're concerned. Even if UBIG had said "Yes my scottish friend, we don't have 2 pennies to rub together, we are more goosed than a goose with a goose stuck up its bum" it still wouldn't have changed todays result.

Just now, UBIG saying they are insolvent holds just as much water as Hearts saying they are self sufficient, it's not "official".

Best explanation I've heard today is it's like a marriage. No matter how much 2 people live together, share bills, have kids and call each other husband and wife, it doesn't mean diddly without the piece of paper that says your married. Thursday for UBIG was the equivelant of a proposal, it's the right thing to do but the actual act hasn't been achieved yet.

[#FromTheCapital]

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It's worth noting though, that before Thursday this thread highlighed a multitude of problems besetting HoMFC. Today's events have not lessened those problems one iota and they are still in a worse position than they were before UBIG formed an intention to cease trading. As MyJo points out when (not if) their insolvency is ratified (to the satisfaction of the board's interpretation of the rules) HoMFC will suffer a points deduction to start next season with - if they are still around by that time.

This.

Some of the drama queens on here need to realise that the whole relegation thing would of only been an added bonus had it happened. Just because they got off with that doesn't mean they are safe. Far from it, they are still very much screwed.
Likewise I cringe for the hearts fans who are trying to celebrate this decision and wind us up about it. They are only setting themselves up for a massive fall when the main event begins.

[Spike Mandela]

Ha ha how utterly predictable the SPL board take up their default position of holding a meeting then doing NOTHING.

This bunch of incompetents are only concerned with self interest and self preservation. They are an authority with no authority.

In most cases where a judgement is required there are two sides debating. Those for sanction and those against. in this case the SPL board do not want to be punishing a member club and Hearts are obviously trying to weasel out of any punishment. Today's farce was merely a combined exercise in finding loopholes around the SPLs own rules. A sanction was NEVER going to be applied and NEVER will be by this bunch of avoiders.

Listening to Ralph Topping discussing their lack of info was like listening to Bandersons #allverycomplex bull****.

A 500 page thread, it will be 500 million pages before the SPL do anything that looks like they are in charge of this joke league.

It will be outside agenies that decide Hearts fate but the SPL will ensure they have the softest landing possible.

[Gus Fring]

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Ha ha how utterly predictable the SPL board take up their default position of holding a meeting then doing NOTHING.

...

If the SPL had applied the points deduction today, Hearts would have had it overturned incredibly easily in court which would have done nothing for the SPL's reputation and would have gave Dundee the runaround. As inevitable as UBIG's insolvency might seem, the SPL can't do anything until the rule has actually been broken and at this time, going by the letter of the law, it has not. The SPL have however said they will revisit it if needs be.

[clerriehibs]

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He was asked if they had spoken to UBIG, his response was that it's not appropriate for them to be chasing organisations. Which is fair enough IMO.

That almost suggests that they'd only review what anyone brought to the table, as they're above doing any investigating themselves ... and I'd imagine the only people bringing anything to the table would be the yams' representatives, who would just be saying (adopt preston's high pitched nasal whine) "but heartz aren't insolvent, it's our parent company, and the parent company isnae even insolvent anyway, in fact, it's no' even really our parent company anyway, because we've been operating self-sustainingly ever since I can remember"

[Spike Mandela]

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If the SPL had applied the points deduction today, Hearts would have had it overturned incredibly easily in court which would have done nothing for the SPL's reputation and would have gave Dundee the runaround. As inevitable as UBIG's insolvency might seem, the SPL can't do anything until the rule has actually been broken and at this time, going by the letter of the law, it has not. The SPL have however said they will revisit it if needs be.

They will do NOTHING. They have not said they will revisit it. They have not deferred a decision until more info available.

The have made a decision that they will not make a decision.

They don't know what they are doing.