Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[matty_f]

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don't know what your laughing at. Barry has explained that "the club are determined not to be held to ransom by players and agents for money they cant afford". there, that's that then. both players will sign when the embargo is lifted, for a decent £500 or 600. a week wage, to be deposited regularly in their bank accounts. what more can they ask for?

There's no embargo at the moment as far as I know. Sure the sanctions were lifted.

[Gus Fring]

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There's no embargo at the moment as far as I know. Sure the sanctions were lifted.

I think it's still in place til the end of the season.

[millarco]

I wouldn't be all that surprised if Hearts were in for Goodwillie or Boyd. They've not made any serious attempts to control their expenditure since Romanov came in (and before), can't see them starting now. Sure they've made some improvements, but the 11/12 figures show that they were still paying far more than they could afford. Just look at Rangers, still overspending on wages despite everything that happened with them.

That's not to say they'll get them, especially as I'd still expect administration/liquidation before that and with it a signing ban extension (will be the least of their problems by then). The guys behind the scenes at Hearts have no control over their future.

[sambajustice]

Is Barry Anderson on crack???

[Mikey]

A huge dollop of reality from over the road..............

I'm new, probably not going to be listened to but I figured I'd try anyway. I know a couple of people who work at Tynecastle, one in the Ticket Office and one in the shop. The friend in the Ticket office tells me they haven't had a full wage since February. Could be a cock up could mean something.

I work in finance so I can try and shed some light on a few points other have raised.

If we are found to be delaying administration then we could potentially get in to trouble for trading whilst insolvent. It can be easy to delay this by simply not paying debts until the last possible minute (usually when the creditor threatens action).

The SPL (both the teams and the board) would take an interest because if Administration is a foregone conclusion then we are delaying it purely to lessen the sporting punishment.

I don't personally believe a buyout is close as there is too much uncertainty regarding the club for it to make business sense. We'd need people who did it out of the goodness of their hearts (excuse the pun)

As it stands, I don't believe we can be sold anyway as far as I am aware UBIG's assets are still frozen which would prevent a sale. this may have changed however as the media are not exactly on top of that stuff over here.

Hopefully we get answers at the AGM because right now the situation is as clear as mud. No wonder stories like this one crop up because it's so difficult to disprove them.

People keep saying we're paying the debt, which isn't accurate because as it stands we are only covering the interest on the debt. We need 100% clarification on what we owe, who we owe it to and when it's due.

My gut feeling from dealing with business situations like this before is we won't come out of this better off but admittedly the business being a football club does add an extra level of complexity.

[matty_f]

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A huge dollop of reality from over the road..............

#allverycomplex

[Hibercelona]

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Is Barry Anderson on crack???

No.

He is however "cracked".

They all are.

[Gus Fring]

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A huge dollop of reality from over the road..............

The rest of that thread sums them up, one of them has actually taken his head out the sand and now he's getting dogs abuse for it.

[KeithTheHibby]

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I wouldn't be all that surprised if Hearts were in for Goodwillie or Boyd. They've not made any serious attempts to control their expenditure since Romanov came in (and before), can't see them starting now. Sure they've made some improvements, but the 11/12 figures show that they were still paying far more than they could afford. Just look at Rangers, still overspending on wages despite everything that happened with them.

That's not to say they'll get them, especially as I'd still expect administration/liquidation before that and with it a signing ban extension (will be the least of their problems by then). The guys behind the scenes at Hearts have no control over their future.

Massive diffference between the huns and them. The Huns could be overspending as things stand but I would imagine they have a banking facility such as an overdraft to support this. The yams have hee haw so how could they continue to overspend? The story in the Sun is a load of pish and Anderson has picked it up to appease the puddle drinkers, nothing more.

[green glory]

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A huge dollop of reality from over the road..............

The guy is pretty much spot on with his facts. I've also heard from 2 seperate sources staff aren't being paid in full/on time.

I've got a Jambo mate who's fully accepted he'll be watching Newtongrange Star in future.

I think admin is now a cert, but in typical Hearts style by delaying it till the season's end they'll cheat right up to the vinegar strokes.

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

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I still dont get how they even have the cheek to go for more players esp as rumoured to be going for Kris boyd!

Wee fat Robbo said on the radio that they have a £2.8m wages buget for next season..... so it'll be ok.

[matty_f]

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Wee fat Robbo said on the radio that they have a £2.8m wages buget for next season..... so it'll be ok.

Has he seen how many staff they have?!

[Liberal Hibby]

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Wee fat Robbo said on the radio that they have a £2.8m wages buget for next season..... so it'll be ok.

That's less than a third of their 2011/12 budget - and around 40% less than ours. If they stay in the SPL they'll not be at the sharp end of the action that's for sure.

[green glory]

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That's less than a third of their 2011/12 budget - and around 40% less than ours. If they stay in the SPL they'll not be at the sharp end of the action that's for sure.

They'll be at the sharp end of an administrator's pointy stick.

(Do they have pointy sticks?)

[millarco]

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Massive diffference between the huns and them. The Huns could be overspending as things stand but I would imagine they have a banking facility such as an overdraft to support this. The yams have hee haw so how could they continue to overspend? The story in the Sun is a load of pish and Anderson has picked it up to appease the puddle drinkers, nothing more.

True. My guess is they'll keep doing what they've done over the last year or so and live hand to mouth. Plus I don't think Boyd is in a position to command much more than Kilmarnock will be paying him just now (won't be much) and Blackburn I'd imagine would cover most of Goodwillie's wage (assuming a year long loan).

I think both players would be realistic targets for a good number of SPL teams. Hearts won't be in a position to sign anyone, but wouldn't be surprised if they're looking at either anyway. I'm not saying Hearts can afford them, but I wouldn't put it past them to be trying to anyway.

[Denverhibby]

Hearts' bank appeal against bankruptcy set for end of May


By Brian McLauchlin & Jim Spence
BBC Scotland
The appeal against the bankruptcy order placed on Ukio Bankas , which is Hearts' main creditor, is expected to be heard in two weeks' time.
And the outcome could have serious implications for Hearts as they owe the stricken bank around £15m.
Hearts owe a further £10m to parent company UBIG, which was controlled by Tynecastle majority shareholder Vladimir Romanov.
UBIG's assets have since been frozen, with Romanov resigning from the board.
The Lithuanian parent company held around 79% of Hearts shares but BBC Scotland has learned that 29.9% have been pledged to the bank.
Quantum Holdings, a company based in Switzerland, holds another 15% stake in the club. Julija Goncaruk, the niece of Romanov, is the sole director of the company and is also on the Hearts board.
The balance of Hearts shares is made up by minority stakeholders.
Meanwhile, two rival clubs have written to the Scottish Premier League asking for clarity on the financial situation at Hearts.
And they have been told that there has been no breach of rule A6.12 which applies to any "group undertaking" of an owner and operator of a club suffering insolvency.
Ukio Bankas was placed in temporary administration earlier this year with liabilities close to £400m and all its branches have now closed.
On the appeal on behalf of the bank, Vilnius court official Elena Masnevaite said: "We are waiting on the papers arriving and the case should be heard in around two weeks."

[WindyMiller]

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Wee fat Robbo said on the radio that they have a £2.8m wages buget for next season..... so it'll be ok.

Their accounts state a playing/coaching staff of 107.
Therefore an average £500+ per week.

#allisbarry.

[Part/Time Supporter]

The BBC article about the appeal against Ukio's liquidation has been updated.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22514070

Appeal to be heard in two weeks' time - the delaying tactic appears to be working.

UBIG own 79% of Hearts, but of this 29.9% was pledged to Ukio as security. The significance of that number is that if Ukio bought 30% from UBIG, they would have to make an offer for the rest.

Two clubs have written to the Scottish Premier League asking for clarity on the financial situation at Hearts. They have been told that there has been no breach of rule A6.12 which applies to any "group undertaking" of an owner and operator of a club suffering insolvency.

[Peevemor]

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Their accounts state a playing/coaching staff of 107.
Therefore an average £500+ per week.

#allisbarry.

Before tax, NI, etc. are deducted.

[WindyMiller]

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Before tax, NI, etc. are deducted.

What are these things you speak of ?

[DaveF]

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The BBC article about the appeal against Ukio's liquidation has been updated.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22514070

Appeal to be heard in two weeks' time - the delaying tactic appears to be working.

UBIG own 79% of Hearts, but of this 29.9% was pledged to Ukio as security. The significance of that number is that if Ukio bought 30% from UBIG, they would have to make an offer for the rest.

Two clubs have written to the Scottish Premier League asking for clarity on the financial situation at Hearts. They have been told that there has been no breach of rule A6.12 which applies to any "group undertaking" of an owner and operator of a club suffering insolvency.

So its a piss take from Hearts then and the rest of the spl just have to suck it up?

[Peevemor]

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What are these things you speak of ?

Things that Hearts will have to pay bang on time from now on.

[Liberal Hibby]

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They'll be at the sharp end of an administrator's pointy stick.

(Do they have pointy sticks?)

Let's hope so...

[Sergio sledge]

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That's less than a third of their 2011/12 budget - and around 40% less than ours. If they stay in the SPL they'll not be at the sharp end of the action that's for sure.

It gets worse.

By my calculations for the 13/14 & 14/15 season:

Interest payments on debt = £840,000 per annum.
HMRC payments = £788,000 per annum (the repayments appear to be over 2 years rather than 3.)
Operating costs = £3,876,000 per annum* (based on last years figures)
Depreciation = £600,000 per annum (estimate)

Turnover = £7,000,000 (closer to 10/11 figures than 11/12)

Total left for wage budget to break even = £896,000

To put this into perspective, Hibs' wage bill in season 11/12 was £4,100,000.

Setting their wage budget at £2,800,000 means that they are relying on a cup victory or selling players for £1,900,000 during 13/14 season. Neither of which looks very likely for them and neither of which is very common for a Scottish club out with Rangers or Celtic.

Oh, I forgot their fan membership scheme which is still to be announced, in that case #allisbarry after all and they'll have no problems next season.

*You would assume they would find some way of reducing this figure but given that the PBS costs over £1,000,000 to maintain every season, they probably don't have much wiggle room. (Hibs' operating costs are around £3,100,000)

[Caversham Green]

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So its a piss take from Hearts then and the rest of the spl just have to suck it up?

I don't think the pledge thing changes anything. If I understand it correctly the shares were put up as security by UBIG for the debt they owed to UKIO. That in itself smells more than a bit, because the shares are worthless and no responsible bank would accept them as security for anything. However the shares are still actually owned by UBIG, who are without doubt the parent company and as they haven't gone bust yet (as far as anyone seems to know) there's no grounds for a points deduction there. The SPL rules do allow for points deductions if another group company goes bust and it's relevant to the club, but Ukio are not part of the UBIG group.

However, Heart of Midlothian 2005 Ltd were a part of the group and were relevant to the club, having been their intial parent company. That company has now been dissolved, so maybe there's a case for a points deduction after all.

[Hibee87]

Me thinks hearts have played there last hand, and hoped to bluff everyone.....and its backfired.

I am 99% sure that the 'appeal' over the bankrupcy would take weeks in hearts minds, even months to be heard giving them some breathing space. the fact its happening in 2 weeks time will signal the final nail in their coffin. admin followed quickly by liquidation will follow imo.

last thow of the dice.......and they lost.

[green glory]

I wonder what the starting prices will be for the new flats flats glorious flats.

[PatHead]

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Massive diffference between the huns and them. The Huns could be overspending as things stand but I would imagine they have a banking facility such as an overdraft to support this. The yams have hee haw so how could they continue to overspend? The story in the Sun is a load of pish and Anderson has picked it up to appease the puddle drinkers, nothing more.

The Rangers have no banking facilities as no one will offer them any.

[MacBean]

A wee bit like Craig David (just a day earlier in the wee).

We can win the cup on Sunday,
Have a wee parade on the Monday,
Hearts go bust on Tuesday...

[Hibrandenburg]

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This from kickback "Why is it any of their business? I hate that we are hated so much. I get it that Dundee will want to squirm out of relegation, but really, they deserve to go down - least points over the season. End of story. Why the clamour to kick us when we are down & clearly fighting not only for our SPL "status" but also for the very club itself. I ******* hate Scottish football clubs other than Hearts with a passion unrivalled. Dundee shouldn't even have been in the SPL in the 1st place, only got there as the result of financial meltdown, now they want to do it again? Do one I say. Parasites. "

there are so many contradictions it must have been written by a Hibby on the wind up.

Reads like many mails from old co prior to their demise