Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[CyberSauzee]

Just perusing the comments on this story...

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...vent-1-2788167

...and the very first one this morning had a very interesting story in the last reply. It's nothing more than a 'historical footnote' now, but worth a read nonetheless. Here for those of you who can't be bothered to find it:

Home Rule For Arradoul
9:33 AM on 13/02/2013
The "dunderheid" as he is referred to seems to know more about the Ukio/UBIG linkage than the Lithuanian regulatory authorities - even they can't judge the full implications yet so how a knee-jerk nae-sayer can surmise with anything other than hope and prayer is beyond reason.

In 2001 I was asked by a financial consultancy in Luxembourg to find a Baltic bank ripe for takeover by a small German investment bank. I approached the big auditors as you do in such circumstances and the likeliest suspect that emerged was Ukio - I was first to admit that I had never heard of them. The Germans came to the Baltics and met with the Managing Partner of the relevant major international auditor. After the Germans had looked at the Ukio paperwork there were many, many more questions than answers. The auditor gave the following summation of Ukio and I paraphrase, "A bunch of Kaunas businessman couldn't get reliable trade credit so they decided to start their own bank to issue their own guarantees and letters of credit. By pure luck they fell into the Vilnius-Kaunas faultline where most major banks were Vilnius based and they were the only Kaunas bank so locals in Kaunas proudly tipped their small savings into their local bank. Through nothing more than dumb luck they have become a player in the highly fragmented Lithuanian banking market. These guys are not bankers and have no illusions that they are and they want to get out before everything goes pop."

The Germans ran for the airport!

Luxembourg tried to bring Ukio into play again with a small Algerian bank. The meeting was in Zurich in the summer of 2002. I arranged that the auditing firm sent their dedicated banking guy from their Lithuanian main office, an Australian economist if I recall correctly. The meeting was wound up after an hour and the Algerians killed the whole thing stone dead.

As soon as Romanov came into Scottish football and failed with his first two takeover attempts (everyone forgets that Hearts were his third choice with Dundee and Dunfermline spurning his overtures) I was reminded of the Germans and the Algerians. The Tynecastle scenario at that time was obviously in a far more distressed state with an imminent departure from Gorgie and new lodgings at Murrayfield only short months away.

I'm not a Jambo but I have tremendous affection for that proud club and although the Romanov years have been far from plain sailing it has been a hell of a ride for the fans for good as well as bad. I passionately hope matters are resolved well for Hearts but comments from such "dunderheids" are just the equivalent of covering your ears and repeating loudly and often "Ah'm no listening, ah'm no listening!"

[Ross4356]

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As long as they ... win the Scottish cup, get drawn against an EPL side in the Europa League, fleece the muppets for £1M+ of donations, defer their tax bills and get their squad to give up their bonuses ... every season ... aye, they're totally self sufficient.

[EdinMike]

I liked this comment:

"Just wish the Hibbies would realise Hearts are to big to fail. Fan base and support in the city is to great. Hibs however are in a dire state. Biggest crowds this year at ER have all involved Hearts."

Failing to distinguish to and too. C -

Failing to realise no club is "to" big to fail. Priceless !

[Ryan91]

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I liked this comment:

"Just wish the Hibbies would realise Hearts are to big to fail. Fan base and support in the city is to great. Hibs however are in a dire state. Biggest crowds this year at ER have all involved Hearts."

Failing to distinguish to and too. C -

Failing to realise no club is "to" big to fail. Priceless !

Pretty sure the Huns were described as being 'too big to fail' and look what happened to them.

[Hank Schrader]

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Pretty sure the Huns were described as being 'too big to fail' and look what happened to them.

Exactly. And yet some Hibs fans on here are willing to confidently state that Hearts will "never go bust" despite not having an actual clue about the reality of the whole thing, its just a hunch based on them being a bunch of jammy gits from time to time.

Their luck is running out. This is not going to end well for them.

[monktonharp]

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The bit in bold is a load of p1sh.

aye, and the bit it emenated frae, is full o' wind and pish

[big-mo]

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Northern Rock example is different as they were bailed out and continue to trade.

Although the point about Tynie is spot on, Ukio don't own Tynie, they have 1st Charge on the property so as long as Hearts keep up there mortgage payments it can't be repossessed.

Where I reckon they will have a problem, if the club have an Ukio bank account, anything in there will surely be lost also they don't have Ukio or Vlad to run to should they need a short term loan to see them over til there next home game, jumble sale, cake bake.

Sounds like the running of Ukio has not all been above board and a criminal investigation could take place, surely the 1st to be hammered would be Romanov.

I have heard from a couple of sources that neither Romanov nor Ukio own Tynie, it was sold to a third party (property developers) a few years back, so the only assets Ukio hold is the club name and players and staff contracts.

[Gus Fring]

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I liked this comment:

"Just wish the Hibbies would realise Hearts are to big to fail. Fan base and support in the city is to great. Hibs however are in a dire state. Biggest crowds this year at ER have all involved Hearts."

Failing to distinguish to and too. C -

Failing to realise no club is "to" big to fail. Priceless !

He's clearly left out the Celtic game. Hearts attendances are only high because of the sheer volume of tickets they give away which is another reason they are going bust!

[hibs0666]

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I have heard from a couple of sources that neither Romanov nor Ukio own Tynie, it was sold to a third party (property developers) a few years back, so the only assets Ukio hold is the club name and players and staff contracts.

The stadium was most definitely on their books when they completed their last set of accounts.

[jgl07]

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The stadium was most definitely on their books when they completed their last set of accounts.

Yes but how long ago do the latest accounts relate to?

Hearts' accounts always seem to be a year behind everyone else.

[Emerald]

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The stadium was most definitely on their books when they completed their last set of accounts.

How much of a laugh would it be if it had been sold though! I wouldn't rule anything out with that lot.

[MacBean]

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I liked this comment:

"Just wish the Hibbies would realise Hearts are to big to fail. Fan base and support in the city is to great. Hibs however are in a dire state. Biggest crowds this year at ER have all involved Hearts."

Failing to distinguish to and too. C -

Failing to realise no club is "to" big to fail. Priceless !

and their biggest crowds were inevitably against us, or liverpool...

V Celtic we had 20 fans less than against Hearts...

[cabbageandribs1875]

will hertz still be around to try and win the league cup for the first time in 50 years

[littleplum]

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I liked this comment:

"Just wish the Hibbies would realise Hearts are to big to fail. Fan base and support in the city is to great. Hibs however are in a dire state. Biggest crowds this year at ER have all involved Hearts."

Failing to distinguish to and too. C -

Failing to realise no club is "to" big to fail. Priceless !

And the biggest crowd at the PBS this season involved Hibs. What's his point?

[Gus Fring]

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And the biggest crowd at the PBS this season involved Hibs. What's his point?

Naw, that canny be right? Mind they were on the brink of going bust and every Hearts fan had to buy a ticket for their match against St Mirren? Surely that was a sell out?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Yes but how long ago do the latest accounts relate to?

Hearts' accounts always seem to be a year behind everyone else.

June/July 2011.

We've been here before, about 100 pages ago. Any transfer should have been registered publicly, although it is possible that a sale has taken place and it not recorded.

That said, any transfer undermines the UKIO Bankas security, so I would have thought it unlikely.

[Jack Hackett]

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Naw, that canny be right? Mind they were on the brink of going bust and every Hearts fan had to buy a ticket for their match against St Mirren? Surely that was a sell out?

Nope. St Mirren fans were less than excited about turning out for the 'last ever match' than they were

[greenginger]

https://newsclient.omxgroup.com/cdsP...ssageId=667250


European Bank confirm they will provide the Siauliu Bank with the funds to take over the " Good Assets " of Ukio Bankas.


Suggesting that the Bad Assets will be left and liquidated with Ukio.

Anyone hazard a guess as to where HOMFC might be put ?


Time scale might be very short and, on the surface it is business as usual at the Pink Palace. Is there any actions their Board should be taking to safeguard the Club or is it totally out of their hands ?

[hibs0666]

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https://newsclient.omxgroup.com/cdsP...ssageId=667250


European Bank confirm they will provide the Siauliu Bank with the funds to take over the " Good Assets " of Ukio Bankas.


Suggesting that the Bad Assets will be left and liquidated with Ukio.

Anyone hazard a guess as to where HOMFC might be put ?


Time scale might be very short and, on the surface it is business as usual at the Pink Palace. Is there any actions their Board should be taking to safeguard the Club or is it totally out of their hands ?

If that happens then I guess that any assets related to the yams will be considered as junk. If the yams have no cash whatsoever then I assume that they will be allowed to fold, and the assets disposed of in as rapid a fashion as possible. However, if someone comes in quickly with any sort of offer (say 20p in the £), and have some cash to pee pee away, then the yams could still come out of this in a better shape then we all hope.

[StevieC]

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If that happens then I guess that any assets related to the yams will be considered as junk. If the yams have no cash whatsoever then I assume that they will be allowed to fold, and the assets disposed of in as rapid a fashion as possible. However, if someone comes in quickly with any sort of offer (say 20p in the £), and have some cash to pee pee away, then the yams could still come out of this in a better shape then we all hope.

I'm still trying to get my head round this, and hopefully one of the "experts" can clarify, but my understanding is that UKIO have no "direct" ability to dictate matters at Tynecastle and it all hinges on how UKIO deal with the UBIG debt?

[CropleyWasGod]

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I'm still trying to get my head round this, and hopefully one of the "experts" can clarify, but my understanding is that UKIO have no "direct" ability to dictate matters at Tynecastle and it all hinges on how UKIO deal with the UBIG debt?

That is exactly how I understand it, Stevie.

The "pot" in which HMFC will be put will be the same one that UBIG are put in. At the moment, HMFC are a secondary consideration. Once, however, the new bank decide what to do with UBIG, then the security over Tynie may become more important.

[EH6 Hibby]

When it says any bad assets will be liquidated with Ukio, does that mean sold off for as much as possible or written off?

[greenginger]

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That is exactly how I understand it, Stevie.

The "pot" in which HMFC will be put will be the same one that UBIG are put in. At the moment, HMFC are a secondary consideration. Once, however, the new bank decide what to do with UBIG, then the security over Tynie may become more important.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...ius-mover.html

Last para, £ 400 million of problem loans to Romanov companies ! I think we can assume UBIG is headed for the liquidator.

Does Pat the Plumber and the other maroon cardigan wearers just have to wait for an opportunity to buy the corpse or is there any action which can be taken to protect the Club ?

Not that I would want THEM to know, but as it would be classed as Hobonomics anyway, it would'nt matter.

[MB62]

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If that happens then I guess that any assets related to the yams will be considered as junk. If the yams have no cash whatsoever then I assume that they will be allowed to fold, and the assets disposed of in as rapid a fashion as possible. However, if someone comes in quickly with any sort of offer (say 20p in the £), and have some cash to pee pee away, then the yams could still come out of this in a better shape then we all hope.

At very worst, I see the Yams being in the same situation as Newco and playing 3rd div football for a while. They might not have a stadium to play in right enough, ground share with Livi maybe, or CEC building them a new one at Sighthill? but they will still be around, IM(uneducated)O

[Ozyhibby]

Be nice if it all happened tomorrow. Give new meaning to all those 1-5 hand gestures.

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At very worst, I see the Yams being in the same situation as Newco and playing 3rd div football for a while. They might not have a stadium to play in right enough, ground share with Livi maybe, or CEC building them a new one at Sighthill? but they will still be around, IM(uneducated)O

So, a new club with no stadium, no history, no titles or cup wins, no 5-1, playing in Livingston ( council have no money for a 20,000 seat stadium).
That will do for me.

[Sergey]

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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...ius-mover.html

Last para, £ 400 million of problem loans to Romanov companies ! I think we can assume UBIG is headed for the liquidator.

Does Pat the Plumber and the other maroon cardigan wearers just have to wait for an opportunity to buy the corpse or is there any action which can be taken to protect the Club ?

Not that I would want THEM to know, but as it would be classed as Hobonomics anyway, it would'nt matter.

Got to remember, GG, that whatever happens from now on, it's not in the hands of Vlad to call the shots.

I'd be extremely concerned if I was a Yam.

[StevieC]

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That is exactly how I understand it, Stevie.

The "pot" in which HMFC will be put will be the same one that UBIG are put in. At the moment, HMFC are a secondary consideration. Once, however, the new bank decide what to do with UBIG, then the security over Tynie may become more important.

I know it's impossible to give an accurate answer but what's your own personal view on the possible outcomes between UKIO and UBIG?

It sounds like UBIG have a lot of (unsecured?) debt to UKIO so what is the normal procedure for banks recovering debt from companies that owe a lot more than is actually secured?

Does anyone know the ins and outs of the basketball team saga, the transfer of their stadium to UKIO, and why that was actually done?

[CropleyWasGod]

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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...ius-mover.html

Last para, £ 400 million of problem loans to Romanov companies ! I think we can assume UBIG is headed for the liquidator.

Does Pat the Plumber and the other maroon cardigan wearers just have to wait for an opportunity to buy the corpse or is there any action which can be taken to protect the Club ?

Not that I would want THEM to know, but as it would be classed as Hobonomics anyway, it would'nt matter.

IMHO, things have gone too far for any protective action on the part of the club. They can only sit and wait.

That said, once the new bank starts to move on the UBIG debt, there could be an opportunity for a deal with Pat & Co. One can see the situation whereby the bank weighs up alternative courses of action. 1. call in the security, take control of Tynie, market it, sell it (if they can), with all the attendant time and expense. or 2. accept an offer just to get some cash in. That offer, of course, might come from a property developer.

[Sergey]

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I know it's impossible to give an accurate answer but what's your own personal view on the possible outcomes between UKIO and UBIG?

It sounds like UBIG have a lot of (unsecured?) debt to UKIO so what is the normal procedure for banks recovering debt from companies that owe a lot more than is actually secured?

Does anyone know the ins and outs of the basketball team saga, the transfer of their stadium to UKIO, and why that was actually done?

Ukio don't own the Zalgiris basketball stadium but UBIG did run the management of it in conjunction with Kaunas Council. It's state owned.

What Ukio own is a dilapidated arena on the other side of the river (Zalgirio sporto arena) that they were hoping to convert into private accommodation and build a new stadia. Unfortunately the site is also the location of an old Jewish burial ground and no planning consent was granted.

This is undoubtedly one of the pieces of real estate that's been grossly overvalued.

[CropleyWasGod]

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I know it's impossible to give an accurate answer but what's your own personal view on the possible outcomes between UKIO and UBIG?

It sounds like UBIG have a lot of (unsecured?) debt to UKIO so what is the normal procedure for banks recovering debt from companies that owe a lot more than is actually secured?

Does anyone know the ins and outs of the basketball team saga, the transfer of their stadium to UKIO, and why that was actually done?

There is no "normal" here

Joking apart, we are also talking about Lithuanian law, the intricacies of which may be different from what I'm used to. In general terms, though, I would expect the new bank to be appointing an administrator very soon to take charge of UBIG's assets. The end-product of that would be to recover as much for the bank as possible. Some of that recovery would be in cash, but the majority would be in assets. .I am not sure how the Bosnian plant stands in all of this, but it's that type of property that would be most at risk.