Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

***CropleyWasGod*** · 31-01-2013 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by Spike Mandela

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http://www.scotzine.com/2013/01/spl-...ngers-hearing/

Interesting that, despite them insisting that they would not co-operate, Newco were represented at the hearing.

Interesting, but not really surprising

**green glory** · 04-02-2013 08:32 AM

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/is-...t-to-collapse/

***Just Alf*** · 04-02-2013 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by green glory

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http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/is-...t-to-collapse/

Hmmmm..... could this be as bad as it looks?

**~~Saorsa~~** · 04-02-2013 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by Sir Alf R

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Hmmmm..... could this be as bad as it looks?

with a bit of luck

***CropleyWasGod*** · 04-02-2013 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by Sir Alf R

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Hmmmm..... could this be as bad as it looks?

It could be, it may not be.

Without criticising the Celtc-minded bloggers too much (after all, their part in all of this has been significant), I sometimes wonder if they look for things that aren't there. That said, of course, those questions should have been asked by the MSM.

***Just Alf*** · 04-02-2013 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by Desperate Dan

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with a bit of luck

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

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It could be, it may not be.

Without criticising the Celtc-minded bloggers too much (after all, their part in all of this has been significant), I sometimes wonder if they look for things that aren't there. That said, of course, those questions should have been asked by the MSM.

Fingers crossed then!

**Alex Trager** · 04-02-2013 10:32 AM

Could I get a informed response to a question I know will have been asked and answered many times on this thread already but I can't be bothered sifting through. Are the rangers the same club/company as Glasgow rangers fc. If so what actually happens when a club is liquidated like they were. Of course they were put Into the third div but I personally don't think that that does justice. Also what happened with the big tax case issue etc? I k ow I'm asking a lot. But I always find myself arguing with one of them, of course he doesn't attend the matches, work used to be his reason, now it can't be, but anyhoo please can anyone help?

**~~hibs0666~~** · 04-02-2013 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by Seanduff

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Could I get a informed response to a question I know will have been asked and answered many times on this thread already but I can't be bothered sifting through. Are the rangers the same club/company as Glasgow rangers fc. If so what actually happens when a club is liquidated like they were. Of course they were put Into the third div but I personally don't think that that does justice. Also what happened with the big tax case issue etc? I k ow I'm asking a lot. But I always find myself arguing with one of them, of course he doesn't attend the matches, work used to be his reason, now it can't be, but anyhoo please can anyone help?

Head says no. Heart says yes.

***CropleyWasGod*** · 04-02-2013 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Seanduff

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Could I get a informed response to a question I know will have been asked and answered many times on this thread already but I can't be bothered sifting through. Are the rangers the same club/company as Glasgow rangers fc. If so what actually happens when a club is liquidated like they were. Of course they were put Into the third div but I personally don't think that that does justice. Also what happened with the big tax case issue etc? I k ow I'm asking a lot. But I always find myself arguing with one of them, of course he doesn't attend the matches, work used to be his reason, now it can't be, but anyhoo please can anyone help?

Okay, a few questions there:-

1. the company that now operates as Rangers is not the same company that operated as them prior to last summer.

2. the old company has not been liquidated. It is "in liquidation". There may be a few twists and turns yet before it is liquidated, ie dissolved. For example, the liquidators may question the validity of the transfer of the assets to the new company, or perhaps the conduct of the directors of the old company.

3. the question of whether it is the same CLUB is much less definite. I have my own opinion, many have a different one. FWIW, I don't think that it is a question that can ever be actually answered, except in the minds of individuals.

4. the tax case. The judgement on this, largely, went in their favour. However, it was not the "not guilty" that the media reported.... it was more of "guilty in some things, not so in others." There is an appeal pending by HMRC.

5. the SPL commission investigating the alleged double-contracts has heard all the evidence, and will now take some time to consider its verdict.

Any help?

***JimBHibees*** · 04-02-2013 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by Seanduff

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Could I get a informed response to a question I know will have been asked and answered many times on this thread already but I can't be bothered sifting through. Are the rangers the same club/company as Glasgow rangers fc. If so what actually happens when a club is liquidated like they were. Of course they were put Into the third div but I personally don't think that that does justice. Also what happened with the big tax case issue etc? I k ow I'm asking a lot. But I always find myself arguing with one of them, of course he doesn't attend the matches, work used to be his reason, now it can't be, but anyhoo please can anyone help?

Here's my less than informed stab at it

1) they are a different company. Rangers no longer exist and all their debts were in effect written off. Charlie Green bought up the assets (club, training centre, players under a new company 'The Rangers'.)

2) Big tax case was represented in most of the Scottish media as a win for Rangers however the club admitted to a number of charges of paying players illegally. HMRC indicate they may appeal initial decision so isnt finished yet.

3)There is a judicial inquiry about to give a decision on a number of football related aspects such as dual contracts etc. Not sure how punishment might be given out as there will be the argument 'but that was the old club'. Likely individuals involved in oldco may be chased.

I am sure CWG and Cav will rip this up but think that is about it IMO.

**green glory** · 04-02-2013 11:56 AM

Alex Thomson confirming HMRC definitely appealing.

https://twitter.com/alextomo/status/298414176102150145

**green glory** · 04-02-2013 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by green glory

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Alex Thomson confirming HMRC definitely appealing.

https://twitter.com/alextomo/status/298414176102150145

For non twatters.

@alextomo: HMRC just emailed. For clarity their leave to appeal on R tax case has been granted. Appeal has been lodged.

***Stevie Reid*** · 04-02-2013 01:15 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-west-21326039

HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) has lodged an appealed against a tax tribunal ruling in favour of Rangers' use of Employee Benefit Trusts (EBTs).
HMRC had claimed the scheme, which was used from 2001 to 2010 to make £47.65m in payments to players and staff in the form of tax-free loans, was illegal.
Rangers disputed this and a First Tier Tax Tribunal (FTT) ruled the scheme did not breach tax law.
The case will now be heard at a Second Tier Tax Tribunal (STT).
HMRC said on Monday that it had been granted leave to appeal against the FTT decision and that the appeal had subsequently been filed.
If the dispute is not settled at the STT, it is possible that it may go all the way to the Supreme Court - a process that could take years.
The FTT, before three judges, concluded in January, by a majority of two to one, that the EBT payments were loans, not earnings, and so were not liable for income tax.
CVA rejected Rangers began using the EBT scheme while under the control of Sir David Murray.
He sold the club for £1 to Scottish businessman Craig Whyte in 2011, while the tax liability was in dispute.
Rangers were subsequently forced into administration by HMRC in February 2012, over non-payment of tax totalling about £14m, while under Mr Whyte's control.
HMRC subsequently rejected proposals for a creditors agreement that would have allowed the old Rangers to continue.
Administrators Duff and Phelps then negotiated a sale of assets to a consortium led by Charles Green for £5.5m.
He has since re-launched the club in the Scottish Third Division.

***cabbageandribs1875*** · 04-02-2013 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by Stevie Reid

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-west-21326039

HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) has lodged an appealed against a tax tribunal ruling in favour of Rangers' use of Employee Benefit Trusts (EBTs).
HMRC had claimed the scheme, which was used from 2001 to 2010 to make £47.65m in payments to players and staff in the form of tax-free loans, was illegal.
.

and here's the funny thing, the man who set up these tax 'avoidance' schemes at both the Glasgow rangers and Edinburgh rangers(let's call them hearts for short) actually made the draw for the SC yesterday....that **** campbell ogilvie should be put out on permanent garden leave

***greenginger*** · 04-02-2013 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by green glory

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Alex Thomson confirming HMRC definitely appealing.

https://twitter.com/alextomo/status/298414176102150145

Has fat Sally demanded to know the names of the HMRC people who made this decision ?

**~~LeighLoyal~~** · 04-02-2013 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by greenginger

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Has fat Sally demanded to know the names of the HMRC people who made this decision ?

No doubt the wee lardy one is keeping his powder dry for Lord Nimmo's tribunal.

**green glory** · 06-02-2013 02:23 PM

Rangers winding up petition. Har har!

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thoms...-petition/4020

**Haymaker** · 06-02-2013 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by green glory

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Rangers winding up petition. Har har!

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thoms...-petition/4020

***Ryan91*** · 06-02-2013 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by green glory

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Rangers winding up petition. Har har!

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thoms...-petition/4020

The wheels are starting to come off of NewCo already, my heart bleeds for them.

Aye right!

**~~Peevemor~~** · 06-02-2013 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by green glory

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Rangers winding up petition. Har har!

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thoms...-petition/4020

Are you jam tarts in disguise? ...

***basehibby*** · 06-02-2013 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by green glory

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Alex Thomson confirming HMRC definitely appealing.

https://twitter.com/alextomo/status/298414176102150145

Not how I would describe them but each to their own eh?!?

**~~Saorsa~~** · 06-02-2013 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by green glory

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Rangers winding up petition. Har har!

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thoms...-petition/4020

**Treadstone** · 06-02-2013 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by green glory

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Rangers winding up petition. Har har!

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thoms...-petition/4020

If Alex Thomson was chocolate he would eat himself :

"I am now able to clarify the situation regarding the winding-up order which may soon be served..."

Thanks for clarifying that one.

***basehibby*** · 06-02-2013 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by green glory

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Rangers winding up petition. Har har!

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thoms...-petition/4020

I don't think TheRangers will have much problem settling this debt - Charles Green is merely showing that under his innocent veneer of an ignorant moronic trumpet lurks his true personality - ie that of a slippery disingenuous creep.

***lapsedhibee*** · 06-02-2013 02:56 PM

Winding up order for a debt of £400,000?

No problem. Wind up The Rangers, bang goes the £400,000 debt, start up next week as The The Rangers debt free. Think that's how it works innit?

Nothing to see there.

***JimBHibees*** · 06-02-2013 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by Treadstone

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If Alex Thomson was chocolate he would eat himself :

"I am now able to clarify the situation regarding the winding-up order which may soon be served..."

Thanks for clarifying that one.

Maybe so but he is the only journalist prepared to ask any meaningful questions while the others meekly accept hospitality and doff their caps to all things Gers.

***Billy Whizz*** · 06-02-2013 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by JimBHibees

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Maybe so but he is the only journalist prepared to ask any meaningful questions while the others meekly accept hospitality and doff their caps to all things Gers.

Or accept jobs as the director of communications!