Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

[johnbc70]

Anyone thinking it would be worthwhile 'shorting' The Rangers shares when they float on the stock market i.e. you bet that the share price will go down.

[LeighLoyal]

These 'institutional investors' must be delighted at the zombie's take up.

[greenginger]

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/e...ers+int&page=1

Anyone interested in the Rangers International share price ?

[Part/Time Supporter]

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Chuckie now blaming HMRC for their miserable flop of a share issue. Wonder if The Rangers will ever accept responsibility for anything?

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...ming-1-2697314

They wouldn't have got anything near £17M from pension funds, etc if they hadn't received approval from HMRC for EIS and VCT status.

[Ozyhibby]

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Anyone thinking it would be worthwhile 'shorting' The Rangers shares when they float on the stock market i.e. you bet that the share price will go down.

To be able to go short on a stock you need someone else to go long on it.
Good luck finding someone.

[Iain G]

What is this 140 year old institution Green is referring to?!

[cocteautwin]

Looking at it from an objective point of view, it might be an alright investment.

Next season they'll probably be playing in a restructured football league, being placed in "Division 2" which will be 18 teams and the season after that they'll get promoted to the top division of 16 teams. By this restructuring they'll avoid one extra season out of the top division. They'll have had 2 seasons on the cheap with near full support and then enter the top division as the strongest team financially. First season back, it's likely that they will emerge winners of the restructured top division.

Are the Chairmen of the other clubs in the Scottish league going to have the bottle to turn down the 16/18 team stucture of the top 2 divisions? I doubt it.

First season after they ar back, watch for another league restructure back to 4 divisions with the top division being 12 teams only.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Looking at it from an objective point of view, it might be an alright investment.

Next season they'll probably be playing in a restructured football league, being placed in "Division 2" which will be 18 teams and the season after that they'll get promoted to the top division of 16 teams. By this restructuring they'll avoid one extra season out of the top division. They'll have had 2 seasons on the cheap with near full support and then enter the top division as the strongest team financially. First season back, it's likely that they will emerge winners of the restructured top division.

Are the Chairmen of the other clubs in the Scottish league going to have the bottle to turn down the 16/18 team stucture of the top 2 divisions? I doubt it.

First season after they ar back, watch for another league restructure back to 4 divisions with the top division being 12 teams only.

Devil's Advocate on the "sound investment".

1. I am pretty sure that the new League won't be in place for next year.

2. of the £22m apparently raised, just under half is earmarked for improvements to Ibrox.

3. from various sources, it looks like a loss of £10m is expected this year. I can't see next year being any different. They pay their manager more than any of their current competitors turn over.

4. the directors of the new company are concerned about possible action by BDO over the apparent undervaluing of the assets which they bought from the Oldco.

[cocteautwin]

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Devil's Advocate on the "sound investment".

1. I am pretty sure that the new League won't be in place for next year.

2. of the £22m apparently raised, just under half is earmarked for improvements to Ibrox.

3. from various sources, it looks like a loss of £10m is expected this year. I can't see next year being any different. They pay their manager more than any of their current competitors turn over.

4. the directors of the new company are concerned about possible action by BDO over the apparent undervaluing of the assets which they bought from the Oldco.

Actually, to be quite honest, I wasn't really serious about the investment potential, I was just hoping to start a debate on the league restructure that The Rangers are hoping for. I think it will happen before the start of next season and it will be engineered to allow them one less season out of the top division. It's something that's not really talked about generally and I, for one, am frightened that fans are sleep walking in to it happening. Can we start a national campaign from here to protest this happening before it's even suggested by the Scottish football authorities?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Actually, to be quite honest, I wasn't really serious about the investment potential, I was just hoping to start a debate on the league restructure that The Rangers are hoping for. I think it will happen before the start of next season and it will be engineered to allow them one less season out of the top division. It's something that's not really talked about generally and I, for one, am frightened that fans are sleep walking in to it happening. Can we start a national campaign from here to protest this happening before it's even suggested by the Scottish football authorities?

Rod said at the AGM, without prompting, that the new proposals were not a means of getting Rangers back in the top league quicker.

One has to believe him at this stage. However, QED, the club chairmen would be wise not to ignore their fans if they do have other intentions.

On reflection, having just scribbled some stats down, I still don't see how RFC could get back in to the top League any quicker than they would under the current system.

[proud_and_green]

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What is this 140 year old institution Green is referring to?!

This is a competition isn't it.........?

Is it the one he gets taken off to at the end of each day out in the community......?

[ballengeich]

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Devil's Advocate on the "sound investment".

1. I am pretty sure that the new League won't be in place for next year.

2. of the £22m apparently raised, just under half is earmarked for improvements to Ibrox.

3. from various sources, it looks like a loss of £10m is expected this year. I can't see next year being any different. They pay their manager more than any of their current competitors turn over.

4. the directors of the new company are concerned about possible action by BDO over the apparent undervaluing of the assets which they bought from the Oldco.

Another point about the current value of the club at around £45 million is that for institutional investors that has to be justified by dividend payments of £4 million a year or so. Where's this to come from in the foreseeable future given a likely current loss and use of much of the funds for Ibrox improvements (quite possibly long-neglected essential maintenance not making much addition to revenue)?

While investment in small companies is inherently a high risk area, I'm surprised they got so much institutional money given the history of non-dividend payments by football clubs, the track record of some of the individuals behind Sevco and above all the prospectus.

Possibly they've bought into Green's pitch of strict cost control and participation in a revised structure of European football. I expect a renewed drive for a UK league, probably starting in 2016-17 as Rangers are likely to be back in the SPL in 2015-16. A bit off topic, but the result of the 2014 independence referendum could have a significant effect on the debate.

[cocteautwin]

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On reflection, having just scribbled some stats down, I still don't see how RFC could get back in to the top League any quicker than they would under the current system.

Rangers finish top of Div 3 this year, effectively becoming the the 33rd best team in Scotland.

New Top Division includes 16 teams, being 12 from Premier League and 4 from Division 1.

New second Division includes 18 teams, being 6 from Division 1, 10 from Division 2 and the top 2 in Division 3.

New Division 3 includes . . . . . . . . . actually, SFA/SFL/SPL doesn't care about division 3 now that the crooks at the top of Scottish football have achieved their crooked aim of getting Rangers up there a year quicker.

Or am I missing something?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Rangers finish top of Div 3 this year, effectively becoming the the 33rd best team in Scotland.

New Top Division includes 16 teams, being 12 from Premier League and 4 from Division 1.

New second Division includes 18 teams, being 6 from Division 1, 10 from Division 2 and the top 2 in Division 3.

New Division 3 includes . . . . . . . . . actually, SFA/SFL/SPL doesn't care about division 3 now that the crooks at the top of Scottish football have achieved their crooked aim of getting Rangers up there a year quicker.

Or am I missing something?

I was working on this plan, which I thought was the favoured one:-

Two leagues, an SPL1 and SPL2, would be formed, both consisting of 12 teams respectively. Each team would play each other twice in their respective divisions, creating 22 fixtures.

After two rounds, the leagues would then merge and split into three groups of eight. Each team would again play each other twice, leading to a total of 36 games being played across the course of the campaign.

The clubs in the top eight at the split would contend for the title and European spots, and would be guaranteed a place in SPL1 in the new season.

The middle group would arguably be the most competitive. The teams finishing in the top four positions would play in SPL1 in the new campaign, with the bottom four playing in SPL2.

The bottom group would fight it out to avoid relegation to the SFL. It is not clear at this stage how many relegation spots would be opened up.

[southsider]

Now that newcorfc are again flush with cash will Green be a man and payback all those they chose not to pay ? No he will continue to be a rat and never will have any class or scruples.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Now that newcorfc are again flush with cash will Green be a man and payback all those they chose not to pay ? No he will continue to be a rat and never will have any class or scruples.

Like who?

[greenginger]

I take it the £ 22 million raised would be the Gross amount. The £ 17 million which was placed with the institutions would be subject to the Stockbrokers commission of 5 - 7 % and they would have to be discounted to the institutions. I have heard figures of up to 15 % for certain placements.

Don't suppose Chuckie will be forthcoming on the actual cash figure the New Club is enriched by.

[southsider]

There were lists of creditors who went unpaid and who will never receive a penny. The Limited Company laws are outdated and directors should be made to take full responsibility for their companies failings even if it means selling every asset they have, in order to pay the creditors. While i am at it the creditor who is due the least should be paid first and work from the bottom up. The corner shop and the window cleaner need the cash a lot more than ticketus, if you get my drift. Newco should never have been allowed in any league untill all oldco debts were paid.

[cocteautwin]

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I was working on this plan, which I thought was the favoured one:-

Two leagues, an SPL1 and SPL2, would be formed, both consisting of 12 teams respectively. Each team would play each other twice in their respective divisions, creating 22 fixtures.

After two rounds, the leagues would then merge and split into three groups of eight. Each team would again play each other twice, leading to a total of 36 games being played across the course of the campaign.

The clubs in the top eight at the split would contend for the title and European spots, and would be guaranteed a place in SPL1 in the new season.

The middle group would arguably be the most competitive. The teams finishing in the top four positions would play in SPL1 in the new campaign, with the bottom four playing in SPL2.

The bottom group would fight it out to avoid relegation to the SFL. It is not clear at this stage how many relegation spots would be opened up.

Ah yes. The "Official" plan. Meanwhile, in the background, . . . . . . . . . . .

[CropleyWasGod]

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There were lists of creditors who went unpaid and who will never receive a penny. The Limited Company laws are outdated and directors should be made to take full responsibility for their companies failings even if it means selling every asset they have, in order to pay the creditors. While i am at it the creditor who is due the least should be paid first and work from the bottom up. The corner shop and the window cleaner need the cash a lot more than ticketus, if you get my drift. Newco should never have been allowed in any league untill all oldco debts were paid.

There are laws in place which allow for directors to be pursued personally in the event of wrongful trading. BDO may yet go down that route.

However , Green will not be affected directly by that; those debts are none of his concern. It would only be those directors in the SDM and CW dynasties who might be open to prosecution.

As for your Ticketus point, Pathead will be along in a minute to explain exactly why those small investors in Ticketus would disagree.

[PatHead]

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There are laws in place which allow for directors to be pursued personally in the event of wrongful trading. BDO may yet go down that route.

However , Green will not be affected directly by that; those debts are none of his concern. It would only be those directors in the SDM and CW dynasties.

As for your Ticketus point, Pathead will be along in a minute to explain exactly why those small investors in Ticketus would disagree.

Essentially any EIS is full of smaller investors, many of whom will have a lesser debt than some of these middle ranking creditors. Why should they lose out as they wouldn't have chosen to invest in the Rangers ticket deal, that was the choice of the fund manager.

To be fair they were aware it was a high risk investment and did receive a very good tax incentive for making the investment. Still don't see why they should go to the bottom of the list though.

[Keith_M]

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Chuckie now blaming HMRC for their miserable flop of a share issue. Wonder if The Rangers will ever accept responsibility for anything?

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...ming-1-2697314

Sorry but how is it a 'miserable flop' if they've raised 22M?

[PatHead]

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Sorry but how is it a 'miserable flop' if they've raised 22M?

At the time I posted it was being reported that they had sold approx £2m to their fans. If I am correct I think this increased to £5m by closing time. With regard to the £22m I still am not convinced they have raised £22m. They may have "sold" £22m worth of shares and it wouldn't surprise me if this figure includes the freebies to Green, McCoist and other directors and finally to Mike Ashley for buying the rights to all The Rangers sports gear. In addition there will be large discounts applied to instituional investors, costs of the share issue etc. But to be fair if Chuckie told me today was Wednesday I would be check. I wouldn't believe a word that comes out of his mouth and I bet he gets more out it than The Rangers will in the long term.

Probably models himself on the directors of Comet.

[Spike Mandela]

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Sorry but how is it a 'miserable flop' if they've raised 22M?

Still less than the amount they swindled out of ticketus.

[Iain G]

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This is a competition isn't it.........?

Is it the one he gets taken off to at the end of each day out in the community......?

I can only assume he is using the same accountants as the old defunct Rangers football team who still cant manage to do the math properly; or he is counting in 'hun' years which are like dog years, and one hun year equals about one day in normal time...?!

[bathhibby]

According to the latest Private Eye Green and the original investors only paid 1P for their shares so a tidy profit for them.

I wonder if this was his original goal or maybe he is really a knuckle dragging bigot ?

[cabbageandribs1875]

poor wee lambs

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...jibe-1-2694792

“Currently top of the table, they will be hoping to go on to seal the title and clinch their first silverware.”


that article in the montrose programme is correct, so wtf are they moaning about now...

[VickMackie]

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I was working on this plan, which I thought was the favoured one:-

Two leagues, an SPL1 and SPL2, would be formed, both consisting of 12 teams respectively. Each team would play each other twice in their respective divisions, creating 22 fixtures.

After two rounds, the leagues would then merge and split into three groups of eight. Each team would again play each other twice, leading to a total of 36 games being played across the course of the campaign.

The clubs in the top eight at the split would contend for the title and European spots, and would be guaranteed a place in SPL1 in the new season.

The middle group would arguably be the most competitive. The teams finishing in the top four positions would play in SPL1 in the new campaign, with the bottom four playing in SPL2.

The bottom group would fight it out to avoid relegation to the SFL. It is not clear at this stage how many relegation spots would be opened up.

I was pretty sure the new leagues would be created on an invite basis. Therefore, rangers would be invited.

[BarneyK]

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I was pretty sure the new leagues would be created on an invite basis. Therefore, rangers would be invited.

Stewart Milne has denied that's the case.

[neilmartinrocks]

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I was pretty sure the new leagues would be created on an invite basis. Therefore, rangers would be invited.

The rangers would have to be invited.....coz they would be well ****ed if it was on merit.