Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[CropleyWasGod]

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There is no doubt though that more relaxed behaviours are distorting the market and (unfairly IMO) advantage ****** clubs (in maroon) over pristine clubs (in green).

One might argue (and I'm playing devil's advocate here) that they are helping to maintain the market... and that is preferable, in commercial terms, to UK plc.

[Smidge]

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The card holder can't just cancel the transaction, that's wrong. Debit card payments should be treated like cash, once the payment is agreed legitimately (I.e. with the card holder's authorisation) then payment is guaranteed to the merchant. If the card holder no longer wanted to go through with the sale then they need to go through the merchant (I.e. the yams).

Credit cards are slightly different but the principle is the same in that you can't just cancel the payment because you changed your mind.

Sorry, if I was unclear. The principle, however, is that the credit card holder can ultimately claim their money back from their card issuer if the service they have paid for doesn't materialise or is defective and they payee doesn't refund themselves. For example, if they had paid for non-existent shares in a company that "suddenly" became insolvent or tickets for a sporting event that doesn't take place because one party has "suddenly" become insolvent. It might also be the case that this would apply in the first example if the company offering shares did so in a manner that could be borderline fraudulent, e.g. leaving out some of their liabilities from the prospectus.

The cardholder has the same rights against their card issuer as they would against the person who ultimately received their payment. The card issuer then would pursue the payee through the system, hence the need for indemnities/insurance for those who lack credit worthiness.

Obviously, this only applies to credit cards, however, you would have to withdraw the full facilities these days as I don't think they would be able to discriminate between Visa Credit and Visa Debit cards.

[Keith_M]

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Is there any info on the court of session appearance today? And more importantly have they actually stumped up any cash for Hector yet?

Could someone point me to an article that definitely states they HAVE to pay the first installment by today at the latest? It seems to have been mentioned on here a number of times but I've yet to ready anything that states this so precisely.

(not a dig at you, GG)

[CropleyWasGod]

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Could someone point me to an article that definitely states they HAVE to pay the first installment by today at the latest? It seems to have been mentioned on here a number of times but I've yet to ready anything that states this so precisely.

(not a dig at you, GG)

I think it's assumption more than anything, TBH.

I, for one, would have expected HMRC to demand part-payment this week; that would be normal.

However, the clock is ticking.... wages today, and another PAYE payment due next Thursday. Going by Hearts' own statement, the latter is a must.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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To be fair, you're hardly Mr Optimism either.

Going by their user names it looks like Jim was 24 when his laddie was born! ;-)

[Golden Bear]

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To be fair to Jim44, I played golf with him in heavy rain where he pulled on a pair of marigolds with the theory that as the gloves and grips were both rubber, a better purchase would be achieved. If that's not optimism I don't know what is!

Jim's latest weapon against the wet weather is his £30 pair of waterproof socks which apparently are the real deal.

Are you there Jim?

[s.a.m]

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There is no doubt though that more relaxed behaviours are distorting the market and (unfairly IMO) advantage ****** clubs (in maroon) over pristine clubs (in green).

While I completely agree with you, I think they would argue that it's the job of the football authorites to set the parameters and regulations for fair competition, while theirs is simply the collection of tax. A less spineless governing body (along with less selfish clubs) might have agreed rules to ensure this.

[green glory]

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Could someone point me to an article that definitely states they HAVE to pay the first installment by today at the latest? It seems to have been mentioned on here a number of times but I've yet to ready anything that states this so precisely.

(not a dig at you, GG)

I've seen it mentioned a lot here too so not entirely sure. Yams at work saying the first £225,000 was paid last night. There doesn't seem to be any confirmation in the media though. You'd think HoMFC would be trumpeting this from the rooftops as would Yam friendly hacks like Barry Anderson in the EEN? Not a peep anywhere though including the many journos I have on Twitter.

[Jim44]

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To be fair to Jim44, I played golf with him in heavy rain where he pulled on a pair of marigolds with the theory that as the gloves and grips were both rubber, a better purchase would be achieved. If that's not optimism I don't know what is!

Keep up, Dave. Marigolds are old hat now. I've progressed to 'Gripz' ........ they're the dog's bollocks. :-)

[hibs0666]

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One might argue (and I'm playing devil's advocate here) that they are helping to maintain the market... and that is preferable, in commercial terms, to UK plc.

But is it desirable to prop up a market with free loans from the taxpayer to a small number of basket cases? In my more liberal moments I would say yes. However, when it comes to those roasters I'm more of a jackboot nazi than Medals McKay.

[copycat]

My educated guess on the merchant services decision is due to the commission bill not being paid, all monies paid would go directly through once authorised, however, the retailer would then also pay a commission for their services and so I would think for them to take such a drastic decision is down to them not paying this and a relatively large amount outstanding, until this is paid there will be no merchant services.

Pretty poor and really shows just what a state they are in.

[Jim44]

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Jim's latest weapon against the wet weather is his £30 pair of waterproof socks which apparently are the real deal.

Are you there Jim?

If these waterproof socks had fingers, the grip would be fantastic. :-)

[Niffy]

I use card services in 2 locations, and they take their cut off the money before it hits my account.
It takes 3-5 days usually to get the cash in... maybe Hearts couldn't wait that long ?

[Keith_M]

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I think it's assumption more than anything, TBH.

I, for one, would have expected HMRC to demand part-payment this week; that would be normal.

However, the clock is ticking.... wages today, and another PAYE payment due next Thursday. Going by Hearts' own statement, the latter is a must.

I did wonder if people were just assuming this to be the case, with the court case being scheduled for today. TBF, there have been conflicting and confused reports in various papers and Hearts have made no definitive statement (despite their claims of transparency) about what's due and when. They haven't released details of who at the club is due to be paid today and if that has actually happened.

I've decided to work on the assumption that there was NO payment due, until I hear otherwise.

There will, however, be a payment due next week of the PAYE and NI deducted from October's wages. That should be interesting how they manage both that and a total of 450k by 3rd Dec (now only 17 days away). They then have to pay November and December's wages (presuming they're not also deferred) sometime in December along with the PAYE and NI for the November wages.

[jacomo]

It's sad that Robbo either doesn't realise he's been duped, or does realise yet is happy to keep the charade going:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...club-1-2641095

“The £450,000 bill that came out of the blue doesn’t change my stance at all. HMRC brought that out 24 hours after we’d launched the share scheme. It was strange timing from them but the main thing is that the club have arranged the two payments. If the fans keep donating, there’s real hope that we’ll raise the money we need.”

If they hit the £1.79m target for their share issue I'll eat my scarf.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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It's sad that Robbo either doesn't realise he's been duped, or does realise yet is happy to keep the charade going:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...club-1-2641095



If they hit the £1.79m target for their share issue I'll eat my scarf.

Regardless of what happened before, or has happened since, I'll always be grateful to John Robertson's courageous defiance of the FTB during the takeover bid. Guys like him, and Jimmy Sandison showed true class in the way they appreciated exactly what was going on, and I have a lot of time for them both.

[jacomo]

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Regardless of what happened before, or has happened since, I'll always be grateful to John Robertson's courageous defiance of the FTB during the takeover bid. Guys like him, and Jimmy Sandison showed true class in the way they appreciated exactly what was going on, and I have a lot of time for them both.

Yup, fair enough. Unfortunately, right now he's encouraging people to be effectively blackmailed into pouring their cash directly into Vlad's pocket. It's no right.

[weecounty hibby]

There seems to be a fair bit of revisionism on a few threads regarding the common or garden Jambo and how much help and by how many we got during the HOH battle against Mercer. I do remember Robertson at the HOH rally at the Usher Hall but my overriding memory of it all was most of them having a right good laugh at us. IMO that was the start of the misplaced arrogance that has now come back to bite them on the arse big time. They have got themselves into this mess and for their arrogance for years I for one don't care if they ever play another game of football.

[clerriehibs]

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Yup, fair enough. Unfortunately, right now he's encouraging people to be effectively blackmailed into pouring their cash directly into Vlad's pocket. It's no right.

Eh? It's brilliant! Their club's screwed and it's double your money because all the trumpets are losing their money too.

[truehibernian]

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Regardless of what happened before, or has happened since, I'll always be grateful to John Robertson's courageous defiance of the FTB during the takeover bid. Guys like him, and Jimmy Sandison showed true class in the way they appreciated exactly what was going on, and I have a lot of time for them both.

I was talking to a female friend of mine recently who knows Robertson well - not 'that well' - but very friendly with him and his family. Her words to me when talking football were 'aye dont be fooled about him being a Jambo.....John's never forgotten his first love of Hibs'

Now I of course challenged it but she got more and more angry at me questioning it - she's a Hearts fan herself and she was insistent that wee Robbo was a wee tortured soul. His children are split, supporting Hearts and Hibs, and George is a Hibs fan - Chris I'm sure played for Hearts - the old man I believe was a Hibee too.

She also had an axe to grind with him about cup final tickets so there's no love lost either :-)

[Phil D. Rolls]

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There seems to be a fair bit of revisionism on a few threads regarding the common or garden Jambo and how much help and by how many we got during the HOH battle against Mercer. I do remember Robertson at the HOH rally at the Usher Hall but my overriding memory of it all was most of them having a right good laugh at us. IMO that was the start of the misplaced arrogance that has now come back to bite them on the arse big time. They have got themselves into this mess and for their arrogance for years I for one don't care if they ever play another game of football.

I agree, they deserve a massive fall for their arrogance, and the way they failed to heed the warnings from what went on at Hibs. Time and again, they let their inflated sense of their own worth get in the way of the sensible road - get rid of the debt, take the hit on the pitch and rebuild from there. It's ironic (well not really because it was so predictable and preventable) that they are actually worse off than they were when Romanov took over; that they will still lose their stadium - the whole basis of the original campaign to kill the Pieman.

That said, John Robertson deserves some credit for sticking up for us. I also remember his dignified behaviour during the game that followed the takeover. Other Hearts "legends" maybe didn't come out of it so well. It is the likes of them and their arrogant supporters that I want to see suffer big time.

[WindyMiller]

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There seems to be a fair bit of revisionism on a few threads regarding the common or garden Jambo and how much help and by how many we got during the HOH battle against Mercer. I do remember Robertson at the HOH rally at the Usher Hall but my overriding memory of it all was most of them having a right good laugh at us. IMO that was the start of the misplaced arrogance that has now come back to bite them on the arse big time. They have got themselves into this mess and for their arrogance for years I for one don't care if they ever play another game of football.

Even though I've bought tickets for the cup-tie, I'd happily give up the money.

[Saorsa]

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There seems to be a fair bit of revisionism on a few threads regarding the common or garden Jambo and how much help and by how many we got during the HOH battle against Mercer. I do remember Robertson at the HOH rally at the Usher Hall but my overriding memory of it all was most of them having a right good laugh at us. IMO that was the start of the misplaced arrogance that has now come back to bite them on the arse big time. They have got themselves into this mess and for their arrogance for years I for one don't care if they ever play another game of football.

and I for two.

[cocopops1875]

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and I for two.

I really feel it would be a waste of my cup top up I would cope i reckon

[Springbank]

I'd love our cup winning road to hampden to begin 2 dec : Bye

[Hibrandenburg]

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I agree, they deserve a massive fall for their arrogance, and the way they failed to heed the warnings from what went on at Hibs. Time and again, they let their inflated sense of their own worth get in the way of the sensible road - get rid of the debt, take the hit on the pitch and rebuild from there. It's ironic (well not really because it was so predictable and preventable) that they are actually worse off than they were when Romanov took over; that they will still lose their stadium - the whole basis of the original campaign to kill the Pieman.

That said, John Robertson deserves some credit for sticking up for us. I also remember his dignified behaviour during the game that followed the takeover. Other Hearts "legends" maybe didn't come out of it so well. It is the likes of them and their arrogant supporters that I want to see suffer big time.

Robbo was in two minds before he signed for Hearts. He was an out and out Hibby and the Hibs were the dominant team in Edinburgh at the time. What he went on to acheive at the team of his 2nd choice was and still is admirable. He showed class against his adopted team when Mercer was trying to kill us and for that reason alone he will always have my admiration. However the vast majority of them were already dancing on our grave and subsequently have shown no class in the years that followed the Mercer takeover bid and for that reason I can't show the same compassion the the wee man showed, I just want them dead and buried.

[edinburghhibee]

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Robbo was in two minds before he signed for Hearts. He was an out and out Hibby and the Hibs were the dominant team in Edinburgh at the time. What he went on to acheive at the team of his 2nd choice was and still is admirable. He showed class against his adopted team when Mercer was trying to kill us and for that reason alone he will always have my admiration. However the vast majority of them were already dancing on our grave and subsequently have shown no class in the years that followed the Mercer takeover bid and for that reason I can't show the same compassion the the wee man showed, I just want them dead and buried.

But he did show the compassion, never forget that

[givescotlandfreedom]

I didn't see a lot of compassion a few months ago (though have nothing particular against Robertson). Let them die.

[The Green Goblin]

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Robbo was in two minds before he signed for Hearts. He was an out and out Hibby and the Hibs were the dominant team in Edinburgh at the time. What he went on to acheive at the team of his 2nd choice was and still is admirable. He showed class against his adopted team when Mercer was trying to kill us and for that reason alone he will always have my admiration. However the vast majority of them were already dancing on our grave and subsequently have shown no class in the years that followed the Mercer takeover bid and for that reason I can't show the same compassion the the wee man showed, I just want them dead and buried.

Why didnt he sign for us? (Genuine question)

[MrSmith]

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Why didn't he sign for us? (Genuine question)

My recollection, from an article at the time, was that he had the opportunity to sign for either Hibs or Hearts. However, he was training with Hibs when his dad died. Apparently Eddie Turnbull gave him and ultimatum to sign by a specific date or don't sign at all and he did just that - didn't sign. John said he was completely devastated by his dads death and was fairly upset by Hibs demands at that point when all he wanted to do was bury his dad! And the rest, as they say ... is history!

Sketchy at best but that is my recollection.